Russia-Ukraine War 2022 - Page 257 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15230174
Drlee wrote::lol: X2


Monaco, Fiji, Vatican City, and Boy scout troop 15 from Hoboken, just to name a few. It should be noted that all of these I name do have adult supervision with the possible exception of Vatican City where, it must be admitted, the leadership tends to wear dresses more than is quite right.

:lol:
#15230201
Putin is a US plant. He is on our payroll. His attack into Ukraine is all the work of US Intelligence. Here is why we had him do it:

1. It allows us to clean up Ukraine and turn it into a strong US ally and for the bargain basement price of about $50 billion.

2. It has accomplished the goal of getting NATO members to dramatically increase its defense budget.

3. It has cause the destruction of a great deal of Russia's best front-line weaponry.

4. It has destroyed the morale of the Russian Army.

5. It is weaning the EU from Russian oil.

6. It has shown the poor performance of Russian Anti-air weaponry and depleted its supplies of ammunition.

7. It has motivated two near socialist countries to rally to NATO for protection. (And added two pretty competent fighting groups to our arsenal of democracy.

8. It has broken the Russia Turkey love fest.

9. It has destroyed Russia's diplomatic clout for a couple of generations.

10. If it weren't for the horrific civilian casualties, it would be comical to watch.

For years Putin rode horses, played at Judo and generally tried to be the worlds macho-man. Then along comes a Jewish comedian who makes him look like a pussy.
#15230206
Has Russia's 3 Day Blitzkrieg of Kyiv finished yet? Surely 3 days are over by now.
#15230226
Hey, dear victims of Western matrix disinformation campaign, is it true that you betrayed Zelensky after pushing him to poke a bear, and now you are switching to paddle on Taiwan and monkeypox in next few months?
#15230227
Drlee wrote::lol: X2


Monaco, Fiji, Vatican City, and Boy scout troop 15 from Hoboken, just to name a few. It should be noted that all of these I name do have adult supervision with the possible exception of Vatican City where, it must be admitted, the leadership tends to wear dresses more than is quite right.

I'm sorry but the idea that Monaco could have defeated the Ukrainian army is just a pathetic fantasy. it speaks to the narcissism of the West that there is this need to live in a cartoon world where the villains are always comically inept. Compare the Russian army's performance in 2022 with the performance of the British and French armies in 1939, when the bulk of the German army and air-force was deployed against Poland and they facing mainly second line divisions. And remember the French had been the most successful army over the previous 500 years.

It maybe upsetting for people to hear, but there are just very, very few armies that could have achieved what the Russian army has achieved. As I've said Putin messed up in 2014. He shouldn't have given the Ukrainians a chance to recover from the shock of the Russian nationalist uprising. He allowed Ukraine to recover recapture Mariupol and the majority of the eastern territory and then he allowed near 8 years for Ukraine to prepare for a second war.

At the beginning of the 2022 invasion the Western establishment did a very successful exercise in expectations management. So virtually any difficulties of the Russian army would be seen as a failure. Joe Biden's motto is you can't lose if you don't fight. It just failed in Afghanistan because he couldn't run away fast enough. So rather than western leadership being criticised for cowardice, everyone sits around back slapping themselves and laughing at the Russian army.

Even if Ukraine eventually recovers all its 2013 territory, who is going to pay to rebuild it? All I can say is if this is what victory looks like, God help us if we ever suffer an actual defeat.
Last edited by Rich on 28 May 2022 21:16, edited 1 time in total.
#15230238
I just read that Ukrainian army was stronger than 3/4 of NATO states armies...

Could experts from the NATO fanboy club to elaborate this topic a bit?

Ukrainian army was for sure stronger than Montenegro, Albania, Croatia...but 3/4 sounds a bit strange, right?
#15230239
Independent_Srpska wrote:I just read that Ukrainian army was stronger than 3/4 of NATO states armies...

Could experts from the NATO fanboy club to elaborate this topic a bit?

Ukrainian army was for sure stronger than Montenegro, Albania, Croatia...but 3/4 sounds a bit strange, right?

It is even comparable to Turkish army. Ukrainians have many tech things in their inventory which Turkey have not.
#15230240
Chechen rebels were asking us why we (Turkey) fear Russia in 1980s. Russia fights against entire NATO and still make gains. Since mid of 1700s, every battle between Russia and Turkey ended with Russian victory.
#15230241
Rich wrote:At the beginning of the 2022 invasion the Western establishment did a very successful exercise in expectations management.


Western leaders arguably did underplay the strength of the Ukrainian military somewhat, but then again at the start of the war Ukraine only had NATO style command & control and a bunch of Western ATGMs/MANPADs and was otherwise clearly inferior. In particular when it comes to the air force.

I mean how do you explain that the Russian air force is almost a non-factor in this war, given its huge superiority in numbers? Well the explanation is simple, Russia can't do SEAD and lacks PGMs so it has to fly low and gets into the range of MANPADs.

Rich wrote:It maybe upsetting for people to hear, but there are just very, very few armies that could have achieved what the Russian army has achieved.


You mean failing in all of its objectives so far and suffering huge losses in the process? Remember this was supposed to be a quick and clean op for regime change. Basically, Putler and co. wanted to do what America could do and failed spectacularly.

You could argue that's the fault of the political leadership and not of the military, but the top brass was probably full of it too.
#15230243
Rich wrote:I'm sorry but the idea that Monaco could have defeated the Ukrainian army is just a pathetic fantasy. it speaks to the narcissism of the West that there is this need to live in a cartoon world where the villains are always comically inept. Compare the Russian army's performance in 2022 with the performance of the British and French armies in 1939, when the bulk of the German army and air-force was deployed against Poland and they facing mainly second line divisions. And remember the French had been the most successful army over the previous 500 years.

It maybe upsetting for people to hear, but there are just very, very few armies that could have achieved what the Russian army has achieved. As I've said Putin messed up in 2014. He shouldn't have given the Ukrainians a chance to recover from the shock of the Russian nationalist uprising. He allowed Ukraine to recover recapture Mariupol and the majority of the eastern territory and then he allowed near 8 years for Ukraine to prepare for a second war.

At the beginning of the 2022 invasion the Western establishment did a very successful exercise in expectations management. So virtually any difficulties of the Russian army would be seen as a failure. Joe Biden's motto is you can't lose if you don't fight. It just failed in Afghanistan because he couldn't run away fast enough. So rather than western leadership being criticised for cowardice, everyone sits around back slapping themselves and laughing at the Russian army.

Even of Ukraine eventually recovers all its 2013 territory, who is going to pay to rebuild it? All I can say is if this is what victory looks like, God help us if we ever suffer an actual defeat.

Most military victories come at the cost of devastating losses, @Rich. Even the (European) victors of WWII weren’t in much better shape than the losers by 1945. War is a bitter, bitter thing, even if you win.

And I think it was the American withdrawal from Afghanistan (the joint work of Trump and Biden) which suckered Putin into launching his invasion of Ukraine. After all, if even a bunch of Pashtun ragheads could chase off the assembled military might of the West, then the Russian Army should have no trouble at all. Ironically, Hitler made a similar miscalculation after witnessing the poor performance of the Red Army during the Winter War. Putin should have borne that in mind.
By Rugoz
#15230244
Potemkin wrote:And I think it was the American withdrawal from Afghanistan (the joint work of Trump and Biden) which suckered Putin into launching his invasion of Ukraine. After all, if even a bunch of Pashtun ragheads could chase off the assembled military might of the West, then the Russian Army should have no trouble at all. Ironically, Hitler made a similar miscalculation after witnessing the poor performance of the Red Army during the Winter War. Putin should have borne that in mind.


The 200k strong NATO-trained Afghan army quickly folded to a bunch of Pashtun ragheads, so surely the NATO-trained (since 2014) Ukrainian army would melt away when facing the might of the Russian army!
#15230246
Rugoz wrote:The 200k strong NATO-trained Afghan army quickly folded to a bunch of Pashtun ragheads, so surely the NATO-trained (since 2014) Ukrainian army would melt away when facing the might of the Russian army!

Indeed. And Putin figured that NATO would just cut and run anyway, as they did in Afghanistan. Ironically, the Trump-Biden fiasco in Afghanistan has rebounded to the West's benefit, just as the poor showing of the Red Army against Finland in the Winter War ultimately rebounded to the Soviet Union's benefit. It induced Hitler to delete himself by invading Russia, just as Putin may have just deleted himself by invading Ukraine.
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By Beren
#15230247
Potemkin wrote: I think it was the American withdrawal from Afghanistan (the joint work of Trump and Biden) which suckered Putin into launching his invasion of Ukraine. After all, if even a bunch of Pashtun ragheads could chase off the assembled military might of the West, then the Russian Army should have no trouble at all. Ironically, Hitler made a similar miscalculation after witnessing the poor performance of the Red Army during the Winter War. Putin should have borne that in mind.

He rather (mis)calculated on a popular uprising and the disobedience/collapse of the Ukrainian military without really picking a fight.

The New Statesman wrote:More than 90 per cent of Ukrainians approve of their leader, compared with just 31 per cent before the Russian invasion.


Rugoz wrote:NATO-trained Afghan army

Bundeswehr-trained, actually.
#15230255
Igor Antunov wrote:
Because it's an easy option and a highly realistic option, it would expedite the process. Russia wouldn't be the first to employ nuclear weapons against a non nuclear state. And just like the Japanese future Ukrainians would grow to love and worship their new master, after getting fissioned and fused. Ding ding.


A highly realistic option? Nuclear war? How insane are you Igor? You better take some anti-psychotics. Anyone who actually deploys a nuclear bomb against either NATO or Russia is asking for the end of the world. WWII ended with the US dropping two atom bombs on Japan.

Japan doesn't forget what happened. It learned to never go for some cheap fascist fantasy of invading China, and other countries in Asia who STILL hate their guts to this very day. How Japan got out of its defeat has to do with the enormous sacrifices the WWII civilian Japanese population had to do for a long time.

The US government has spent a lot on foreign wars precisely because they think war is worth it. It never is.

This is not 1945 Igor. The Nukes have evolved. You throw a couple on either UK or Germany or Poland or Finland or Ukraine? Not only will it cause mass death in Ukraine it will cause mass death in Russia too. The radiation is not thousands of miles away on the other side of the Pacific as was the case for the US case of WWII against Japan.

Putin is delusional like Hitler was. He should reassess and stop the aggression. That he will? I doubt it. He is not worried about his image. He wants raw power and control of more land. He is not going to get it. Not the way he thinks he could get it. The best possible thing that fascist fuck you back can do? Is negotiate with Zelensky and paid him and his government some money so Russia has access to some port cities and the Donbas. Otherwise, it is guerrilla warfare with the Ukrainians for decades to come and Russia will become increasingly unstable and he being the old KGB stress man pendejo he is will wind up dying of some cardiac arrest and the next leader will fill the vacuum and will have to do some cleanup diplomacy to even have a semblance of control of all those loosely held ports.

I don't know who you are Igor. A foolish man for sure talking about nukes being thrown like that is somehow realistic in this day and age. Europe is not going to roll over for Russia. That is obvious. Get a grip on reality.
#15230267
Drlee wrote:1. It allows us to clean up Ukraine and turn it into a strong US ally and for the bargain basement price of about $50 billion.

Yes, and though that 50 billion could have bought mass transit for ten American cities, we will just keep driving our SUVs to the food bank over crumbling bridges.

And Ukraine will just do without a modern economy for a generation. Perhaps Russia will be a lot poorer as well.

This game the oligarchs play (war between pawns)... is worth it. Right?

Tainari88 wrote:The US government has spent a lot on foreign wars precisely because they think war is worth it. It never is.

What government? All we have is braindead virtue-signallers working for oligarchs.
By wat0n
#15230278
Beren wrote:He rather (mis)calculated on a popular uprising and the disobedience/collapse of the Ukrainian military without really picking a fight.


Indeed, but the perception of US/NATO weakness probably mattered too.

I also don't think it's a coincidence Putin responded how he did to Euromaidan after seeing the US didn't enforce its red lines on chemical weapon use in Syria.
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