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#15234390
Border Dispatch, Part I: ‘Everyone Who Arrives Here Has Paid’

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In the dangerous and volatile border towns of northern Mexico, a black market for illegal immigration is exploding.

REYNOSA, Mexico — We met Osniel at Senda de Vida, a massive migrant shelter situated on the south bank of the Rio Grande across from McAllen, Texas. The slender 23-year-old Cuban didn’t give us his last name, but did tell us he’d paid a coyote, or smuggler, $11,000 to leave his home country, transit through Central America and Mexico, and cross the border into the United States — twice.


Both times he crossed, though, he’d been arrested by Border Patrol and quickly sent back to Mexico under Title 42, the pandemic health order that allows U.S. authorities to expel illegal immigrants quickly, with minimal processing. When Osniel left Cuba in early April, Title 42 didn’t apply to Cubans. But that changed while he was en route.

On April 27, the Biden administration cut a deal with Mexico to begin expelling up to 100 Cubans and 20 Nicaraguans a day from three border facilities. For Osniel, it was just bad timing — he crossed the river on April 29.
“Title 42 was active under Donald Trump, and all this time, all this time Cubans were crossing over the river and entering with a humanitarian visa,” Osniel told me and a pair of colleagues, Emily Jashinsky and David Agren, who accompanied me recently to migrant shelters in Reynosa and Matamoros. “Now, Cubans keep trying to cross the river and they keep getting sent back.”

He said he wasn’t sure what he was going to do now. Having tried to cross the border twice, he couldn’t try again without paying the local cartel, and he had no more money. (Nearly everyone who crosses the Rio Grande in the Mexican state of Tamaulipas, where Reynosa is situated, has to pay a tax to the cartels, which have been profiting handsomely from the arrangement.) 


Early the next morning, around 2 a.m., Osniel called David in a panic. He had swam across the river, he said, but hadn’t paid, and now feared he was being pursued by cartel gunmen. He said he was hiding on the north bank of the Rio Grande.

A GPS pin on WhatsApp showed he was just outside the town of Hidalgo, Texas, not far from the international bridge. He wanted David to call the police or Border Patrol to come pick him up before the cartel found him. David got ahold of the local police but they said it was Border Patrol’s responsibility, and no one picked up the phone at the McAllen Border Patrol station that night.
Osniel’s last communication, via WhatsApp, was at 5:52 a.m. The GPS pin showed he was on the U.S. side of the border, near the riverbank. We haven’t heard from him since.

In Northern Mexico, Illegal Immigration Has Become A Vast Black Market

Over the past year, illegal immigration along the southwest border has reached historic highs, with nearly 2.5 million arrests since last April. U.S. border authorities apprehended on average more than 6,725 illegal immigrants every day in April, the highest number ever recorded. (As of this writing, U.S. Customs and Border Protection has yet to release numbers for May, which will almost certainly be higher than April’s.)


(UPDATE: CBP released May numbers on Wednesday, June 15, after press time. There were a record 239,416 encounters with illegal immigrants along the southwest border last month, the highest monthly total ever, surpassing April’s record. So far in the 2022 fiscal year, about 1.5 million illegal immigrants have been arrested by Border Patrol. With four months remaining in FY2022, border arrests are almost certain to surpass 2 million.)

Why are so many coming now? We asked that question to every migrant we spoke to in Mexico and Texas, and nearly every one of them at some point said that they had heard it was a good time to come, that they would be able to get in. They’re not wrong.

What they find upon arriving in northern Mexico, however, is not what many of them expected. For some, like Osniel, Title 42 still represents a real obstacle (although since Joe Biden took office, fewer and fewer illegal immigrants are being expelled under its authority). All of them, though, are drawn into a vast criminal enterprise run by cartels that have in recent years transformed illegal immigration into an industrialized black market. Elias Rodriguez, director of a migrant shelter run by the Catholic Diocese of Matamoros, told us bluntly that “everyone who arrives here has paid.”

Indeed, migrants transiting Mexico must not only make sure they have paid whichever cartel controls the area of the border they intend to cross, they often have to pay off Mexican officials en route to the border. More than one person told us how the bus they were on was stopped in Monterrey, or outside Reynosa, and boarded by federal or state officials who asked for everyone’s papers. Those without papers had to pay.
Setting aside the impossibility of confirming these accounts, the proof of such official corruption on a mass scale is the mere fact that hundreds of thousands of migrants arrive at northern Mexican border cities each month. They are here, and they could have gotten here only by paying their way.

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About 1,500 migrants are housed at the Senda de Vida shelter, including many families and small children.


Signs of this illegal immigration black market lurk behind nearly every individual migrant’s story. We don’t know, for example, why Osniel changed his mind about crossing the river. At the shelter, he told us he was going to wait there because it was too dangerous to leave. He said men had tried to assault him when he ventured out into Reynosa at one point, and that it wasn’t safe anywhere outside the shelter’s walls.
Maybe he realized there was no other way into the United States. Maybe he was unwilling to wait any longer at the shelter. He’d told us that he follows the news about U.S. border policy closely, so maybe he saw that a U.S. judge recently ordered the Biden administration to keep Title 42 in place instead of ending it on May 23 as planned.

Whatever changed Osniel’s mind, his plight is shared by tens of thousands of other migrants in Reynosa, Matamoros, and Mexican cities all along the border. They are caught between a black market smuggling industry run by ruthless cartels and a mercurial U.S. immigration bureaucracy that seems to adopt new policies and rules every week. 

For a certain segment of the migrant population in Mexico, that means they’re stuck. For those who can’t afford to pay the cartels, crossing the river without permission is dangerous. It’s unlikely that Osniel was actually pursued across the river by armed men, but he was lucky to slip by them in Reynosa and make it over to the north bank. In Matamoros, we were told of several migrant groups that tried to cross without paying, and cartel members actually went out into the river and forcibly returned them to the Mexican side.

Others simply refuse to cross illegally, even with the aid of cartel-affiliated smugglers. These are mostly Haitian migrants, and they make up the vast majority of those staying at the shelters in Reynosa and Matamoros. Many of them say they will not cross illegally because they fear being arrested and deported to Haiti, a country most of them left many years ago.

The vast majority of Haitian migrants now in Mexico had until recently been living legally in Chile, Brazil, and other countries in South America. Indeed, of the dozens of Haitian migrants we interviewed, not one had recently lived in Haiti, and none wanted to return there.

For these people, being deported back to Haiti — as thousands were last fall after CBP cleared the encampment near Del Rio, Texas — would be the worst possible outcome. So they wait in Mexican border towns for something to change.

One Haitian man we spoke to, Gerard Estinfils, was among a group of at least a hundred others waiting outside a migrant resource center near the international bridge in Matamoros, across from Brownsville, Texas, on a recent weekday morning, hoping to meet with a lawyer about applying for asylum in the United States.

Estinfils told us he has been in Mexico for ten months with his wife and three children, and they have no money left now. But even if they did, he said he would not pay a smuggler or a cartel to help him cross illegally. He says he and his wife have medical problems, and like some of the other Haitian migrants waiting outside the resource center that day, he hopes to get a medical exemption to enter the United States.

He might well end up getting such an exemption. We spoke to people who were recently discharged from CBP custody in Texas who had been admitted that way. But there is only so long people like Estinfils, who had been living for years in Chile before traveling north, can safely wait in these Mexican border towns. (The U.S. State Department issued a “do not travel” advisory for the entire state of Tamaulipas last June that is still in effect. It forbids U.S. government employees from traveling between cities in Tamaulipas using interior Mexican highways, citing “gun battles, murder, armed robbery, carjacking, kidnapping, forced disappearances, extortion, and sexual assault” activity along the northern Mexican border.)

All of which to say: it’s not safe for Estanfils and his family to be living in these streets, but that’s where they are for the simple reason that there are not enough shelters in these cities, and more people are arriving every day.

At Overcrowded Migrant Shelters, Confusion And Frustration Reign

The day after we met in Matamoros, Estinfils messaged me on WhatsApp. He had seen me and my colleagues at the Sende de Vida shelter in Reynosa, where he had brought his family, hitching a ride from Matamoros from “a servant of God.” He said they left Matamoros because they had no food and nowhere to stay, and were hoping to get into the shelter.

What they found at Sende de Vida was chaos, confusion, and false hope. When we arrived that same day we saw hundreds of people lined up outside the shelter, waiting to get inside. A mood of confusion and frustration prevailed.

Every person we spoke to had been waiting for days in triple-digit heat. They were under the strong impression that there was a list inside the shelter, and that if you got on that list, you would eventually be bused to the international bridge downtown and be admitted to the United States. For that reason, most of them did not want to leave the immediate vicinity of the shelter, despite a lack of food and water and housing of any kind, for fear of losing their chance to get inside and get on the list.

But it wasn’t true. There’s no such list inside the shelter. After we convinced the men guarding the heavy steel door to let us in so we could meet with Pastor Hector Silva, who runs the place, we learned that there is only a waiting list to get into the shelter, not to get into the United States. 

Silva told us that the busloads of migrants who leave his shelter every day for the United States (on average, about 120 a day) are selected by CBP with the aid of immigration lawyers and nonprofits. He says CBP officials text him daily, sometimes multiple times a day, the names of migrants who qualify for admittance under America’s byzantine immigration laws. Silva finds these people in his shelter, tests them for Covid, and lines them up in the courtyard with their possessions before loading them onto a yellow school bus and, at least on the day we were there, drives them to the international bridge himself.

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Migrants prepare to board a bus that will take them to an international bridge in Reynosa, where they will enter the United States.



The shelter is a ramshackle compound that’s become in effect a walled village, housing about 1,500 people. Children are everywhere, running and playing. The adults loiter in tents and under shaded awnings. Hundreds of tents are packed wall-to-wall in two outdoor courtyards. In Silva’s office, a small staff works ceaselessly to identify people who can be bussed out of the shelter and to the bridge, so more people outside can be admitted.

Haitians make up a majority of residents at the shelter, but many other nationalities are present too. In Silva’s office, we met a couple from Volgograd (formerly Stalingrad), Russia. They said they were journalists and fled the country after they spoke out about the war in Ukraine and were threatened by the police. They spoke no English or Spanish (we communicated through Google translate) and appeared to have no plan to get into the United States. Silva said he has had many Russians and Ukrainians come through the shelter since the spring.

The Russians, though, had this in common with nearly everyone at the shelter: none of them knew how they were going to get into the United States. I spoke to a man from Honduras, Hector, who left his home six weeks ago. His wife is already in the United States, he said, in Texas.

Like many others here, he spent what he had to pay smuggler to get him this far, and now he has no money for a lawyer. He told me he plans to stay at the shelter for two more weeks. If nothing happens, he’s going to swim across the river. 

“Everything depends on my luck,” Hector says. “Am I lucky? Okay. But I don’t know.” I ask him if he’s going to pay anyone if he decides to swim across the river.
“No,” he says, shrugging. “I don’t have any money.”

https://thefederalist.com/2022/06/16/bo ... -has-paid/


End Part 1 of 2






Border Dispatch, Part II: ‘The Cartel Controls Everything Here Now’

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The ongoing border crisis has transformed illegal immigration into an industrial-scale international smuggling black market.



MATAMOROS, Mexico —  It’s easy to find gut-wrenching stories at the border. Ask almost any migrant you meet in northern Mexico and you’ll hear about the violence and hardships they endured to get as far as they have. 

Alba Luz Perdomo, for example, fled Honduras with her husband and 13-year-old daughter after a gang killed her brother and threatened to kill them too. But that was just the beginning of their troubles.
They were forced to leave a farm where they had been working in the southern Mexican state of Tabasco by locals who told them foreigners weren’t welcome. In Monterrey, Perdomo’s daughter was nearly abducted by their landlord. They sought help from a man claiming to be a pastor in Matamoros, but who turned out to be a human trafficker and kept the family in his house for 20 days before they managed to escape. 

Now they’re living in a migrant shelter in Matamoros, just across the river from Brownsville, Texas. But they’re afraid to leave the walled compound of the shelter because the local cartel keeps trying to recruit her husband. Perdomo says she doesn’t want to cross the border illegally, but doesn’t know what to do. “I’m asking God to do something,” she says, “because this is horrible.”

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Alba Luz Perdomo recounts her family’s harrowing journey through Mexico to Matamoros.

It’s impossible not to feel sympathy for this woman and her family. Their story is shockingly commonplace among migrants stuck in Mexican border towns like Matamoros and Reynosa, where I recently traveled with a pair of colleagues, Emily Jashinsky and David Agren, to better understand the ongoing border crisis. (Read part one of this series here.)

But too often, sympathetically conveying these stories — many of which are impossible to verify — is the extent of the media’s coverage of the crisis. It makes for a compelling read and, especially when President Donald Trump was in office, a just-so morality tale complete with villains and victims and a heroic struggle for justice. For left-leaning reporters, it confirms all their prior assumptions about the anti-immigrant bigotry of Trump and his supporters, and the bravery and nobility of the migrants (and, by extension, of themselves).


Of course, such biased coverage has the effect of obscuring the causes of the crisis and clouding our understanding of how it’s playing out. But looking beyond the personal stories of hardship and suffering we usually see in the corporate press — and beyond the outrage-driven coverage we often see in conservative media — we can discern the outlines of an entire black market industry around illegal immigration that’s been created and sustained by U.S. border policy, which cartels and smugglers are using to enrich themselves at the expense of migrants and the American people alike.

Consider the story of Ramon and his wife Veronica and their two-year-old daughter. They left Nicaragua, Ramon told us, because of poverty. We spoke to them on a recent weekday afternoon at the Catholic Charities Humanitarian Respite Center in McAllen, Texas, where U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement drops off nearly everyone it discharges from federal custody in that area. They had just been released that morning along with about 70 others.

Their story, like many others on the border, is terrifying. When Ramon and Veronica and their daughter reached Reynosa, their bus was stopped at a cartel checkpoint and they were asked for a code. (When migrants pay off the cartel they get a code. That’s how the cartel keeps track of who’s paid and who hasn’t.)

They hadn’t paid and didn’t have a code, so the cartel kidnapped them and took them to a stash house with a bunch of other families. Ramon says the house had no water, no food, no electricity. They were held there 10 days, until family members back in Nicaragua were able to get together $3,000 (a thousand for each of them) and pay the “cartel tax.”

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Veronica and Ramon and their daughter at the Respite Center In McAllen, Texas.

After they paid, they were taken over the river by boat, picked up by Border Patrol, and were released a few days later on humanitarian parole. In this case, they were released on parole through a relatively recent bureaucratic innovation designed to streamline the processing of illegal border-crossers and prevent overcrowding in federal detention centers.

They say they were only asked for the address and telephone number of their destination. ICE discharged them with a sheaf of documents that allows them to travel inside the United States — which they’ll need to do, because they were also given a date, 30 days out, to report to an ICE office in central Washington State, where they’re headed.

What they don’t have is a court date or work permits. For whatever reason, their parole documents, which they showed us, did not include a work authorization number. This concerned them greatly, as it did most everyone we spoke with at the Respite Center who didn’t have work authorization.

The irony is that Ramon and Veronica, if their story is true, might actually have a compelling case for political asylum. But they seemed far less concerned with filing an asylum claim than with getting a hold of work permits.

The two are in fact connected. If you successfully file an asylum claim, you also get authorization to work in the United States while the case runs its course, which, because immigration courts are so backlogged, now takes almost five years. This is one reason so many illegal immigrants arrested after crossing the border are claiming asylum. Even if they have no chance in court, they can work in the United States in the meantime and send money to their families back home. For many migrants, that’s the ultimate purpose of crossing the border in the first place.

But there are other ways to get authorization to work besides filing an asylum claim. We spoke to a group of Haitian men at the Respite Center who had all been released under a slightly different iteration of humanitarian parole. Their paperwork differed significantly from Ramon and Veronica’s. Not only did these men have authorization to work, they had court dates for removal proceedings that were months away, some more than a year. A staff member at the Respite Center told me she had seen court dates for removal proceedings (not asylum hearings) as far out as 2026. 

The Border Has Become a Vast Criminal Enterprise

The bureaucratic morass these people are pulled into upon crossing the border is dizzying. Even for an American citizen and a native English speaker, it’s hard to follow. No wonder the reality of U.S. immigration policy gets distilled down to a few essentials on the south side of the Rio Grande.

What most migrants there believe is in fact the truth, more or less: if you can get across the Rio Grande, you will probably be allowed to stay. Under what conditions and for how long is not as important to them as crossing the border and getting released from U.S. custody, preferably with permission to work.

Because of this, smuggling networks and cartels are able to collect massive revenues from migrants, knowing that once inside the United States they will be able to earn far more than they could back home or in Mexico. That’s why, for example, the cartel that kidnapped Ramon and Veronica held them until family members back in Nicaragua came up with a cash payment of three thousand dollars.

Those family members no doubt went into debt with local loan sharks to come up with the money, as migrants’ families are often forced to do. But if Ramon and Veronica can get into the United States and start working, it will ultimately be worth it. For some migrants stuck in northern Mexico, failing to get into the United States isn’t an option; if they don’t get in and start working, their families back home will never be able to repay the loan sharks.


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Haitian migrants wait near the international bridge in Matamoros to meet with immigration lawyers.

This is dynamic now all up and down the border. Indeed, it’s hard to overstate the extent to which illegal immigration has become an industrial-scale, international smuggling black market that operates according to these incentives.

In Matamoros, Pastor Abraham Barberi, who runs one of two migrant shelters in the city, told us that back in 2019, when some 3,000 migrants were concentrated in a sprawling encampment near the international bridge, the cartel came in and made every person there pay a tax. “The cartel made a lot of money off that,” Barberi told us. “A lot of money.”

The 54-year-old pastor has been working in Matamoros for more than 20 years, and personally knows many members of the cartel here, which he says “controls everything here now,” including the police and the municipal government. Even the predominantly Haitian migrant community, we were told, has been infiltrated by the cartel as a way of keeping track of newcomers. (As if to underscore the point, a few days after we left town the cartel imposed blockades along main roads in Matamoros and set fire to a bunch of vehicles, supposedly in retaliation for the arrest of a Gulf Cartel boss.)

“They know you’re here,” Barberi tells us at one point, but quickly adds that we’re safe, not to worry. “They won’t bother you because they don’t want trouble with the U.S. government, or any foreign governments.” He says the cartel leaves him and his shelter alone, not just because they know he’s doing good work but because he’s not trying to profit off the migrants in his care.

“If we were doing something illegal with the migrants, or we were charging them to stay here, collecting money, profiting from them, the cartel would be here in a heartbeat,” he says, snapping his fingers for emphasis. “They would want a part of it. But they know we’re not doing that. I have asked the coyotes [smugglers] please, don’t do business here, do it over there. And they respect that.”

At the same time, Barberi adds, when the cartel-affiliated smugglers want customers, they know where to find them. “In a sense, their business is right here. They don’t have to go around looking for them.”
It’s not just cartels in border towns that see migrants as potential “customers,” it’s also Mexican officials in the country’s interior. Miguel, a Salvadoran taxi driver who came to Reynosa with his wife and three kids, relayed a common story we heard from others in the shelters: that on the bus ride north, when they reached Monterrey, uniformed and armed federal agents boarded the bus and asked everyone for their papers. Miguel and his family had none, so the agents demanded payment.

Variations of this story are common. Sometimes it’s not federal agents but state police or cartel gunmen. What emerges, though, is a picture of official corruption at every level of Mexican society that enables hundreds of thousands of migrants to transit through Mexico each month and arrive at the U.S.-Mexico border. It’s a massive and lucrative business.

Every aspect of illegal immigration has been monetized, including information — and often outright misinformation. Barberi told us he found out recently that his name, address, and phone number were being sold for a thousand dollars in Central and South America by people claiming that if migrants could just get to Barberi’s shelter in Matamoros, he would take them across the border. 

Now, Barberi tells arriving migrants right away that no one at his shelter is going to take anyone across the border. Often, he says, they also think there’s a list they can get on to get into the United States. Barberi tells them there is no list, it doesn’t exist. He says he wishes the U.S. government would make a video explaining all this and post it to social media, to deter people from coming. He has repeatedly asked the U.S. consulate to do this, to no avail.

But even if such a video or PR campaign existed, it would be going up against the personal testimony of hundreds of thousands of people who are crossing the border illegally and being released into the United States every month. There is nothing the Biden administration can say, no message it can send, that refutes the tangible results of its policies: people are getting in, and they are staying.
The Respite Center where we met Ramon and Veronica only allows migrants to stay 24 hours. Hundreds of people churn through there every day. Even those like Ramon and Veronica, who said they had no money left to travel to Washington state, will soon move on, somehow. Veronica told us they were “waiting to see what will happen,” that a friend in Washington might loan them the money for airfare, and that throughout their ordeal, “We have always trusted in an all-powerful God.”

https://thefederalist.com/2022/06/21/bo ... -here-now/

End Part 2 of 2

John Daniel Davidson is a senior editor at The Federalist. His writing has appeared in the Wall Street Journal, the Claremont Review of Books, The New York Post, and elsewhere. Follow him on Twitter, @johnddavidson.
#15234461
My solution? Stabilize the nations that these people come from. An all out international effort to stabilize nations that have people who are fleeing due to various reasons.

The main one is lack of adequate pay and living wages and crime being rampant. Work on those two in all the nations getting people on the border in Mexico and you solve the problem.

As for the cartels in Mexico? I wish they would kill every single one of those sons of bitches. I hate them and they only have brought disgrace and fear and blood and death and stagnation to Mexico. FUCK THOSE CARTELS and if anyone deserves violence it is they!

They are the ultimate pro-capitalists though. They are motivated by profit only. They can go to hell those disgraceful murderers and exploiters and human traffickers. But the US drug addicts and love of drugs are also the other side of the coin too. Stop doing drugs in the USA. You got too many drug addicts!
#15234577
Just a wry observation -- now that the pandemic's officially over, wouldn't that make Title 42 *moot* -- ?

Obviously the de-facto is a *workaround* at best, and the world's patchwork nation-state system is ultimately behind this festering, unresolvable problem of 'borders'. (Capital doesn't suffer from the same problem of borders.)

Also, I thought that conservatives and such were *all for* the 'free market', so where's the problem here -- ? Why aren't you *cheering* the coyotes, BS -- ?
#15234579
Really, if one thinks about it for a moment, the border situation is turning into a de-facto 'War on Immigrants', like the government 'War on Drugs', meaning that the ruling paradigm for [1] civil society is War-on-Drugs, for [2] foreign policy it's War-on-Terrorism, and for the geographic in-between, borders, it's [3] War-on-Immigration.
#15234590
ckaihatsu wrote:Just a wry observation -- now that the pandemic's officially over, wouldn't that make Title 42 *moot* -- ?

Obviously the de-facto is a *workaround* at best, and the world's patchwork nation-state system is ultimately behind this festering, unresolvable problem of 'borders'. (Capital doesn't suffer from the same problem of borders.)

Also, I thought that conservatives and such were *all for* the 'free market', so where's the problem here -- ? Why aren't you *cheering* the coyotes, BS -- ?




Why would I cheer coyotes? Do you have any concept of national borders and national sovereignty?

Do you understand the negative ramifications of this UNCONTROLLED migration on both those coming here and those who already live here?

Don't tell us it's unsolvable. It's highly solvable.
#15234593
BlutoSays wrote:
Why would I cheer coyotes? Do you have any concept of national borders and national sovereignty?

Do you understand the negative ramifications of this UNCONTROLLED migration on both those coming here and those who already live here?

Don't tell us it's unsolvable. It's highly solvable.



So, according to *you*, this is all 'non-economic', and the 'solution' is some kind of paramilitary conservative-fascism. Got it.

It's going to be interesting to see what you say about what's 'economic', and what's 'political'.
#15234603
ckaihatsu wrote:So, according to *you*, this is all 'non-economic', and the 'solution' is some kind of paramilitary conservative-fascism. Got it.

It's going to be interesting to see what you say about what's 'economic', and what's 'political'.


Of course it's economic, except to leftists who say "Oh, they're just here for asylum because they are in danger in their country."

Close the border, ENFORCE the laws on the books. They already get economic aid from the U.S., but enough is enough fer chrissake.

We are promoting this behavior by having wide open borders with no controls. We have our own problems in this country and you idiots want to give away the store.
#15234607

In June 2020, Los Angeles County Deputy Sheriff Austreberto "Art" Gonzalez filed a claim against the county, claiming that approximately twenty percent of the deputies operating in the county's Compton Station belonged to a secret death squad. Gonzales alleges that the group, named "The Executioners", carried out multiple extrajudicial killings over the years and that members followed initiation rituals, including being tattooed with skulls and Nazi imagery.[38][39][40]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_squad#United_States



And:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_squ ... al_America
#15234610
BlutoSays wrote:
Of course it's economic, except to leftists who say "Oh, they're just here for asylum because they are in danger in their country."



The very *article* that you posted documents the deadly difficulties that migrants face -- did you even *read* it?


BlutoSays wrote:
Close the border, ENFORCE the laws on the books. They already get economic aid from the U.S., but enough is enough fer chrissake.

We are promoting this behavior by having wide open borders with no controls. We have our own problems in this country and you idiots want to give away the store.



I mean that it's economic to *migrants*.

By being so ultra-nationalistic you're effectively saying that nationalist *borders* should supersede the economic interests of migrants from all over the world.

I find it *arbitrary* as to what you're favoring, economically and politically -- one can't say '[economic] free markets' and then flip-over to being so nationalist-*political* on this issue / matter. Why aren't you championing 'free' international *labor markets* in this instance? Where are you even *coming from* with your politics -- ?
#15234611
ckaihatsu wrote:The very *article* that you posted documents the deadly difficulties that migrants face -- did you even *read* it?





I mean that it's economic to *migrants*.

By being so ultra-nationalistic you're effectively saying that nationalist *borders* should supersede the economic interests of migrants from all over the world.

I find it *arbitrary* as to what you're favoring, economically and politically -- one can't say '[economic] free markets' and then flip-over to being so nationalist-*political* on this issue / matter. Why aren't you championing 'free' international *labor markets* in this instance? Where are you even *coming from* with your politics -- ?


They don't face it if they don't make the trip in the first place. How fucking thick are you?

I'm "ultra-nationalistic" because I don't want millions of people flowing in uncontrolled without a penny to their name? Get the fuck outta here.

Arbitrary is allowing illegal aliens on our southern border jump the line, while everyone else is expected to follow immigration rules and processes. We have LIMITED resources and as you term them "social safety nets". Nothing is infinite FFS.
#15234617
BlutoSays wrote:
They don't face it if they don't make the trip in the first place. How fucking thick are you?

I'm "ultra-nationalistic" because I don't want millions of people flowing in uncontrolled without a penny to their name? Get the fuck outta here.

Arbitrary is allowing illegal aliens on our southern border jump the line, while everyone else is expected to follow immigration rules and processes. We have LIMITED resources and as you term them "social safety nets". Nothing is infinite FFS.



Really? You're going to make the 'funding' claim? In the country that's #1 or #2 in the *world*, economically -- ?

And here you're pitting one section of migrants against another, as though it's just too bureaucratically challenging to extend asylum to everyone.

Remember *this* -- ?


If you successfully file an asylum claim, you also get authorization to work in the United States while the case runs its course, which, because immigration courts are so backlogged, now takes almost five years. This is one reason so many illegal immigrants arrested after crossing the border are claiming asylum. Even if they have no chance in court, they can work in the United States in the meantime and send money to their families back home. For many migrants, that’s the ultimate purpose of crossing the border in the first place.
#15234620
ckaihatsu wrote:Really? You're going to make the 'funding' claim? In the country that's #1 or #2 in the *world*, economically -- ?

And here you're pitting one section of migrants against another, as though it's just too bureaucratically challenging to extend asylum to everyone.

Remember *this* -- ?



First of all, many do not return for their asylum hearings.

What are you arguing about. I agree - IT'S ECONOMIC. Do you not understand that you and I are in agreement on that??? I've said that from day one.

Secondly, we are NOT #1 or #2 in the world economically. We're mortgaged to the hilt. Our balance sheet is shit. Are you this fucking dumb with these inane arguments?


Chris. Stop. Quit while you're behind.


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#15234627
BlutoSays wrote:
First of all, many do not return for their asylum hearings.



Again, I don't see why you're arguing for the nationalist *entity*, over people's actual lives. What *is* a country, anyway, if not for the sake-of / because-of, the people themselves?


History, Macro-Micro -- simplified

Spoiler: show
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BlutoSays wrote:
What are you arguing about. I agree - IT'S ECONOMIC. Do you not understand that you and I are in agreement on that??? I've said that from day one.



But you're not seeing it as economic from the *migrants'* side of things. Why is investment capital allowed to zip across the border, digitally, but actual people *cannot*?


BlutoSays wrote:
Secondly, we are NOT #1 or #2 in the world economically. We're mortgaged to the hilt. Our balance sheet is shit. Are you this fucking dumb with these inane arguments?


Chris. Stop. Quit while you're behind.


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Relax -- it's all *relative*. Here's about the U.S.:



123.4%

U.S. debt-to-GDP for Q4 2021—almost double early 2008 levels but down from the all-time high of 135.9% seen in Q2 2020.3

The U.S. has had a debt-to-GDP over 77% since 1Q 2009. To put these figures into perspective, the U.S.’s highest debt-to-GDP ratio was previously 106% at the end of World War II, in 1946.43



https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debtgdpratio.asp
#15234664
The *arbitrariness* of nationalist politics is on full display here -- if one is for 'minimal government', then reasonably one would expect that 'small government' principle to be *across-the-board*, so that it's not 'big government' for *some* things, while 'minimal' government for *other* things.

Obviously any political 'principles' a nationalist has about social policy like immigration are either nationalist by default, or else are *politicized* by nationalism, back into the regular left-right political spectrum.

This is all to say that minimal-state-type politics is *not* principled (to a strictly 'minimal' nation-state), because nationalist politics *does* take sides when it comes to government involvement, like any other kind of politics -- a strong state force ('big government') is called for when it comes to national borders, but not when it comes to social 'externalities' like poverty, wages, racism, sexism, etc.
#15234774
BlutoSays wrote:First of all, many do not return for their asylum hearings.

What are you arguing about. I agree - IT'S ECONOMIC. Do you not understand that you and I are in agreement on that??? I've said that from day one.

Secondly, we are NOT #1 or #2 in the world economically. We're mortgaged to the hilt. Our balance sheet is shit. Are you this fucking dumb with these inane arguments?


Chris. Stop. Quit while you're behind.


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Lukers, I have explained this here for years now.

The US national debt is not really a debt. This because it can never be repaid, it can only be rolled over by paying off old bonds with money borrowed from new lenders.**

It can't be paid off or paid down much because taxing to have a surplus to pay off bonds as they come due with real money, has always caused a depression (according to Ray Dalio, a well known economic expert and billionaire, see my thread with that name in the title). In every case, except in about 1826, the resulting depression dropped tax receipts and increased spending enough to end the surplus.***

I have asked here and on other sites, for anyone to propose a plan to pay off the national debt with tax revenue dollars when there is a surplus. No one has proposed a plan. One guy said that he is sure that it can be done, but he had no plan. A few months ago I saw where Ray Dalio agreed that it is impossible.

So, I assert that "national debt" is just the name given to the account on the US Gov's books for the amount of money spent that has not yet been taxed back from the people. Stephanie Kelton explains this in many of her videos. She gives 100 token to the audience and taxes back 90 of them. Where are the other 10 now? Still in the hands of the people as "assets". With real dollars, these dollars are as spendable as all other dollars. A dollar is a dollar.

A debt that is never to be paid off is not really a debt. In a pinch the US can sell bonds to the Fed, like it did in WWII to no bad effects. If the US can't sell bonds, this will be because of other problems.

Yes, too much deficit spending can cause inflation. We can deal with the inflation if it happens, when it happens. Note BTW -- the current inflation was caused by shortages caused by the pandemic, and now it is continued by corps choosing to get higher profits as a percentage of sales by increasing prices, when they have monopoly pricing power.

If you have a plan to pay off the US national debt, please, tell us about it.


** . Like I said, in a pinch the US can sell bonds to the Fed to made the payments to holders of old bonds. To not do this will cause chaos in the world's markets and the rich would rather see inflation than chaos.

*** . In about 1826 the US did finally pay off its debts from the Revolutionary War. This did cause the worst depression in US history by most accounts. It lasted until we started a war with Mexico about 20 years later. And then there was the 1849 gold rush that flooded the nation with gold dollars.
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#15234782
ckaihatsu wrote:Again, I don't see why you're arguing for the nationalist *entity*, over people's actual lives. What *is* a country, anyway, if not for the sake-of / because-of, the people themselves?

America exists to serve the interests of Americans, first and foremost. It's not a charity development project for all 7 billion people in the world.

I'm not an American. If it were up to me my country would only allow immigrants and refugees that could support themselves financially to an adequate level, and then help locate the other refugees who don't qualify to a safe country that better matches their economic/education situation. Cities in my country have poor areas where the children of impoverished migrants join gangs, shoot innocent people, deal drugs, steal cars etc. How is this in my interests? Why would I agree to policies that make the cities in my country less safe? Politicians don't have the balls to make such reasonable decisions though. They'll be called racists.
#15234789
Unthinking Majority wrote:
America exists to serve the interests of Americans, first and foremost. It's not a charity development project for all 7 billion people in the world.

I'm not an American. If it were up to me my country would only allow immigrants and refugees that could support themselves financially to an adequate level, and then help locate the other refugees who don't qualify to a safe country that better matches their economic/education situation. Cities in my country have poor areas where the children of impoverished migrants join gangs, shoot innocent people, deal drugs, steal cars etc. How is this in my interests? Why would I agree to policies that make the cities in my country less safe? Politicians don't have the balls to make such reasonable decisions though. They'll be called racists.



Oh, right, you're the 'blank slate' guy, and the world just started *yesterday*, and everyone is 'even' with each other.

Here in the *real world* there's *reasons* why many people from South and Central America risk their lives to make it to the U.S. job market / economy, *and* there's history behind it, too. (See the article in the O.P.)



Participation of the United States in regime change in Latin America involved US-backed coups d'état aimed at replacing left-wing leaders with right-wing leaders, military juntas, or authoritarian regimes.[1] Lesser intervention of economic and military variety was prevalent during the Cold War in line with the Truman Doctrine of containment, but regime change involvement would increase after the drafting of NSC 68 which advocated for more aggressive combating of potential Soviet allies.[2]

Several instances of intervention and regime change occurred during the early-20th-century "Banana Republic" era of Latin American history to promote American business interests in the region.[1] United States influenced regime change in this period of Latin American history



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... in_America

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