Russia-Ukraine War 2022 - Page 308 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15235258
wat0n wrote: [...]No, Ukraine should give up the Donbass because of its pro-Russian population.
[...]
If the people in the Donbass want to be Russian, let them be. Ukraine has a good chance to become more stable and functional in the long run as a result.

Problem is only 38 percent of the Donbas are russian speakers, and not even all of them wanted to belong to Russia. All else is russian maskirovka and Putin' agents provocateurs generating unrest and terrorist action in Donbas, then blaming it on Ukraine, and then coming to "help" the "poor suppressed russians". Age-old lame trick. Putin has btw openly admitted that, and not only once. He is effectively laughing in your face.

As soon as he has the Donbas and the south he will go on trying to get "the rest". No peace negotiation possible; Russia will never give up the southern part of Ukraine with Mariupol etc. voluntarily.
Either force Russia out or give up Ukraine as a whole. NATO has to send toops, an the longer it waits the more people will die.

Donbas has been reduced to rubble, even the most russiophile deported former inhabitants know what Russia did and does there, Russia has made this an un-inhabitable area for decades to come.
Again I wonder what the Donbas will become. Test area for russian nuclear bombs? It already looks like it.

"The mayor of the Ukrainian city of Severodonetsk says the city is completely in the hands of the Russians. This is what the fledging mayor Stryuk says on Ukrainian television. According to the mayor, people who are still in Severodonetsk cannot just leave. They can only go to areas under the control of Russia. It is believed that about 10,000 people are still in the city, which previously had a population of 100,000."
Last edited by Wels on 26 Jun 2022 12:21, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Wels
#15235262
Only minor events in the war

"Major Крот Владимир Николаевич (Krot Vladimir Nikolaevich) 59 year, Su-25 pilot, died in the air crash on June 21 near Mankovo-Kalitvenskoe, Rostov. In 1998, he finished his flying career. After the start of the war, he decided to return to active service. https://vk.com/wall-146757891_22577"

"Ukrainian forces have reportedly struck and destroyed another Russian ammunition depot in occupied Luhansk. Successful attacks far behind the front lines have become increasingly common as Ukraine has acquired more long-range artillery from the country’s international partners"
Russia is also becoming scarce of ammunition, several intelligence report. The firing of all those cruise missiles from Belarus into Ukraine also supports this. (51°58′N 29°9′E Air Forces command: Over 50 missiles were launched last night into Ukraine, including Iskander missiles launched from Belarus)

Lukashenko has said Lithuania has declared war against Russia due to the Kaliningrad blockade. No one takes this serious anyway but after Lukashenko's help and since Belarus is theoretically an independent (lmao of course) country, some nations might react to this help, like declare war at Belarus.
#15235263
Beren wrote:You see it in that way because you only see what's happening right before your eyes.


Do i though? I said that Severodonetsk served its purpose.
User avatar
By Beren
#15235265
JohnRawls wrote:Do i though? I said that Severodonetsk served its purpose.

It served its purpose indeed, so now that Ukraine's an EU candidate it could be given up.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15235266
Beren wrote: Russians consenting to Ukraine's EU candidate status


DO you have a source for this part?

wat0n wrote:No, Ukraine should give up the Donbass because of its pro-Russian population.


There's a difference between being culturally Russian, and pro-russia. The two should not be confounded.

The Donbas isn't full of Russians only to start with. Many of those want to stay Ukrainian as well. It's not so simple as Russians belong to Russia and thus all good.
Last edited by Rancid on 25 Jun 2022 22:46, edited 1 time in total.
#15235267
Beren wrote:It served its purpose indeed, so now that Ukraine's an EU candidate it could be given up.


You have no understanding at all how Ukraine in its people are right now. This is a really stupid preposition with the current public and political opinion within the country.
User avatar
By Beren
#15235268
Rancid wrote:DO you have a source for this part?

Nobody has a source for this, but the Russians didn't seem to do anything against it and they publicly agreed to it. They didn't even use Orbán to do something about it. :lol:

JohnRawls wrote:You have no understanding at all how Ukraine in its people are right now. This is a really stupid preposition with the current public and political opinion within the country.

Oh, yes, they'll have to work on the public opinion and Zelensky will lose some of his popularity for sure, but the majority will swallow it.
By wat0n
#15235271
Rugoz wrote:There's a difference between temporary and permament displacement.


I'll be surprised if this displacement is anything but permanent.

Rugoz wrote:Who said the people in Donbas want to be Russians? Certainly not true for the Ukrainian part and questionable for the "Russian part".

This debate is pointless anyway. Ukraine ceding the Russian part of Donbas would have zero effect on this war. Ceding the Ukrainian part would just free up Russian forces to conduct offensives in the South.


Certainly this is part of a peace agreement and not to be done unilaterally.

Wels wrote:Problem is only 38 percent of the Donbas are russian speakers, and not even all of them wanted to belong to Russia. All else is russian maskirovka and Putin' agents provocateurs generating unrest and terrorist action in Donbas, then blaming it on Ukraine, and then coming to "help" the "poor suppressed russians". Age-old lame trick. Putin has btw openly admitted that, and not only once. He is effectively laughing in your face.

As soon as he has the Donbas and the south he will go on trying to get "the rest". No peace negotiation possible; Russia will never give up the southern part of Ukraine with Mariupol etc. voluntarily.
Either force Russia out or give up Ukraine as a whole. NATO has to send toops, an the longer it waits the more people will die.

Donbas has been reduced to rubble, even the most russiophile deported former inhabitants know what Russia did and does there, this is inhabitable area for decades to come.

"The mayor of the Ukrainian city of Severodonetsk says the city is completely in the hands of the Russians. This is what the fledging mayor Stryuk says on Ukrainian television. According to the mayor, people who are still in Severodonetsk cannot just leave. They can only go to areas under the control of Russia. It is believed that about 10,000 people are still in the city, which previously had a population of 100,000."


Indeed, Putin has turned the area into a shithole. Let him keep it, but only as part of a peace agreement.

And no, no territory that Russia hasn't taken should be given. If they want it, they better be willing to give up land around the Kherson area.

Yet Ukraine should still not insist on the Donbass, because its wish could be granted.

Rancid wrote:There's a difference between being culturally Russian, and pro-russia. The two should not be confounded.

The Donbas isn't full of Russians only to start with. Many of those want to stay Ukrainian as well. It's not so simple as Russians belong to Russia and thus all good.


Do we know what the people in Lugansk and Donetsk want? Those two are not democracies at this point, but "popular republics". I don't trust them to do an election and I don't think Ukraine can force them. And Putin may demand them to be autonomous, yet still have a strong voice in the Ukrainian national government.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15235275
Beren wrote:they publicly agreed to it.


How is this publicly agreeing? :?:
https://news.yahoo.com/russia-eu-candid ... 03501.html

wat0n wrote:Do we know what the people in Lugansk and Donetsk want?


At this point it's impossible to know. What we do know is Russia is using them as cannon fodder, that's about it. Ukrainians do not want to give it up and should not be forced to under the barrel of Putin's gun. It should be Ukraine and the people of that region talking without meddling Putin. Anything else, is in support of imperialism.
Last edited by Rancid on 25 Jun 2022 23:14, edited 1 time in total.
#15235278
Be dee dee dee beep beep beep URGENT NEWS Be dee dee dee beep beep beep

Putin urgently came to the Kremlin, the reason is unknown.

The cortege with Vladimir Putin arrived at the Kremlin at 23:00. pic.twitter.com/gnv87nPfwz
— ZOKA (@200_zoka) June 25, 2022



Did he have to take a massive dump and was prairie-doggin' or was it something even more serious?
Yelling in motorcade was heard saying "Driver! FASTER! I'm crowning! "


Be dee dee dee beep beep beep URGENT NEWS Be dee dee dee beep beep beep

Image

#15235281
Rancid wrote:At this point it's impossible to know. What we do know is Russia is using them as cannon fodder, that's about it. Ukrainians do not want to give it up and should not be forced to under the barrel of Putin's gun. It should be Ukraine and the people of that region talking without meddling Putin. Anything else, is in support of imperialism.


It should be up to the Ukrainians, and I hope for their own sake they will not take this trojan horse.
#15235340
Wels wrote:Nato will likely react to Putin stationing nuclear arms in Belarus. Maybe it has.


NATO stations nuclear weapons all around Belarus. US can react by crying harder.


Wanna hear a joke?

Zelensky: we need more long-range missiles

Putin: heading your way

ha ha ha
#15235355
Igor Antunov wrote:NATO stations nuclear weapons all around Belarus. US can react by crying harder.

Not exactly true, there are nuclear weapons only in Russia around Belarus actually, but Russian cry babies will outcry them anyway. They're so much annoyed all the time.

ImageClick on map for source

What's the use of lying so blatantly and unscrupulously when it's so easy to check? Do you think anyone takes whatever you say at face value here? :?:
User avatar
By Beren
#15235360
Istanbuller wrote:Russia reached its secondary objectives as of yesterday. Let's see if they will keep continue or they will stop as Beren pointed out previously.

That's not what I pointed out exactly. I'd expect the war to practically end during the summer, and that's it.
#15235361
Beren wrote:That's not what I pointed out exactly. I'd expect the war to practically end during the summer, and that's it.

Anyway, congratulations to our Russian friends. Let's have more blows on NATO hopefully.
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