Krugman on Putin - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By late
#15215292
"Before the invasion it was common to talk about how Putin had created “fortress Russia,” an economy immune to economic sanctions, by accumulating a huge war chest of foreign currency reserves. Now, however, such talk seems naïve. What, after all, are foreign reserves? They aren’t bags of cash. For the most part they consist of deposits in overseas banks and holdings of other governments’ debt — that is, assets that can be frozen if most of the world is united in revulsion against a rogue government’s military aggression.

Before Putin invaded Ukraine, I might have described the Russian Federation as a medium-size power punching above its weight in part by exploiting Western divisions and corruption, in part by maintaining a powerful military. Since then, however, two things have become clear. First, Putin has delusions of grandeur. Second, Russia is even weaker than most people, myself included, seem to have realized.

But Russia is looking less and less like an advanced nation.

The truth is that I was being generous in describing Russia as even a medium-size power. Britain and France are medium-size powers; Russia’s gross domestic product is only a bit more than half as large as either’s. It seemed remarkable that such an economically underweight state could support a world-class, highly sophisticated military — and maybe it couldn’t.

That’s not to deny that the force ravaging Ukraine has immense firepower, and it may well take Kyiv. But I wouldn’t be surprised if post-mortems on the Ukraine war eventually show that there was a lot more rot at the heart of Putin’s military than anyone realized."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/28/opinion/putin-military-sanctions-weakness.html
By Torus34
#15215741
The biggest guns in the war between Russia, Ukraine, and 'the West' are economic.

Regards, stay safe 'n well 'n remember the Big 5.
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By BlutoSays
#15235397
Image
#15235399
Krugman is a bad economist. He is not good at explaining things. If you look at from Keynesian concepts like GDP, you can't explain things. GDP fails explaining many things. Military power is just of one of them. It is sure that it undercalculates nation's economic well being since it just takes spending in calculation while ignoring saving.
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By Rancid
#15235417
late wrote:That’s not to deny that the force ravaging Ukraine has immense firepower, and it may well take Kyiv. But I wouldn’t be surprised if post-mortems on the Ukraine war eventually show that there was a lot more rot at the heart of Putin’s military than anyone realized."


A military's structure and culture is always a reflection of the nation's political system. If the system is corrupt and doesn't care about its citizens. The military will equally be corrupt and not care about its soldiers.
By late
#15235424
Istanbuller wrote:
Krugman is a bad economist. He is not good at explaining things.

If you look at from Keynesian concepts like GDP, you can't explain things. GDP fails explaining many things.

Military power is just of one of them.

It is sure that it undercalculates nation's economic well being since it just takes spending in calculation while ignoring saving.



Works for me.

No one metric does it all.

"William Petty came up with a basic concept of GDP to attack landlords against unfair taxation during warfare between the Dutch and the English between 1654 and 1676.[10] Charles Davenant developed the method further in 1695.[11] The modern concept of GDP was first developed by Simon Kuznets for a 1934 US Congress report, where he warned against its use as a measure of welfare (see below under limitations and criticisms).[12] After the Bretton Woods conference in 1944, GDP became the main tool for measuring a country's economy."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product

All of which was before Krugmans time..

Actually, the % of GDP spent on the military tells us a lot.

"Definition: Gross Domestic Saving is GDP minus final consumption expenditure. It is expressed as a percentage of GDP."
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/de ... tic-saving
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By Rancid
#15235502
GDP is not a good metric for overall wealth and health of a population. However, in terms of discussion around military and social expenditures, it's a every good metric. Of course though, you have to be careful with the types of conclusions you draw from such data, and will need to dig deeper in more data if you want to get down to some more specific conclusions.
By wat0n
#15235511
I disagree. GDP per capita correlates well with several quality of life/living standards measures... It's not bad at all. Imperfect, yes, but not bad.
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By QatzelOk
#15235645
Krugman - like a lot of well-paid journalists - tends to write from the vantage point of his own in-group.

This isn't very useful for the 99% of readers who belong to other groups who his in-group preys on.

Rancid wrote:A military's structure and culture is always a reflection of the nation's political system. If the system is corrupt and doesn't care about its citizens. The military will equally be corrupt and not care about its soldiers.


This is appropriate when talking about North America. We all live in barracks and drive tanks, and our media keeps us full of hate for the nations that our bombs target.

At some point, a nation needs to realize it's not really a nation - just a military occupying land and scaring its soldiers into constant combat.
By late
#15235654
wat0n wrote:
I disagree. GDP per capita correlates well with several quality of life/living standards measures... It's not bad at all. Imperfect, yes, but not bad.



Growing income inequality is lowering quality of life metrics.
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By QatzelOk
#15235786
Paul Krugman wrote:But Russia is looking less and less like an advanced nation.


Russia has almost twice as many doctors per capita as the USA, and has the same number of high speed rail km as the USA (zero).

Most urban Russians live in apartment blocks linked to mass transit, which is cheap.

Most Americans drive giant pickups hundreds of miles each day just to survive.

What a great way to burn off the world's remaining petroleum products.
By late
#15235788
QatzelOk wrote:
Russia has almost twice as many doctors per capita as the USA

Most urban Russians live in apartment blocks linked to mass transit, which is cheap.

Most Americans drive giant pickups hundreds of miles each day just to survive.

What a great way to burn off the world's remaining petroleum products.



Russian health care is horrible.

Ahh, yes, apartments built by the USSR. Also horrible.

Since you mentioned mass transit, there are little old ladies sitting next to the entrance of subways selling double shots of vodka. If I had to live there, I'd buy 2.

You've got a point there, but I am hoping the high price of gas changes that.
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By QatzelOk
#15235795
late wrote:Russian health care is horrible.

Ahh, yes, apartments built by the USSR. Also horrible.

Since you mentioned mass transit, there are little old ladies sitting next to the entrance of subways selling double shots of vodka. If I had to live there, I'd buy 2.

You've got a point there, but I am hoping the high price of gas changes that.

My point was that Paul Krugman calls Russia "backwards" while sitting behind the wheel of a Dodge Ram eating a hamburger out of the bag.
By late
#15235803
QatzelOk wrote:
My point was that Paul Krugman calls Russia "backwards" while sitting behind the wheel of a Dodge Ram eating a hamburger out of the bag.



Russia is backwards, and he's far too intelligent to buy a Dodge Ram.

Chrysler products are crap.

He likes to bike to work, he has a car, but the only info I could find on that was nearly 20 years old.
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By QatzelOk
#15235806
late wrote:Russia is backwards.

You would need to be "way ahead" to be a judge of that.

Having the latest car or phone is a very materialistic, ethnocentric and hyper-commercial way of viewing "advancement."

Our brains have been fried by propaganda in ways that haven't sapped the Russian mind.
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By Beren
#15235843
QatzelOk wrote:Our brains have been fried by propaganda in ways that haven't sapped the Russian mind.

Sure, they're still god's innocent children. Or sheeple.
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By BlutoSays
#15236231
late wrote:We are way ahead.


What would Bernie say? :lol:
By late
#15236232
BlutoSays wrote:
What would Bernie say?



Same.

I'd ask you to be less pathetic, but that's a non-starter.

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