Gunman kills 19 children in Texas school shooting - Page 32 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15235309
Rancid wrote:Where are we on raising the gun buying age to 21?

The liquor store in my town used to also be a hardware store, but Walmart put the hardware section out of business before pulling out of the town, so now they are only a liquor store.

I'm thinking of starting a liquor/gun store.

You want to invest in it?
#15235312
The best way to deal with these shooters is to kill them. That is unless there is some opportunity to stop them from killing lots of people, like deescalation training, banning assault and other semi-automatic weapons, and strict licensing.
#15235313
Drlee wrote:The best way to deal with these shooters is to kill them. That is unless there is some opportunity to stop them from killing lots of people, like deescalation training, banning assault and other semi-automatic weapons, and strict licensing.


Sure, but the cops that could have killed the guy before the shooter entered the school, didn't engage like the pussies they are.

Other steps need to be taken to simply understand what produces people that even want to do this. It's mostly young males, so clearly, we are fucking up to raise out young boys/men.
#15235335
The reaction by police finds me greatly distrustful of anything done by cops in terms of preventing or stopping mass murders.

Punitive measures against mass shooters are ineffective since most of them are doing this as a messy and headline-seeking way of committing suicide,

Fortification of schools does not work, as Uvalde unfortunately shows us, since they spent a fair amount of money on doing just that before this tragedy.

Taking away all the guns would help insofar as it would make potential mass murderers decide on other weapons which would often be less lethal. Having said that, there are very good reasons for wanting an armed populace.

Getting a more robust mental health system is a good idea, but not for this reason. Many people desperately need better mental health treatment, but such a vanishingly tiny percentage will ever go on to be mass murderers that it does not make sense to see this as a solution. Moreover, most mass murders do not present with mental illness symptoms before the mass murder.

As far as I can tell, the only remaining option is to place psychologists and social workers in schools and, as well as providing other needed services, look for the signs that could point to a potential problem.
#15235338
Pants-of-dog wrote:The reaction by police finds me greatly distrustful of anything done by cops in terms of preventing or stopping mass murders.

Punitive measures against mass shooters are ineffective since most of them are doing this as a messy and headline-seeking way of committing suicide,


Indeed, but would de-escalation work?

Pants-of-dog wrote:Fortification of schools does not work, as Uvalde unfortunately shows us, since they spent a fair amount of money on doing just that before this tragedy.


No, they didn't. We know that because the school fence is merely 4 ft tall, there's no buzzing in, etc.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Taking away all the guns would help insofar as it would make potential mass murderers decide on other weapons which would often be less lethal. Having said that, there are very good reasons for wanting an armed populace.

Getting a more robust mental health system is a good idea, but not for this reason. Many people desperately need better mental health treatment, but such a vanishingly tiny percentage will ever go on to be mass murderers that it does not make sense to see this as a solution. Moreover, most mass murders do not present with mental illness symptoms before the mass murder.

As far as I can tell, the only remaining option is to place psychologists and social workers in schools and, as well as providing other needed services, look for the signs that could point to a potential problem.


Ok, I think this is reasonable for once. But what happens if someone from outside the school attacks it? Can you even de-escalate here?

The sad reality is that all these school shooting prevention measures you mention make a lot of sense if you assume the shooter is from within the school community. But this need not be the case in general.

So, while I would still go along with them, I believe extra measures going beyond mental health services are necessary. That includes not just the measures you mentioned, but also taking the necessary measures so strangers don't go into schools (seriously, what the fuck?), at least not letting the mentally ill get access to guns and this means whoever wants to buy one needs a medical clearance to that effect (no different from a medical prescription, the visit could be covered as any medical visit is), an at least temporary AR ban like the 1994 one, and police presence if the circumstances merit it.

De-escalation seems unlikely to work but I'd let police make that call in the situation. I highly doubt it would have worked in Uvalde, but I'd let cops make the call since they are in the best position to make that assessment. These police teams could and should have psychologists and mental health experts too, you know. I would not send them to an active shooter situation unprotected, that's undoubtedly unethical.

The US is a first world country and can definitely fund all of these measures too. If I have to pay more taxes to get these infrastructure investments, enforcement, monitoring and services I'm okay with it - governments are flawed in many ways, but that doesn't mean they are useless. I think plenty would agree as well.

None of these measures are infallible, be they taken in isolation or together, but they would be an improvement. They are neither extreme nor unconstitutional either and I'm sure plenty of both Democrats and Republicans would agree.
#15235370
wat0n wrote:The sad reality is that all these school shooting prevention measures you mention make a lot of sense if you assume the shooter is from within the school community. But this need not be the case in general.


Please show how many school shootings are perpetrated by strangers to the school.
#15235384
Imagine a society of people who follow trends so diligently that they lose the ability to think on their own.

Pants-of-dog wrote:The actions of the police in this particular mass murder provide a very good argument for defunding police.


Well, if the USA's kids are all packing AK-47s and knives, perhaps the police are unnecessary? The kids can "take out" the bad guys themselves?

Blake Fleetwood wrote:There have been 260 mass shootings so far this year, and 2022 is projected to hit an all-time record. Mass shootings, — four or more victims shot in a single incident — are becoming so frequent that we’ve become numb. Since the 1980s, the rate has increased 90 times – from 6 to 9 a year, to more than 900 projected for 2022. And while mass shootings occur all over the world, the United States is sadly exceptional; with only 5% of the world’s population, the US has 31% of its mass shooters. ...


If this were happening in 1970, Pants-of-dog might have suggested "burning your bra" as a solution.

In 1980, he would have suggested putting a safety pin through your nose.

In 2015, he would have mentioned protecting Charlie Hebdo... as a means of dealing with mass shootings.

Just follow trends, and you'll be fine.
? :eh:
#15235430
Pants-of-dog wrote:Please show how many school shootings are perpetrated by strangers to the school.


Even one should be enough, don't you think?

But one shooting I referred to earlier ITT was also carried out by someone who had nothing to do with the school, and the attack was part of a broader attack on the community (he killed random people on the street before arriving to the school and failing to get in). So yes, it does happen, whether you like it or not.
#15235800
wat0n wrote:...I believe extra measures going beyond mental health services are necessary. That includes not just the measures you mentioned, but also taking the necessary measures so strangers don't go into schools...


This is the late 20th Century's "all adults are evil for kids except parents and teachers" way of thinking. A disaster for children.

Today, children can't grow up properly because they are raised in sterile suburbs where no adults are on the streets. Always in cars or behind walls.

Not only that, but several public safety campaigns have suggested that all males are sex offenders, all adults are scary, other people are harmful, your neighbors are diseased, etc.

This has stripped away "the village" that children need to grow up properly.

And you are suggesting more paranoia aimed at separating kids from adults because... adults are scary and kids need to be isolated. Exactly the wrong approach.

Instead, you should look at how much cars, suburbia, and mass media have ruined childhood be destroying the community, and empathy.
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