Roe V. Wade to be Overturned - Page 64 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15236251
@POD

"No, all these red states have a very high maternal mortality rate as well as a distressing lack of medical care and support for new babies and parents."

Oh, maternal mortality rates? Do your mortality rates include abortions, because those result in a death also.
#15236262
Drlee wrote:I guess you are just stuck on stupid. You talk about lies and then keep telling this one.

The SCOTUS did not remove a single right from anyone. WOMEN can still have abortions in every state. They must direct their law makers to ensure that they can. The SCOTUS did not and will not stop them. If there is any removal of a privilege (for except in one state there is no right to an abortion) it is the state that is doing it, not the SCOTUS.


If you want to see this as something other than a removal of rights, that is your privilege.

The people who are losing this right see it differently.

So do many lawmakers, judges, and other people.

Nonsense. Just another one of your diversions.


Let me know when you have read the opinion and arrive at page 61.

Also note that one of my opponents in this thread has already confirmed the misinformation.

I think you are angry and lashing out at me. I think your use of the term "pregnant people" is a childish slam on women. I think you know that I have done nothing on this thread but educate women and those men who support the privilege on how to overturn laws they see as draconian. You are disingenuous or careless when you try to denigrate me as if I was the problem. I believe in a woman's right to have an abortion within limits.


You just dismissed a discussion on the rights of pregnant people as irrelevant.

Are you now agreeing with me that they are relevant? good.

No they didn't. The states did that. The court was moot on a woman's right to an abortion.


No. States cannot overturn legal precedents. Only courts can do that.

Not really. You should learn to read the studies. And not in the US. But again.


I believe @Godstud just quoted evidence supporting the claim that jurisdictions outlawing abortion have just as many abortions as jurisdictions that allow it.

You are irrationally angry. It is not like you to degrade women. I am sorry you feel that people who have unprotected sex when they do not want to have children are "sluts". I don't. I think it is pretty stupid to have unprotected sex when one does not want to have a child but that is not a moral judgment.


Note that you are the one who keeps bringing up their sex life as a justification for removing their rights.

How is this not a method of controlling sexual behaviour?

Off topic. Please start a thread about welfare and universal health care. Then we can have a robust discussion about this topic.

I will go off topic with you to point out that there is very substantial support for woman's prenatal health in many places. In my own state, which bans abortion in almost every case, we have free healthcare for the poor and direct money payments to raise children which is not dependent on any kind of "moral clause". In the US there is a child tax credit and there are direct federal payments to people below a certain income who have a child. And there is foster care for the child of a woman who does not wish to keep her child. While I would agree that so much more should be done it is untrue for you to use the word "nothing".


You claimed this was all about saving babies.

Saving babies is a grand goal. And everyone supports that. But if that were the goal, anti-choicers would use science to determine which policies actually lead to saving babies and reducing abortions. They do not do that. At all.

Banning abortion does not reduce abortions. It probably does to some extent, but because abortion bans are correlated with lack of access to contraceptives and lack of sex education, the number of pregnancies in these jurisdictions is higher to begin with, so even the minor reduction in abortions does not equal less abortions overall.

And let me know when you have things like paid parental leave, free prenatal care, free births, free access to midwives, free postnatal care, subsidised daycare, and half the maternal mortality rate that you do now.

All those things would save babies. Countries that have all things have significantly less abortions and they do not have to take away rights.

———————-

@BlutoSays

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22270271/

Read the part called “Conclusion”.
#15236277
Sandzak wrote:Why are the republicans fighting so extreme against abortion?


To be fair, I am against abortion, but I am against banning abortion more.

Just like suicide, abortion is not something others can (or should) ban. (and in this case, you guessed it, I am against banning voluntary euthanasia, although technically such a ban also acts as a precaution against involuntary euthanasia, which in its extreme form is the Nazi gas chamber)

I consider myself only have a say (JUST a say, NOT the final say) on the matter if the baby in concern is the result of me cumming inside someone else. In this sense, Repubs act like they have cummed inside every woman they think they did.
#15236280
Dr lee exposes his real self over and over. He tries to pretend his support for making abortion as difficult as possible is not about subjugating women, but it is.
I’ve tried to debate abortion with anti choicers for years, and it’s never long before they reveal their real reasons.

Women should keep their legs together is a classic response.

Basically, men don’t have birth control choices after sex, so women shouldn’t have them either.
#15236287
snapdragon wrote:Women should keep their legs together is a classic response.


I agree with that too (mainly about the word "should"), but:

1. As a man, I of course welcome women who don't do that to me, without ulterior motives,
2. This sentence applies to men as much as it applies to women, and
3. It is not relevant to the debate. What should happen is different from whether it is practical to intervene.


snapdragon wrote:Basically, men don’t have birth control choices after sex, so women shouldn’t have them either.


Unfortunately the sperm life cycle means this "equality" can never be achieved.
#15236371
@Pants-of-dog Your responses are so dishonest and emotional that I believe I will just let what I really said stand.

@snapdragon

How about 'go fuck yourself'? Is there no one here who can suppress their emotions long enough to read what I really posted? So gloves off.

I have fucking repeated over and over that I believe a woman should have the right to an abortion before viability. If you believe we should dissect viable people as a means of birth control then we will just disagree. My opinions on the matter are almost directly in line (the same) as Roe V. Wade, that you all are whining about being overturned.

The difference between what I am saying and what you are emoting is that I am proposing real solutions to the issue. Not one other person here has done that. You all are just standing on the sidelines and bitching. No action. At least no effective action. So women. Fuck you. You are on your own. IF you can find a woman leader smart enough to convince you that you can change the laws where they are made then maybe you have a chance. If not? I am through caring.

This court just handed the biggest defeat to the role of women in society that we have seen since the Equal Rights Amendment went down in flames. And what did women (the majority of Americans) do about that? Not a fucking thing. Some when into business and whined about men's clubs, some went home to have a family, and the poor ones did not have the time or resources to have an opinion.

Well women. Get off your asses and do something. Just do it. Hit the streets. Send money to democrat candidates. Not just a little but a lot. Go door to door with petitions. Start recalls on republican legislators. But I am fucking done with you. I give you a road map to success and you just shit on me and call me names because I have no fairy dust to throw on the SCOTUS and make them believe in unicorns.

Do it or shut the fuck up. I, and many men like me, are tired of empty words. Bring be a petition and I will sign it. Come to the door collecting for money to take women on "camping trips" and I will contribute. Refuse to attend conventions or vacation in states that shit on what you think should be your rights and I will support you. Boycott companies that have a pro-life agenda and I will too.

But you won't. You will wait for a white man to do it for you just as you have for generations. And frankly, we are busy. Leave us alone. Or in the immortal words of Henry Higgins, "Eliza. Fetch me my slippers".
#15236379
@Drlee

There is not much you can do against the power of the government and the law. You pretty much have to fall in line with the law. However, any effective action to protect abortion would either have to come by getting more liberals on the bench and/or passing through Congress legislation that will protect abortion. Otherwise, there is not much anybody can do about it.

I mean, women could get secret and dangerous abortions that nobody knows about and so a state government can't charge anybody with a crime if they don't know about it. Which, I am sure a lot of women will do that in some states given abortion would be illegal there. It will probably cost some women their lives or it will have serious negative healthcare consequences for women who get a dangerous secret abortion in an unsafe manner.

Or they will go to other states and overwhelm the abortion clinics in other states who can only handle so much if it is legally permissible for them to do so. Some women will require an abortion to save their own lives and they might not be able to get it now. Moreover, even if the child lives and the woman die giving birth, the conditions of the child could be very bad and it would have been more merciful on the child itself to have had the abortion in order to give that baby some dignity depending on what the consequences of the complications of birth are on the child after birth. There are a lot of grey areas in life and life isn't so simple as black and white all the time.
#15236395
However, any effective action to protect abortion would either have to come by getting more liberals on the bench and/or passing through Congress legislation that will protect abortion. Otherwise, there is not much anybody can do about it.


Seriously guy. Have you actually read any of my posts? Even one of them? I posted a road map of how to do it and it was not the above. Unless by "Congress" you are referring to state governments.

The SCOTUS gave a freaking roadmap of how to do it!

I am just tired of this thread .

Seriously people. Do try to keep up.
#15236425
@Drlee

Honestly, I didn't read any of your posts in this thread. I was just stating an obvious fact that if a court, especially the Supreme Court makes a ruling you have to follow it because it's the law, even if you don't agree with the ruling. It's still the law. I was also just pointing out the potential consequences of such a ruling on women and women's rights. But you are correct, I did not read any of your posts in the thread, not because I don't value your input, but because I was simply being lazy, plus I was very busy. I do apologize if I sort of put you on the defense as that was not my intent. I was simply trying to state some obvious facts and illustrate the consequences of such a ruling. No disrespect was intended.
Last edited by Politics_Observer on 01 Jul 2022 14:45, edited 2 times in total.
#15236426
Sandzak wrote:Even rape and sexual abuse can women not abort.... this is even for my taste too much!


Well it depends which of the 50 states you're in. In some you are correct, in others you are not.
#15236437
Sandzak wrote:
Imagine your daughter was raped and she can not abort.



There is a case right now about a very young girl raped by her father.

She can't abort, so inbreeding is a thing again...
#15236440
late wrote:There is a case right now about a very young girl raped by her father.

She can't abort, so inbreeding is a thing again...

So its the Handmaid's tale? So, they destroyed the constitution? The Lincoln Monuments gone and washington monument is a giant cross? They military junta everything? The commanders collect childbirthing handmaids? The defectors are shot and hung? Well point is, its probably for a commander.


#15236441
Drlee wrote:…dishonest and emotional ….
….go fuck yourself'…

…fucking … you all are whining ….

…. just standing on the sidelines and bitching. …. So women. Fuck you. ….


:|

———————

Now we will begin to see states pass laws that seek to restrict pregnant people from going across state lines to get an abortion.

Texas already allows people to sue anyone for getting an abortion or helping someone to get an abortion. This can almost certainly be targeted at people trying to cross state lines.
#15236448
Mike12 wrote:

So its the Handmaid's tale? So, they destroyed the constitution? The Lincoln Monuments gone and Washington monument is a giant cross? They military junta everything? The commanders collect childbirthing handmaids? The defectors are shot and hung? Well point is, its probably for a commander.




I have trouble with the way you write.

I will say this, they are setting jurisprudence back over a century, and don't have a problem with writing fiction. The Federalist Society judges are lying political hacks that should never been appointed.

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