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By Mike12
#15236600
Bulaba Khan Jones wrote:Secession is possible and always was possible, but the way it happened resulted in a majority of the states and the majority of its population, North and South included, disagreeing on the manner in which it occurred.

The Founders envisioned the Constitution and its amendments being capable of resolving differences between the states. A culture war existed between abolitionists and the Southern states which operated on slave-based economies. The South gradually lost that culture war and the political war. There were myriad "compromise" agreements which gradually led to slavery not being expanded into new states and territories. Instead of operating through the laws and governmental mechanisms of the states, the Southern states unilaterally seceded because they didn't get their way.

The Founding Fathers absolutely did not intend for individual states to be temporarily governed by people who would secede from the Union if they didn't get something they wanted. That impacts the military, interstate commerce and logistics, travel, and more. Secession of individual states should have been discussed in open Congress and put to a vote. Ironically, had that been done and those states, demanding to secede because their values and cultural way of life no longer allowed for integrated coexistence, were voted against, there would have at least been a justification for armed rebellion. In any case, the idea of states being allowed to secede on a whim for any reason is absurd and not even the Founders would think that makes sense.

Instead, the Southern states were led by little more than thugs who made no serious effort to exhaust their legal recourses and, if they genuinely desired to secede, attempt to proceed in good faith. Each state was led by individuals who, like any lawless band of authoritarians, effectively seized power over their domains and didn't do so in a Constitutional manner.

I can't stress that enough. Instead of bringing forward motions of secession for Congress to decide on (even if they would rebel after an unsuccessful attempt) to legally secede, state governments seized land, federal property, and set about rewriting laws and arming themselves for war.

Ultimately this was a very big tantrum by babies who couldn't handle losing on the slavery issue.


Mr. President, and Senators, having made the announcement which the occasion seemed to me to require, it only remains to me to bid you a final adieu.

From The Papers of Jefferson Davis



Image
User avatar
By Mike12
#15236648
Scamp wrote:@Mike12
Our Founding Fathers are not rolling over in their graves. They are spinning.

Why's that? Is that your original post? Trump v. Biden?
#15236703
Scamp wrote:@Mike12
Our Founding Fathers are not rolling over in their graves. They are spinning.


Who cares? I would gladly spit roast Washington's corpse with you right now. The ~Founding Fathers~ were slave owning dipshits in powdered wigs riddled with bedbugs who had wooden teeth and disowned the half-black children they brought into the world by fucking people they owned as property. Which is still a really funny thing that their dipshit heirs have to deal with because they are still coasting on their plantations being historical, money making tourist traps. And also, sometimes, problematic places to hold a wedding.

God damn, Drag Queen Story Times make me angry but I love these men who wore white wigs and coated their faces in mercury laced white makeup to hide their syphilis pockmarks.

If you really, truly think that men from the 1700's who would spit on you right now and didn't even think you should be able to vote because you don't own land should be dictating your life or the fundamental processes of governance then you are a fucking idiot of the highest caliber who didn't understand shit after 4th grade history.
User avatar
By Mike12
#15237440
SpecialOlympian wrote:Who cares? I would gladly spit roast Washington's corpse with you right now. The ~Founding Fathers~ were slave owning dipshits in powdered wigs riddled with bedbugs who had wooden teeth and disowned the half-black children they brought into the world by fucking people they owned as property. Which is still a really funny thing that their dipshit heirs have to deal with because they are still coasting on their plantations being historical, money making tourist traps. And also, sometimes, problematic places to hold a wedding.

God damn, Drag Queen Story Times make me angry but I love these men who wore white wigs and coated their faces in mercury laced white makeup to hide their syphilis pockmarks.

If you really, truly think that men from the 1700's who would spit on you right now and didn't even think you should be able to vote because you don't own land should be dictating your life or the fundamental processes of governance then you are a fucking idiot of the highest caliber who didn't understand shit after 4th grade history.

The impartial and enlightened verdict of mankind will vindicate the rectitude of our conduct, and He who knows the hearts of men will judge of the sincerity with which we labored to preserve the Government of our fathers in its spirit. The right solemnly proclaimed at the birth of the States, and which has been affirmed and reaffirmed in the bills of rights of States subsequently admitted into the Union of 1789, undeniably recognize in the people the power to resume the authority delegated for the purposes of government. Thus the sovereign States here represented proceeded to form this Confederacy, and it is by abuse of language that their act has been denominated a revolution. They formed a new alliance, but within each State its government has remained, the rights of person and property have not been disturbed. The agent through whom they communicated with foreign nations is changed, but this does not necessarily interrupt their international relations.

Jefferson Davis
President of the Confederate States of America,

To
Her Majesty Victoria
Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland,
etc., etc ., etc ., etc.

Great and Good Friend:
Animated by a sincere desire to cultivate the friendly relations so happily subsisting between the Confederate States of America and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland...

And while it's easy to generalize the UK as a nation of invariably charming, tea-sipping, Queen-loving people who live in thatched cottages near pubs with silly names, those stiff-upper-lipped Brits -- however much they love the US -- have no trouble flinging stereotypes back across the Atlantic. At least, that's what I learned after asking my friends back in the UK for their brutally honest opinions of Americans and the United States, British reserve be damned.

Here's what they said.

On food
“American food means taking everything you learned about moderation and healthiness growing up, and completely ignoring it.”

“Muddy Bears and Pop Tarts… what are they all about!?” [Editor's note: Excellent question. We've never even heard of Muddy Bears, although Google says they're gummy bears in chocolate. Which, actually, sounds delicious.]

“Nobody needs a pint of coke that they're having with a meal to be refilled and then refilled again. Not everything needs butter and cheese and bacon.”

On sports
“American football... that's rugby with padding, right? And sooooooo many commercials.”

“I'm quite confused about American sports. I mean, is baseball basically rounders?”

“Baseball is a bunch of fat men slamming their fists into leather gloves and spitting tobacco every few seconds.”

“My gut instinct about baseball is that it is cricket for idiots or gloried rounders -- that being said, it looks really hard to hit the ball that far and I love the outfits.”

“American sports do away entirely with the idea of a draw. Or a 'tie'. There MUST be a winner, at all costs.”

On pop culture
"The USA has a constant obsession over women with big boobs (Beyoncé) or a big butt (Kim Kardashian-West) or both (Nicki Minaj). Whereas, our papers attempt to be elegant... with Kate Moss, Kate Middleton, and Cara Delevingne.”
On high school
“Why are all Americans obsessed with high school? It looks like the most awful experience of all time where if you have anything in the least bit unusual about you, you get your head flushed down the toilet and all learning occurs through pop tests."

“When I was a teenager I used to read Sweet Valley High books and sometimes wished I went to an American high school.”

Other general impressions about America(ns)
“If you say something sarcastic they will look at you and you can actually see the 'but...you're joking...right...?' cogs turning behind their eyes.”

“Why are you so stingy with annual leave?”

“I hate the constant tipping and additional tax on everything -- so confusing!”

“The news channels!! They're always so shouty and over-dramatic!”

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation ... -of-the-us

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