Russia-Ukraine War 2022 - Page 321 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15236970
Rugoz wrote:Biased against an aggressive war of conquest and destruction. Indeed, I'm fucking biased, as every other decent person here is.


Where were you for the past 8 years of destruction against the people of Novorossiya, then? But don't cry over them now: their people are liberating them.

Tsar should have left Kossuth and Hungary alone in 1848.
#15236972
Rancid wrote:What limits do you propose?


@Rancid :

Seems to me that Russian areas return to Russia, and the rest is demilitarized and denazified and neutral.
By Rugoz
#15236975
annatar1914 wrote:Where were you for the past 8 years of destruction against the people of Novorossiya, then?


Oh piss off with your retarded imperialist wet dreams.

The peope there don't want your stupid Novorossiya. They want Russia to fuck off and leave them alone.
#15236981
annatar1914 wrote:Seems to me that Russian areas return to Russia, and the rest is demilitarized and denazified and neutral.


I was asking you about what limits should be done on what is being stated on these forums. Seems like your feelings are being hurt when people denounce Putin and his illegal war of aggression. Apparently the trash Igor spews is ok, but denouncing Putin isn't. how do you want to regulate the speech on this thread.

What anti-Putin/Anti-war speech hurts you so much that it needs to be silenced?

Should people be blocked from stating that Russia is blocking grain exports? That Russia is reducing cities to rubble? That Russia is killing numerous civilians? That Russia is deporting Ukrainians? that Russia is attacking a sovereign nation? That Russia is constantly threatening nuclear war? That Putin wants to destroy the very distinct ukrainian identity that has existed even before Moscow? That Russia is pressuring/tricking people to sign contracts to fight this stupid war? That Russia is using Donestks and Luhansk people as cannon fodder? That Russia is carrying out fake referendums and russofication? The Russia is working to force indoctrinate the children of occupied areas? That Putin lied when he said he wasn't going to invade? That this is bare naked imperialism? That Putin's claims of this fake ass "genocide" is indeed fucking fake?

Which of this is too much to bare and therefore unfair to you? Which of this needs to so quickly be erased from this thread?
Last edited by Rancid on 04 Jul 2022 20:40, edited 1 time in total.
#15236982
Rancid wrote:I was asking you about what limits should be done on what is being stated on these forums. Seems like your feelings are being hurt when people denounce Putin and his illegal war of aggression. Apparently the trash Igor spews is ok, but denouncing Putin isn't. how do you want to regulate the speech on this thread.

What anti-Putin/Anti-war speech hurts you so much that needs to be silenced?


@Rancid :

You're already trying to keep the narrative frame (" war of aggression ") as is. Denying self determination and moral agency to the people of Novorossiya in the face of the illegal and immoral war against them. It is laughable to think that anti Putin and pro Kiev regime talk is somehow restricted in any way.

I'm not " hurt" by conversation that is so far from reality, that only hard facts will do the convincing, if then. " pity" is a better word.
#15236983
annatar1914 wrote:
@Rancid :




You're already trying to keep the narrative frame (" war of aggression ") as is. Denying self determination and moral agency to the people of Novorossiya in the face of the illegal and immoral war against them. It is laughable to think that anti Putin and pro Kiev regime talk is somehow restricted in any way.

I'm not " hurt" by conversation that is so far from reality, that only hard facts will do the convincing, if then. " pity" is a better word.


You're hurt.

No surprises though, you're one of the jackasses supporting rhe Jan 6th insurrection as well.

You are the one that is pitied here.
#15236984
Rancid wrote:You're hurt.

No surprises though, you're one of the jackasses supporting rhe Jan 6th insurrection as well.

You are the one that is pitied here.


@Rancid :

Now you're just being silly. I don't support Trump and I thought that while Jan 6th was significant, it was Comic Opera, like the " Beer Hall Putsch".

I am a Communist. These people in charge are not like a woman that I should love or hate them. They merely are.
User avatar
By Wels
#15236987
annatar1914 wrote:[usermention=14245] [...] I am a Communist. These people in charge are not like a woman that I should love or hate them. They merely are.

I would be able to understand that you are a communist, though with what this means to different people, the mileage may vary.
But if you really are, what has this to do with for sympathy Russia in the current situation, especially Putin? :?:
#15236989
Wels wrote:I would be able to understand that you are a communist, though with what this means to different people, the mileage may vary.
But if you really are, what has this to do with for sympathy Russia in the current situation, especially Putin? :?:


@Wels :

This has nothing to do with feelings, but with larger world historical processes. Just watch.
#15236991
Rancid wrote:Russia is blocking grain exports

Ukraine is blocking grain exports (mining its ports to protect them from an amphibious attack by Russia).

The moment we clear access to the port of Odesa, the Russian fleet will be there.

— Sergiy Bratchuk, a spokesman for Odessa's regional administration


:lol:
#15236995
annatar1914 wrote:Denying self determination and moral agency to the people of Novorossiya in the face of the illegal and immoral war against them.


You're completely delusional. Any support Russia still had in Ukraine before this invasion has evaporated. Even in the East 67% want to join the EU now (only 9% a customs union with Russia/Belarus). In the South it's 79% vs. 2%.
Last edited by Rugoz on 04 Jul 2022 21:33, edited 1 time in total.
#15236996
annatar1914 wrote:@Wels :
This has nothing to do with feelings, but with larger world historical processes. Just watch.

So no answer. Communism has nothing to do with Putin, he is an imperialist and a dictator from the last millenium who misses the soviet dictatorship, which as well had nothing to do with communism.
"Larger world historical processes". I'm sorry i do not see history. I stick around "while the clown who is sick does the trick of disaster".
What some call history these days is just a dying dictator living out his personal hate.
#15237009
Russians lost around 8k dead and 25k-30k wounded for Severodonetsk/Lisichansk. So total of 33-38k dead and wounded for 50km penetration of territory in 4 months in 1 place. :knife:
#15237011
JohnRawls wrote:Russians lost around 8k dead and 25k-30k wounded for Severodonetsk/Lisichansk. So total of 33-38k dead and wounded for 50km penetration of territory in 4 months in 1 place. :knife:


I doubt the numbers... The Russians did not fight in urban areas, they just pound with artillery, and encircle the cities and besiege them, like in Mariupol.



@annatar1914 The war was and is unnecessary... Russia was on the way to become a 1st world country... The Europeans wanted to buy more gas (Nordstream 2)... everything lost.
Last edited by Sandzak on 05 Jul 2022 00:09, edited 3 times in total.
#15237012
Wels wrote:So no answer. Communism has nothing to do with Putin, he is an imperialist and a dictator from the last millenium who misses the soviet dictatorship, which as well had nothing to do with communism.
"Larger world historical processes". I'm sorry i do not see history. I stick around "while the clown who is sick does the trick of disaster".
What some call history these days is just a dying dictator living out his personal hate.


So all you have here is your feelings, and word salad, got it. I didn't expect you to understand (because to understand you have to have empathy too) that one can support the operation in principle and that on the basis of the freedom of Novorossiya from Ukrainian oppression, without being a follower of a certain politician.
#15237013
Rugoz wrote:You're completely delusional. Any support Russia still had in Ukraine before this invasion has evaporated. Even in the East 67% want to join the EU now (only 9% a customs union with Russia/Belarus). In the South it's 79% vs. 2%.



So you trust polls in a conflict zone(sponsored and administered by whom,
the SBU ?) which buttresses your confirmation bias. No surprise there.
#15237015
Sandzak wrote:I doubt the numbers... The Russians did not fight in urban areas, they just pound with artillery, and encircle the cities and besiege them, like in Mariupol.



@annatar1914 The war was and is unnecessary... Russia was on the way to become a 1st world country... The Europeans wanted to buy more gas (Nordstream 2)... everything lost.


What exactly was Severodonetsk then? I am not sure you have been paying attention at how Ukranians fought there. They let the Russians enter the city and then counterattacked and had fights there for several weeks. That is exactly what they did to minimize Russian artillery advantage in the area.
#15237017
@JohnRawls

JohnRawls wrote: They let the Russians enter the city and then counterattacked and had fights there for several weeks. That is exactly what they did to minimize Russian artillery advantage in the area.


That's exactly right, too. It's not a new tactic. When facing an adversary with superior firepower, you want to let them come close to you without them knowing you are close by and then attack and probably go hand to hand with them. If they use their artillery, they will just end up simply killing their own men right along with their targets, which defeats the whole purpose of artillery. It pretty much prevents the adversary with superior firepower from using their superior firepower without killing many of their own soldiers. When you spring that trap on an enemy that has superior firepower, you want it to be a total surprise too, as the element of surprise is a big force multiplier.
#15237029
Beren wrote:I observe and think rather than talk much, that's the secret, which must be a real wonder to you indeed. :lol:


No, you underestimate a lot of people. Especially women and people's who's culture you deem inferior. For me those are not great thinkers. At all...you taciturn Hungarian. :D
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