The Wuhan virus—how are we doing? - Page 193 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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#15222809
Rugoz wrote:Why? They can easily say it's a harmless new variant. Which is the truth, actually. :lol:


When you spin a web of lies, half truths, and denials, things get complicated. When your legitimacy to power is dependent on said lies, half truths, and denials, things get complicated.
#15223250
Rancid wrote:When you spin a web of lies, half truths, and denials, things get complicated. When your legitimacy to power is dependent on said lies, half truths, and denials, things get complicated.

Is this about the West?

Because a lot of our "states" are the creations of genocide, which is why our history is mostly lies.

And when your history is lies.... the present and future are likely to be unpredictable and unstable.

And your identity is likely to be as false as the history books you never bothered reading.
#15223971
This is from earlier today. I still don't understand this:
Image

How does this help? Is the virus lurking behind bushes and inside storm gutters waiting to jump out at people? Is it not pretty clear that the main transmission mechanism is humans being near each other?

Anyway, it sounds like Beijing i starting to see a spike in cases. Unclear if they will lock down in this manner.
#15224141
Rancid wrote:No, did you not know how to read?

You are full of non-sequiturs and diversions. So full of crap.


That you consider anything outside your range of acceptable opinions "non-sequiturs and diversions" ...
demontrates just how narrow the American mind has become over time.

This narrowing of the mind can lead to disaster... because it doesn't allow for a consideration of many influences.

Propaganda can narrow the mind to the point where the victim is suicidal... without even realizing it.

Note: this entire post is on-topic
#15224149
Propaganda is good. It's all wheat, no chaff. I know it's information I can use and that it has been focus tested to provide me with the most up to date information I need. I think it should be called Infoganda.
#15236705
Fasces wrote:Nothing is "up" in China from a public health perspective. As I stated earlier, this is simply what happens when China's incentive structure meets incompetent officials.



This disaster has four elements:

    1. The outbreak in Hong Kong spooked the mainland because of similar vaccination rates. Sinopharm and Sinovac are less effective against new variants than mRNA vaccines because they use inactive virus, so new vaccines and boosters are required for new variants (similar to flu each year).
    2. Vaccination is low despite efforts to increase it (1000 RMB gifts for three boosters; a hundred eggs if you go this clinic vs that) simply because covid has been such a non-issue in China. It's not seen as a huge deal because of relatively popular zero-covid measures for international travel and people see the potential side-effects as "not worth it" as a result.
    3. The incentive structure in China means that city and province officials care more about directions from Beijing (Don't become a HK situation) than pressures from the people. It is less risky for an official to do what Shanghai did. This is a problem with democratic centralism.
    4. The Shanghai officials are incompetent. Qingdao had its own outbreak worry a few weeks before Shanghai, and our lockdown was announced ahead of time, brief, and not a full-lockdown (done on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis). It was entirely a more competent response. There are factors for that - comparative populations, and so on, but complete freezes like that (people stuck in a restaurant for three days, workers locked into factories, children shut off in schools) is fucking retarded, and even Chinese social media is lambasting Shanghai.

Now that the leaders in Shanghai have made the city into an international (and domestic) horror show, they even failed to satisfy the incentives of point 3. More than a few will be retired, a few more stuck in dead-end jobs - though really, many of the people making these decisions should be criminally prosecuted for incompetence.


I'm late on this, but I live in Shanghai and I live in a district that started total lockdown around the beginning of March, a month before the whole city went into lockdown until June. It was even more incompetent than you might be aware of. Shanghai has two main divisions: Puxi (West Shanghai) and Pudong (east). There was supposed to be a lockdown starting in Pudong on April 1st, after Puxi's lockdown days before that. Around March 29th at around 9 PM, the Shanghai government announced Pudong would be locked down at 3 AM, in six hours. The scenes of mass panic and chaos at stores, supermarkets, and communities were incredible.

To add to your observations, I notice many decisions are made late at night with little notice at all. I suspect that's to avoid days of criticism if certain major decisions are made in a more reasonable span of time.
#15236778
Rancid wrote:This is from earlier today. I still don't understand this:
Image

How does this help? Is the virus lurking behind bushes and inside storm gutters waiting to jump out at people? Is it not pretty clear that the main transmission mechanism is humans being near each other?

Anyway, it sounds like Beijing i starting to see a spike in cases. Unclear if they will lock down in this manner.


It helps about as much as Arthur groping your ass and having you throw out your mouthwash before you board a flight.
#15237091
West does well whereas China is still in lockdowns :lol: :lol: :lol:

I catched twice corona... although I am 3 times vaccinated.


I have for a week holidays but catched corona... damn.

Chinese vaccines do not work, and they health care system has too few intensive care beds...


So China has to rely on Lockdowns :p
#15237115
:roll: @Sandzak China doesn't RELY on lockdowns, but quarantines are SOP for diseases like this. Chinese vaccines DO work(MANY countries use them). You're spreading dumbass lies by saying otherwise.

It's the reason why China, with 4 times the population of the USA, has 200 times less deaths.

If you looked at the face of it you'd think China valued human life more than the USA does. :hmm:
#15237149
I think it’s finally caught me, but I’m just too stubborn to test.

My face actually hurts, like my eye sockets, my brow bone, jaw and teeth and it all makes for one giant migraine. And body aches, particularly the lower back and legs. I fluctuate between sweats and chills, but no fever :?:

Not a lot of sneezing or coughing though…if I didn’t feel so poorly you probably wouldn’t even know I was sick.
#15237158
Godstud wrote::roll: @Sandzak China doesn't RELY on lockdowns, but quarantines are SOP for diseases like this. Chinese vaccines DO work(MANY countries use them). You're spreading dumbass lies by saying otherwise.

It's the reason why China, with 4 times the population of the USA, has 200 times less deaths.

If you looked at the face of it you'd think China valued human life more than the USA does. :hmm:


I saw this on german TV and it is true!

Same as the Gulags... Ai Wei Wei grew up in such a Gulag.
#15237162
:lol: Gulags. Rubbish.

Yes, it's true that China has had 200 times less Covid deaths than the USA. It's because they take a pandemic seriously and aren't so concerned about personal freedoms that they will willingly sacrifice hundreds of thousands of people just so twats can go to a market without a mask on.
#15237163
Godstud wrote::lol: Gulags. Rubbish.

Yes, it's true that China has had 200 times less Covid deaths than the USA. It's because they take a pandemic seriously and aren't so concerned about personal freedoms that they will willingly sacrifice hundreds of thousands of people just so twats can go to a market without a mask on.


And we should compare it to the USA why? :eh:

Plenty of countries handled Covid better than either of those two.

China's approach is clearly failing at the moment.
#15237164
China has lost less than 6,000 people to Covid-19. How is it failing?

Shall we compare it's nearest neighbours?

Deaths by country from Covid-19:
Thailand 30,000 -68 million people
South Korea 24,000 -51 million people
Cambodia 3,000 - 16.7 million people
Laos 757 - 7.2 million people
Vietnam 43,000 -97 million people
Japan 31,000 - 126 million people


So how has China failed, with it's population dwarfing those of it's neighbours?

Have you forgotten that China's population is 1.402 BILLION?

Even New Zealand with only 1,534 deaths from Covid-19 doesn't compare. NZ has only 5 million people living there.
#15237165
Godstud wrote:China has lost less than 6,000 people to Covid-19. How is it failing?

Shall we compare it to South Korea, it's nearest neighbour, or maybe Japan, or Thailand? How about Laos and Cambodia?

Deaths by country from Covid-19:
Thailand 30,000
South Korea 24,000
Cambodia 3,000
Laos 757
Vietnam 43,000
Japan 31,000


So how has China failed, with it's population dwarfing those of it's neighbours?

Have forgotten that China's population is 1.402 BILLION?

Even New Zealand with only 1,534 deaths from Covid-19 doesn't compare. NZ has only 5 million people living there.


It's failing because China still has to enforce lockdowns that are far worse than anything we've seen elsewhere, such as being basically confined to your apartement for months and general travel restrictions. The economy is also suffering as a consequence. It's not a viable strategy going forward.

Meanwhile, "deaths from covid" is a meaningless statistic. What matters is excess mortality, which is actually negative in countries like Japan and Australia. On top of that, if an old/sick person dies somewhat earlier than it would have otherwise, that's simply not as much of a tragedy as you Covid-fanatics pretend it to be. "Life years lost" should be the relevant number, not deaths.
#15237169
I am quoting facts, and if that distresses you, @Sandzak, then that's too bad.

1 million are NOT in camps. That's Western propaganda. They've had problems on the border to Afghanistan, but most people like to ignore the terror attacks that came before they started to imprison the people causing this in their Easter provinces.

Xinjiang: what the West doesn't tell you about China's war on terror
Starting around 2007, however, it became increasingly dangerous to visit Xinjiang. The region was rocked by a spate of horrific terrorist attacks, resulting in over 1,000 deaths and countless injuries.

For example, on July 5, 2009, there was a riot in the capital city of Urumqi; 197 people were hacked, beaten or burned to death and 1,721 were injured. On May 22, 2014, two car bombings in the same city killed 43 people and wounded 94. There were dozens of other attacks.

The extreme violence was not just confined to Xinjiang. In 2013, five people died and 38 were injured in a suicide attack by three Uygurs in Beijing. In 2014, a killing spree by eight knife-wielding Uygurs left 31 people dead and 141 wounded at a Kunming railway station.

A 2016 study commissioned by the US government noted that, from 2012 to 2014, domestic attacks in China “apparently became more frequent, more geographically dispersed, and more indiscriminately targeted”. The perpetrators, in many cases, were radicalised members of the Uygur ethnic group.

The organisation that often claimed responsibility for the attacks, the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), was described in a Council on Foreign Relations backgrounder as “a Muslim separatist group founded by militant Uygurs”.

The backgrounder further noted: “The group and its ties to Muslim fundamentalism have compounded Chinese concerns about the rising threat of terrorism within the country as its restive Western regions faced a spate of terrorist attacks in 2014 ... ETIM has been listed by the State Department as one of the more extreme separatist groups. It seeks an independent state called East Turkestan that would cover an area including parts of Turkey, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region”.

In 2002, the US and the United Nations both declared ETIM a terrorist group, with the UN Security Council noting the group’s association with al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden or the Taliban.

Uygur fighters battled with US forces in Afghanistan and elsewhere, with many being wounded, killed or captured. For years, the US held 22 Uygurs at Guantanamo Bay. As recently as July 2020, the UN identified thousands of Uygur Islamic State fighters in Syria and Afghanistan.

Much like the post-September 11 war on terror - one in which the US, ironically, had considered China to be a partner - China has been waging its own counterterrorism offensive in Xinjiang. The extremists operate across China’s porous borders and train alongside the Taliban and Islamic State.

https://www.mfa.gov.cn/ce/cgct/eng/gdxw/t1870194.htm

So you can ignore 2 million+ in American jails? :O

The claim against Muslims is misleading and false.
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