Western Europe in Decline - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15241814
Hungarian President Orbán warned that the West is subjecting itself to "suicide waves" of decline in the form of self-inflicted economic wounds, mass migration and an obsession with identity politics.

Orbán Warns West is Subjecting Itself to “Suicide Waves” of Decline – Summit News
https://summit.news/2022/05/17/orban-wa ... f-decline/

Is Orbán right?

Traditionally Western Europe has had a higher standard of living than Eastern Europe, but I don't think anyone can deny the living standards in the West have been going down over last 20 years. Homelessness is rampant in the streets of Paris now, whereas it was virtually non-existent 30 years ago. There are protests in France over the declining standards of living, with rents becoming unaffordable in the Paris region (Paris is the economic hub of France where all the job opportunities are concentrated). Things have also gotten more difficult for poorer people in the U.K.

Some of the "self-inflicted economic wounds" might include really stupid economic policies, an extreme environmentalist agenda shutting many things down and placing big burdens on the economy, bloated bureaucracy, excessive and needless regulation. Mass migration, meanwhile, is driving up crime rates, beginning to cause flight out of the old traditional city areas, leading to increased rent prices, and leading to an excess of supply in the labor market, which inevitably reduces wages, makes working conditions poorer, and displacing more vulnerable younger and older workers.



The Death of Europe, with Douglas Murray, Hoover Institution
#15241852
"wars of Religion before wars of Nation-States behind the crime scene tape , 20th century fascism and communism" "Europe has lost faith in its traditions ". I absorbed Orthodox and Catholic in a computer game just now and made "Christianity" . cool beans.
#15241974
Mike12 wrote:"wars of Religion before wars of Nation-States behind the crime scene tape , 20th century fascism and communism" "Europe has lost faith in its traditions ". I absorbed Orthodox and Catholic in a computer game just now and made "Christianity" . cool beans.

Can you not see the positive things Europe obtained? In fact, if we ignore the two World Wars (I know, really hard to do), Europe has made a lot of advancements since the Eighteenth Century.

I would also argue that (Christian) religion probably prevented far more wars in Europe than it caused, and that even when wars were carried out in the name of religion it was more often than not actually for other underlying reasons, but that would probably be another discussion.
#15242020
Rugoz wrote:Ruler of shithole country tells story about how bad things in the West are. Yawn.

Well at least his country isn't becoming worse.

Things in Western Europe have deteriorated down so far that most Hungarians wouldn't think it worth the effort to pickup and move to France or the U.K. for employment. Whereas many of them had done so before.

I even read in Austria they were trying to get their foreign migrants to go back home, because so many Austrians who were working abroad in other countries further West no longer felt things were there were much better than Austria, so they were returning back home to Austria in droves. But when they had originally left Austria, it had created a vacuum for other migrants from other even poorer parts of the world to come.
By late
#15242023
Puffer Fish wrote:
Well at least his country isn't becoming worse.



Don't bet on it.

Dictators look great, right up to the minute they go down in flames.
#15242027
Puffer Fish wrote:Well at least his country isn't becoming worse.

Things in Western Europe have deteriorated down so far that most Hungarians wouldn't think it worth the effort to pickup and move to France or the U.K. for employment. Whereas many of them had done so before.

I even read in Austria they were trying to get their foreign migrants to go back home, because so many Austrians who were working abroad in other countries further West no longer felt things were there were much better than Austria, so they were returning back home to Austria in droves. But when they had originally left Austria, it had created a vacuum for other migrants from other even poorer parts of the world to come.


Democracy, Rule of Law, People's Rights, Corruption.

His country is manifestly getting much worse,
#15242030
At such a time in history, we who are free must proclaim anew our faith. This faith is the abiding creed of our fathers. It is our faith in the deathless dignity of man, governed by eternal moral and natural laws. This faith defines our full view of life. It establishes, beyond debate, those gifts of the Creator that are man's inalienable rights, and that make all men equal in His sight.

Here, then, is joined no argument between slightly differing philosophies. This conflict strikes directly at the faith of our fathers and the lives of our sons. No principle or treasure that we hold, from the spiritual knowledge of our free schools and churches to the creative magic of free labor and capital, nothing lies safely beyond the reach of this struggle.

Freedom is pitted against slavery; lightness against the dark
The faith we hold belongs not to us alone but to the free of all the world. This common bond binds the grower of rice in Burma and the planter of wheat in Iowa, the shepherd in southern Italy and the mountaineer in the Andes. It confers a common dignity upon the French soldier who dies in Indo-China, the British soldier killed in Malaya, the American life given in Korea. -"Presbyterian" dressed Eisenhower

And that's about all I have to say tonight, except for one thing. The past few days when I've been at that window upstairs, I've thought a bit of the 'shining city upon a hill.' The phrase comes from John Winthrop, who wrote it to describe the America he imagined. What he imagined was important because he was an early Pilgrim, an early freedom man. He journeyed here on what today we'd call a little wooden boat; and like the other Pilgrims, he was looking for a home that would be free. I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still. -"Presbyterian" Reagan "formal"

But it is not the new inventions which are the difficulty. The trouble is caused by unthinking people who carelessly throw away ageless ideals as if they were old and outworn machinery.

They would have religion thrown aside, morality in personal and public life made meaningless, honesty counted as foolishness and self-interest set up in place of self-restraint.

At this critical moment in our history we will certainly lose the trust and respect of the world if we just abandon those fundamental principles which guided the men and women who built the greatness of this country and Commonwealth.

Today we need a special kind of courage, not the kind needed in battle but a kind which makes us stand up for everything that we know is right, everything that is true and honest. We need the kind of courage that can withstand the subtle corruption of the cynics so that we can show the world that we are not afraid of the future.

It has always been easy to hate and destroy. To build and to cherish is much more difficult. That is why we can take a pride in the new Commonwealth we are building.

This year Ghana and Malaya joined our brotherhood. Both these countries are now entirely self-governing. Both achieved their new status amicably and peacefully.

This advance is a wonderful tribute to the efforts of men of goodwill who have worked together as friends, and I welcome these two countries with all my heart.
Also during 1957 my husband and I paid visits to Portugal, France, Denmark and the United States of America. In each case the arrangements and formalities were managed with great skill but no one could have 'managed' the welcome we received from the people.

In each country I was welcomed as Head of the Commonwealth and as your representative. These nations are our friends largely because we have always tried to do our best to be honest and kindly and because we have tried to stand up for what we believe to be right.

In the old days the monarch led his soldiers on the battlefield and his leadership at all times was close and personal.

Today things are very different. I cannot lead you into battle, I do not give you laws or administer justice but I can do something else, I can give you my heart and my devotion to these old islands and to all the peoples of our brotherhood of nations.

I believe in our qualities and in our strength, I believe that together we can set an example to the world which will encourage upright people everywhere.

I would like to read you a few lines from 'Pilgrim's Progress', because I am sure we can say with Mr Valiant for Truth, these words:

"Though with great difficulty I am got hither, yet now I do not repent me of all the trouble I have been at to arrive where I am. My sword I give to him that shall succeed me in my pilgrimage and my courage and skill to him that can get it. My marks and scars I carry with me, to be a witness for me that I have fought his battles who now will be my rewarder." -Elizabeth II Christmas Message 1957
Image

a state coat-of-arms was introduced in the Alabama Legislature of 1939 by James Simpson, Jefferson County, and was passed without a dissenting vote by both houses. The coat-of-arms consists of a shield on which appears the emblems of the five governments that have held sovereignty over Alabama. The arms of Spain, and France, and the flaga of Great Britain and the Confederacy are bound by the shield of the United States.

This shield is supported on either side by bald eagles, symbolic of courage. The crest is a model of the ship, the Baldine, that Iberville and Bienville sailed from France to settle a colony near present day Mobile (1699). The motto beneath the shield is "Audemus jura nostra defendere," We Dare Defend Our Rights. Beneath the motto is the state name.


#15242219
late wrote:You really need to learn how to write.

I need to learn to write. There's a US invasion of Europe. Uncle Eisenhower gets elected for free. He comes up with a scheme and side project that doesn't even matter. France and Spain already have had revolutions since 1776. We're already working on complete nonacknowledgment of all competitors as nationalists, patriots, and supremacists, so caring about Europe people or institutions is in writing as hypocritical.
#15242222
late wrote:You really need to learn how to write.



Oh ya? Was there a US invasion of Europe? Is he bragging about it and running for President, Uncle Eisenhower. Was it the Nazis, ha, and the 8 of them are screw ups. Western Europe in decline, when its "free hugs" out of Europe, America has to take the full credit, see that? If the Scottish planted the Presbyterian Church of the New Englander right now as they say, you know as Presbyterian Church in US/USA/(USA) how much national bullshit is in the options here, the PC(USA) supports evangelical feminism and supports practise of same gender marriages. It also welcomes practicing gay and lesbian persons to serve in leadership positions as ministers, deacons, elders, and trustees.[2] The Presbyterian Church (USA) is a mainline protestant denomination that has been tied up in the politics of the Boycott-Divest-Sanction (BDS) movement against Israel for more than a decade, culminating in a narrow four-vote majority in its 2014 General Assembly (GA) to divest church funds from HP, Motorola, and Caterpillar because of those company’s products being used to violent ends by Israel in the Palestinian territories. INT-12: Regarding a Korean Peace Treaty was answered with action on INT-15: On Advocating for a Peace Agreement in the Korean Peninsula, which passed unanimously as written. INT-02: On Recognition That Israel’s Laws, Policies, and Practices Constitute Apartheid Against the Palestinian People was discussed extensively, with debate centered again on the legal definition of apartheid and whether its language was clear enough about admonishing Israeli government policies — and not the Israeli people.

By late
#15242224
Mike12 wrote:
I need to learn to write. There's a US invasion of Europe. Uncle Eisenhower gets elected for free. He comes up with a scheme and side project that doesn't even matter. France and Spain already have had revolutions since 1776. We're already working on complete nonacknowledgment of all competitors as nationalists, patriots, and supremacists, so caring about Europe people or institutions is in writing as hypocritical.



While you're there, take a few history classes.
#15242226
late wrote:While you're there, take a few history classes.

Who says I get to travel? What good would travelling do? This is a literal question inside mental evaluations, you yourself thinking you travel and connect usefully somewhere, been to Paris 7 times?
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