[Rancid]

Give them grants, not loans.

Agree on this.

[BlutoSays]

The problem with folks like Bluto is that they have been fed on a diet of Fox News memes and facile bullet points. Slogan after slogan. The shallow end of the pool.

What is the scapegoat today? Does Bluto realize that food stamps and Obama Care are two of the largest corporate welfare programs in history? Do they benefit the poor? Only to the extent that these poor can give money to corporations. Bluto points this out but doesn't understand that the alternative is not to stop these programs but to force employers to pay a living wage. He can't make that connection. The shallow end of the pool. There was a time when conservative Republicans knew this. But not lately.

Now we have Republicans wanting to put Social Security on the chopping block. One of those socialist programs people like Bluto hate. Maybe we should look to Republican leadership for the answer to Bluto's concern.





You know. Like conservatives would stop welfare waste. Well except George Bush who signed into law the largest welfare program since Medicare/Medicade. A program that makes Obamacare look like pocket change. The Prescription Drug Act. And did it without raising one cent of revenue to pay for it.

But McConnell, THE Republican leader would not expect the rich to pay more. Would he?



Wow. Higher taxes on the wealthy. He sounds like a democrat socialist communist.

You see Bluto reads the uber conservative Texas Senator when he says this:



And why does he not ask himself why half of the households in America earn so little money that they can't afford to pay income tax.

And he further does not understand that this is just income tax. Those half of households pay very significant taxes.

Sound bites. Don't ask hard questions. The shallow end of the pool.

I want you to explain to me the ramifications of forcing an arbitrary wage by fiat. Not what you THINK happens, but what actually happens when the business or the larger economy can't support the wage you want.

I want a pony! And?

[Steve_American]

I want you to explain to me the ramifications of forcing an arbitrary wage by fiat. Not what you THINK happens, but what actually happens when the business or the larger economy can't support the wage you want.

I want a pony! And?

If the new min. wage is implemented by creating a new Federal Job Guarantee Program, then the unemployed will be earning $25/hr doing socially useful work. My seat of my pants estimate is that this is 3 times as much as they are getting on unemployment now.

All this extra money is flowing into the local economy to support small businesses. Then small businesses can pay $26/hr for their workers.

Because this money being paid to the HGP workers comes mostly from selling bonds, it is adding to the national incomes without reducing incomes like a tax increase does. That is, people can't buy things in the economy with the money they paid in taxes. But, I'm positive Bluto is so deep in his imaginary fantasy world and info bubble that he can never grok all this.

On this site I have also called for laws to keep businesses from increasing prices beyond their costs to suck up this money. My suggestion was to "graduate" the corp income (aka profit) tax, and have a excess profits tax too. I would have 99% corp profits tax on profits over 1/3 of amazon's current profit, to make it break itself up.
Today I also called for protectionism to isolate the US economy from competition from low paid foreign workers like Pres. Washington did in the 1780s.
Today I also called for more aid to poor nations in the form of grants, not loans. For example, the World Bank could give a "grant/loan" where the nation only needs to pay back 10% of the total at 1% interest. The Fed, ECB, BoE, and BoJ, etc. would just give money to the World Bank to do this.

I have also suggested that international corps be taxed on their revenues paid to them in the US with the only deduction being wages paid to Americans in America. The rate might be around 3%, but I'm not sure what it should be. The intent with this is to make them pay on what they earn in the US, and not let them use bookkeeping tricks to move the profits to Ireland.
.

[BlutoSays]

If the new min. wage is implemented by creating a new Federal Job Guarantee Program, then the unemployed will be earning $25/hr doing socially useful work. My seat of my pants estimate is that this is 3 times as much as they are getting on unemployment now.

All this extra money is flowing into the local economy to support small businesses. Then small businesses can pay $26/hr for their workers.

Because this money being paid to the HGP workers comes mostly from selling bonds, it is adding to the national incomes without reducing incomes like a tax increase does. That is, people can't buy things in the economy with the money they paid in taxes. But, I'm positive Bluto is so deep in his imaginary fantasy world and info bubble that he can never grok all this.

On this site I have also called for laws to keep businesses from increasing prices beyond their costs to suck up this money. My suggestion was to "graduate" the corp income (aka profit) tax, and have a excess profits tax too. I would have 99% corp profits tax on profits over 1/3 of amazon's current profit, to make it break itself up.
Today I also called for protectionism to isolate the US economy from competition from low paid foreign workers like Pres. Washington did in the 1780s.
Today I also called for more aid to poor nations in the form of grants, not loans. For example, the World Bank could give a "grant/loan" where the nation only needs to pay back 10% of the total at 1% interest. The Fed, ECB, BoE, and BoJ, etc. would just give money to the World Bank to do this.

I have also suggested that international corps be taxed on their revenues paid to them in the US with the only deduction being wages paid to Americans in America. The rate might be around 3%, but I'm not sure what it should be. The intent with this is to make them pay on what they earn in the US, and not let them use bookkeeping tricks to move the profits to Ireland.
.

"Socially useful work"? What the fook is that? Work that no one would do without a gun put to their head?

So you want tax payers to foot the bill for paying workers $26 an hour because no natural demand for that exists?

Your grand plan is to put us on the path to a $40 hamburger and anyone who has any savings to be instantly put in poverty. Brilliant.

"On this site I have also called for laws to keep businesses from increasing prices beyond their costs to suck up this money." So you want us to look like Cuba or more recently Venezuela? 'You will produce this much at this price or die.' OK, Steve.

Watch as all countries pull all their assets out of the U.S. because of your idiocy. None of anything you mention is remotely Constitutional BTW.

"Today I also called for more aid to poor nations in the form of grants, not loans." Who the hell is going to want the USD when you get finished with it? Stacks of hundred dollar bills to wipe your ass with after a dump.

Iron-fisted top-down Soviet-style command economy... the world according to Steve.

You are a danger to yourself and others.

[Pants-of-dog]

1. Nationalize the housing industry.
2. Institute a UBI.
3. ?
4. Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism.

[Steve_American]

"Socially useful work"? What the fook is that? Work that no one would do without a gun put to their head?

So you want tax payers to foot the bill for paying workers $26 an hour because no natural demand for that exists?

Your grand plan is to put us on the path to a $40 hamburger and anyone who has any savings to be instantly put in poverty. Brilliant.

"On this site I have also called for laws to keep businesses from increasing prices beyond their costs to suck up this money." So you want us to look like Cuba or more recently Venezuela? 'You will produce this much at this price or die.' OK, Steve.

Watch as all countries pull all their assets out of the U.S. because of your idiocy. None of anything you mention is remotely Constitutional BTW.

"Today I also called for more aid to poor nations in the form of grants, not loans." Who the hell is going to want the USD when you get finished with it? Stacks of hundred dollar bills to wipe your ass with after a dump.

Iron-fisted top-down Soviet-style command economy... the world according to Steve.

You are a danger to yourself and others.

Bluto, there is a lot of work in the US that needs to be done, but no corp can make a profit doing. some examples are =>
1] Collecting the garbage
2] Sweeping the streets
3] Filling potholes
4] Planting trees

The MMT style Federal JGP leaves it to the local govs. to decide what they think is socially useful. [I know that there would have to be a parallel system for those red states that would discriminate against non-whites. It would hire the non-whites who were rejected by the local system.]

Expert economists of the MMT school (there are 10 of them) have shown in peer reviewed papers that this would not be inflationary (at least after the 1st year as the economy adjusted to it).

Bluto, you are not an expert economist, so your single opinion is not to be taken over that of 10 expert economists.
. . . The only time and place where this sort of program was tried was in the US in the 30s with the WPA & CCC, etc. AFAIK, this was not inflationary; and I am positive that it didn't lead to $4 hamburgers (I reduced your $40 hamburgers because it was 85 years ago). So, there is no evidence that the JGP will be inflationary.

Lurkers, Bluto still believes in the fantasy world that MS Econ built to be able to say that they had proven that various policies were needed or terrible. So, he just assumes without any evidence that high inflation will result.
.

[Unthinking Majority]

If the new min. wage is implemented by creating a new Federal Job Guarantee Program, then the unemployed will be earning $25/hr doing socially useful work. My seat of my pants estimate is that this is 3 times as much as they are getting on unemployment now.

All this extra money is flowing into the local economy to support small businesses. Then small businesses can pay $26/hr for their workers.

Because this money being paid to the HGP workers comes mostly from selling bonds, it is adding to the national incomes without reducing incomes like a tax increase does. That is, people can't buy things in the economy with the money they paid in taxes. But, I'm positive Bluto is so deep in his imaginary fantasy world and info bubble that he can never grok all this.

On this site I have also called for laws to keep businesses from increasing prices beyond their costs to suck up this money. My suggestion was to "graduate" the corp income (aka profit) tax, and have a excess profits tax too. I would have 99% corp profits tax on profits over 1/3 of amazon's current profit, to make it break itself up.
Today I also called for protectionism to isolate the US economy from competition from low paid foreign workers like Pres. Washington did in the 1780s.
Today I also called for more aid to poor nations in the form of grants, not loans. For example, the World Bank could give a "grant/loan" where the nation only needs to pay back 10% of the total at 1% interest. The Fed, ECB, BoE, and BoJ, etc. would just give money to the World Bank to do this.

I have also suggested that international corps be taxed on their revenues paid to them in the US with the only deduction being wages paid to Americans in America. The rate might be around 3%, but I'm not sure what it should be. The intent with this is to make them pay on what they earn in the US, and not let them use bookkeeping tricks to move the profits to Ireland.
.

All you would need to do is increase the tax for corporations and the rich who make above X amount (higher minimum wage also hurts small businesses) and then give it to the lowest income earners without taxing it, say based on a monthly or bi-weekly payment to them. A straight wealth transfer. I'm in favor of this.

You don't seem to factor that stopping the importation of low-cost goods also raises the cost of living for everyone since goods are now more expensive. You also don't acknowledge that raising the minimum wage will raise the cost of goods and services for everyone, including the poor.

[Potemkin]

All you would need to do is increase the tax for corporations and the rich who make above X amount (higher minimum wage also hurts small businesses) and then give it to the lowest income earners without taxing it, say based on a monthly or bi-weekly payment to them. A straight wealth transfer. I'm in favor of this.

All that would happen is that the employers would reduce the salaries they offer such people, since the workers could still survive on a lower salary because of the government handouts. This already happens to some extent with Walmart and Macdonalds and food stamps. As I keep telling people, employers only pay just enough to their workers to keep them turning up for work every morning, and not a penny more. If you give the workers free handouts, the employers will effectively confiscate it from them by lowering their salaries. You may as well just transfer the money directly to the bank accounts of Walmart et al., and cut out the middle man.

You don't seem to factor that stopping the importation of low-cost goods also raises the cost of living for everyone since goods are now more expensive. You also don't acknowledge that raising the minimum wage will raise the cost of goods and services for everyone, including the poor.

Both of these statements are correct, but the first is by far the most important. Tariffs were used to protect fledgeling industries from foreign competition back in the 18th century, and they worked. Once the industries had become established within the nation-state, the protective tariffs could be removed. But the cost of protecting those fledgeling industries was that the consumers paid higher prices for those goods. It was the right policy, but like all good policies it came with a price tag.

[Steve_American]

All you would need to do is increase the tax for corporations and the rich who make above X amount (higher minimum wage also hurts small businesses) and then give it to the lowest income earners without taxing it, say based on a monthly or bi-weekly payment to them. A straight wealth transfer. I'm in favor of this.

You don't seem to factor that stopping the importation of low-cost goods also raises the cost of living for everyone since goods are now more expensive. You also don't acknowledge that raising the minimum wage will raise the cost of goods and services for everyone, including the poor.

You may be right. It will adjust. There will be more workers working in the US so we are not dependent on ships bringing everything here we want to buy. It may be necessary to raise the socially inclusive wage. Note: it must not keep increasing to keep up with inflation. That is how you cause inflation, then turn it hyper.

But, did you factor how paying the current unemployed 3 times as much to some useful work will pump more money into small towns as well as cities. If the wage is socially inclusive, tht means more rural kids can live in their home towns. At least longer.
.

[Unthinking Majority]

All that would happen is that the employers would reduce the salaries they offer such people, since the workers could still survive on a lower salary because of the government handouts. This already happens to some extent with Walmart and Macdonalds and food stamps. As I keep telling people, employers only pay just enough to their workers to keep them turning up for work every morning, and not a penny more. If you give the workers free handouts, the employers will effectively confiscate it from them by lowering their salaries. You may as well just transfer the money directly to the bank accounts of Walmart et al., and cut out the middle man.

Walmart et al. can't lower wages below the minimum wage though.

[Potemkin]

Walmart et al. can't lower wages below the minimum wage though.

Those damn commies in the gubmint....

[Rancid]

Those damn commies in the gubmint....

SHUT YOU DIRTY COMMIE!

[Steve_American]

All you would need to do is increase the tax for corporations and the rich who make above X amount (higher minimum wage also hurts small businesses) and then give it to the lowest income earners without taxing it, say based on a monthly or bi-weekly payment to them. A straight wealth transfer. I'm in favor of this.

You don't seem to factor that stopping the importation of low-cost goods also raises the cost of living for everyone since goods are now more expensive. You also don't acknowledge that raising the minimum wage will raise the cost of goods and services for everyone, including the poor.

UM, you don't seem the grok that $25/hr is 4 times $7.25/hr. So, all of the poor will have incomes 4 times larger. Businesses with have more customers so they sell more with the same fixed costs. So, the things those businesses sell don't need to cost 4 times more.

Yes, IMHO, it would also be necessary to have policies, like tax policies, that block or discourage the rich from just raising their rents and other prices beyond what they need to because their costs have increased. An example is an excess profits tax.

An excess profits tax seems like a no brainer to me. For example, I saw reports that businessmen felt like they had been denied some profits during the lockdowns, and so they felt like they ought to be able to use their power to increase their profits now to get the profits they were denied before. Compare that attitude with their attitude if workers had felt like they had been denied wages during the lockdowns, and so the workers felt like they should be given new power by the Gov. to demand wage increases now to make up for the wages they didn't earn during the lockdowns.

Right now I'm seeing reports that the main driver of inflation is the excess profits being made by monopoly businesses because they have taken advantage of the situation and increased what they charge more than is necessary to cover their increased costs. An excess profits tax policy would keep them from doing this.

Yes, I know that the advanced nations pretty much all have the best Gov. that big corps can buy with their money. So, most of what I'm calling for is off the table. That doesn't make it wrong.

BTW, Unthinking Majority, you said last week that I am not open to evidence that I'm wrong. My reply was to deny that, and point out that nobody has shown me any evidence that I'm wrong. You have not come forward with any evidence. Yes, I did say that I would reject all testimony by MS economists that is just based on their MS econ. theory and not on actual facts about reality. You can try to undercut that rejection by providing evidence that shows that MS econ. theory is based on looking at reality and uses inductive (that is science-like) reasoning and not using deductive (math-like) logic where it starts with many obviously false premises.
.

[BlutoSays]

Joe Biden tells everyone we have zero percent inflation

So Joe, if we have zero percent inflation, why did we need an Inflation Reduction Act?

[Rancid]

So Joe, if we have zero percent inflation, why did we need an Inflation Reduction Act?

Wow, you really are a dumb ass.
It's 0% increase not 0% inflation. The inflation rate is still 8.5% the last two periods of measurement. Inflation is still happening. 0% increase means no change in the existing 8.5%.

The 0% say's it's not getting worse. Could be a sign of a reverse in the coming months (or not).

[BlutoSays]

Wow, you really are a dumb ass.
It's 0% increase not 0% inflation. The inflation rate is still 8.5% the last two periods of measurement. Inflation is still happening. 0% increase means no change in the existing 8.5%.

The 0% say's it's not getting worse. Could be a sign of a reverse in the coming months (or not).

WHAT DID BIDEN STATE?

[Potemkin]

WHAT DID BIDEN STATE?

Biden misspoke, as he often does. George W. Bush also misspoke on numerous occasions. He once memorably complained that, “They misunderestimated me.” Why doesn’t Biden get the same free pass you gave Dubya Bush?

[Rancid]

WHAT DID BIDEN STATE?

I'm all for getting rid of Biden, but you're still a jackass.

Biden misspoke, as he often does. George W. Bush also misspoke on numerous occasions. He once memorably complained that, “They misunderestimated me.” Why doesn’t Biden get the same free pass you gave Dubya Bush?

Indeed. We're talking about Bluto though. Harps on every dumb little shit from "the dems", and gives a pass to a treasonous piece of shit like Trump. Bluto is a fucking moron. The guy gives a pass to a man that tried to overthrow the government. Bluto is an honorless piece of shit.

[BlutoSays]

No. Democrats overthrew the government.

[BlutoSays]

Heckuva Job, Brandon!