Russia-Ukraine War 2022 - Page 364 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15243357
Sandzak wrote:Ukrainian partisans play a vital role.

True. And the fighting spirit of the Ukrainians has only been stoked by Russia's atrocities.
As we see in Kerson or Melitopol, russians are not safe anywhere in Ukraine. Also see Crimea.

Even fighting russians themselves somehow understand what they are told to do has no real basis. They are there for the money. Like Wagner.

‘I don’t see justice in this war’: Russian soldier exposes rot at core of Ukraine invasion
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... e-invasion

‘They turned us into savages’: Russian describes start of Ukraine invasion
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... e-invasion

edit: Some fascinating read b.t.w.
User avatar
By Wels
#15243358
Igor Antunov wrote:'muh counter fensive.'
Ah yes the meme lives on. Meanwhile in the real world Russia keeps gaining ground. Donbas is a done deal. After that Odessa becomes the focus.

Kyyiv has no interest in attacking Kherson just now. They do not have enough troops, Russia with its own casualties has clearly shown this. Ukraine does not apply the tactics of the 1970ies.
"Already last week there were rumors that the regional military leadership of the Russians fled from Kherson to the safer eastern side of the Dnipro River. Will more Russian troops soon follow?"
With russian support cut they only have to wait to make the russian position untenable.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15243381
Wels wrote:Kyyiv has no interest in attacking Kherson just now. They do not have enough troops, Russia with its own casualties has clearly shown this. Ukraine does not apply the tactics of the 1970ies.
"Already last week there were rumors that the regional military leadership of the Russians fled from Kherson to the safer eastern side of the Dnipro River. Will more Russian troops soon follow?"
With russian support cut they only have to wait to make the russian position untenable.


Indeed, Ukraine isn't as dumb and careless as Russia and Igor is. The Ukrainian armed forces actually has respect for it's members and won't throw them in willy nilly like Russia does. Instead, they will bleed out their resources, as their economy also weakens internally. Only when it make sense, they will actually send forces in.

I wonder when will Russia stop "tolerating" in Igor's words, all of these explosions in Crimea. :lol:
#15243404
In most of the posts in this thread, there is absolutely no political content or personal insight.
It's like reading cheerleading calls for 400 pages.
Four-hundred of pages of "Gimme a W! I wanna a W!"

As an example:

Rancid wrote:Indeed, Ukraine isn't as dumb and careless as Russia and Igor is.

So this briefly says: "Russia dumb, Ukraine Smart." Right?
When I was three, I argued using this kind of dependent and independent variables. Not so much since then, though.

The Ukrainian armed forces actually has respect for it's members and won't throw them in willy nilly like Russia does.

Yes, like in Hollywood movies, one army's soldiers are honest and hardworking like in Norman Rockwell paintings, while the other army's soldiers are pure evil and craziness - like heavy metal blacklight posters.

Instead, they will bleed out their resources, as their economy also weakens internally. Only when it make sense, they will actually send forces in.

Let's talk about how our very own societies are bleeing their own economies out and what this means for the future of ordinary people like you and me.

I wonder when will Russia stop "tolerating" in Igor's words, all of these explosions in Crimea. :lol:

This last line tells everyone that you watch the news and are addicted to the constant stream of information - and yet have no personal insight with which to interpret it.

Sorry for singling you out, Rancid:
This whole thread is kind of toilet water quality... it's not just your posts in it.
#15243419
QatzelOk wrote:In most of the posts in this thread, there is absolutely no political content or personal insight.

"War is a continuation of politics by other means [...]." (Clausewitz, of course)
The first post of this thread starts with a propaganda lie that resembles the attack on Poland in 1939 "Seit 5 Uhr 45 wird jetzt zurueck geschossen".
It's like reading cheerleading calls for 400 pages.
Four-hundred of pages of "Gimme a W! I wanna a W!"

But all you get is a
Image
#15243439
Rancid wrote:Indeed, Ukraine isn't as dumb and careless as Russia and Igor is. The Ukrainian armed forces actually has respect for it's members and won't throw them in willy nilly like Russia does. Instead, they will bleed out their resources, as their economy also weakens internally. Only when it make sense, they will actually send forces in.

Actually Ukraine has been sacrificing enormous numbers of its soldiers. The political leadership has repeatedly refused to sanction withdrawals from exposed positions when it has been requested by the military dealership. Earlier in the war the general in charge of the Kherson front was sacked for refusing to engage in futile attacks. His replacement made those attacks and they resulted in the predicted huge loss of life for minimal gains. The Kherson offensives stopped because they ran out of troops.

Both the Russian and Ukrainian armies are very much children of the Soviets, Bureaucratic, corrupt, incompetent and rigid. on both sides of this conflict it has been the "private enterprise" forces, the Wagner group, Azov formation etc that have proved to be the most militarily flexible and capable. Both sides forces are clearly modeled on the German Frei Korps of post World War I. one of the Ukrainian groups even calls themselves the Frei Korps.

The Ukrainian soldiers certainly have a high level of motivation, the Western media is not lying about that, but that doesn't mean that that the Ukrainian armed forces are not poor.
User avatar
By Wels
#15243441
Mistakes have been made on all sides, i take it Ukraine did not have the same experience like Russia when it comes to wage war, at least initially.
Also, fury is counter-productive in a war, even if it is a legitimate reaction to an invasion.

^ I do not quite agree with the Freikorps, but it is rather about definition and i guess I know what you mean.
How would you label the chechens, i mean those 'Kadyrovka' who (currently) fight for Russia?
By Rugoz
#15243442
Rich wrote:Earlier in the war the general in charge of the Kherson front was sacked for refusing to engage in futile attacks. His replacement made those attacks and they resulted in the predicted huge loss of life for minimal gains. The Kherson offensives stopped because they ran out of troops.


I want to see a source.

Rich wrote:Both the Russian and Ukrainian armies are very much children of the Soviets, Bureaucratic, corrupt, incompetent and rigid. on both sides of this conflict it has been the "private enterprise" forces, the Wagner group, Azov formation etc that have proved to be the most militarily flexible and capable. Both sides forces are clearly modeled on the German Frei Korps of post World War I. one of the Ukrainian groups even calls themselves the Frei Korps.


The Ukrainian army after 2014 has been reorganized to NATO standards.

Rich wrote:The Ukrainian soldiers certainly have a high level of motivation, the Western media is not lying about that, but that doesn't mean that that the Ukrainian armed forces are not poor.


It's not poor. I lacks offensive capabilities because it is not trained for that*. The focus was on defense.

*According to a Ukrainian colonel.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15243464
Rich wrote:Actually Ukraine has been sacrificing enormous numbers of its soldiers. The political leadership has repeatedly refused to sanction withdrawals from exposed positions when it has been requested by the military dealership. Earlier in the war the general in charge of the Kherson front was sacked for refusing to engage in futile attacks. His replacement made those attacks and they resulted in the predicted huge loss of life for minimal gains. The Kherson offensives stopped because they ran out of troops.

Both the Russian and Ukrainian armies are very much children of the Soviets, Bureaucratic, corrupt, incompetent and rigid. on both sides of this conflict it has been the "private enterprise" forces, the Wagner group, Azov formation etc that have proved to be the most militarily flexible and capable. Both sides forces are clearly modeled on the German Frei Korps of post World War I. one of the Ukrainian groups even calls themselves the Frei Korps.

The Ukrainian soldiers certainly have a high level of motivation, the Western media is not lying about that, but that doesn't mean that that the Ukrainian armed forces are not poor.


What data do you have to support this?

Also, when do you think Ukraine will collapse then?
#15243487
Rich wrote:Actually Ukraine has been sacrificing enormous numbers of its soldiers. The political leadership has repeatedly refused to sanction withdrawals from exposed positions when it has been requested by the military dealership. ...

Ukraine is a poor, disorganized country run by a mafia.

The current "leadership" of Ukraine was formed during a coup that was funded by a foreign country's mafia.

This Western War of Desperation... can't end well for the hapless Ukrainians, and the foreign mafia cares even less about them than their own "internal" mafia.
#15243496
Rancid wrote:Also, when do you think Ukraine will collapse then?

It may never collapse, but I certainly don't see it collapsing anytime soon. i don't follow the pro Russian media channels, but I do get to hear indirectly some of their talking points. For example there seems to some be excitement around Kharkov. In my view there is nothing to be excited about. Kharkov is totally secure from capture.

I did a crude calculation that I might well have got wrong just using one data point. In 6 months the Russians have pushed the eastern most point of the front line about 150 Km west. That means if they carry on at the same rate of progress it would take another three and a half years to conquer Ukraine. But in fact the Russian pace of advance has slowed considerably. since the first month of the war.

I could be wrong but I suspect western leadership has actually got the war where they want it. They have slowed the Russian advances down to a snail pace, but they haven't backed Putin into a corner. I suspect that behind the scenes they want to compromise. The problem with the HIMARs is that they were too successful. The West may well choke off the supply of ammunition for them. It would be very difficult for Putin to settle without the rest of Donetsk oblast. At the very least he has to push the front line away from Donetsk city.
Last edited by Rich on 18 Aug 2022 19:56, edited 1 time in total.
By Rich
#15243501
Rugoz wrote:It's not poor. I lacks offensive capabilities because it is not trained for that*. The focus was on defense.

An army that can't advance is poor almost by definition. Good defense requires active defense. Active defense means the ability to conduct local offensives. It forces the enemy to disperse their forces along the whole front. Active defense allows you to punish the enemy severely, when they overreach.
#15243510
Rancid wrote:@Igor Antunov, @Independent_Srpska

You guys still enjoying that Putin Big Dick cum energy in your mouth?


:lol: :lol:

Dude, according to your squealing - it looks like Putin is plowing your NATO a$$ big time :D and you like it!
#15243517
Rancid wrote:@Igor Antunov, @Independent_Srpska

You guys still enjoying that Putin Big Dick cum energy in your mouth?



They are Bosnian Serbs, blind fanatics, but where they originated people die by starvation. The Federation offers at least 100 bucks (enough for vegetarian survival).


They hope after Ukraine, Putin will give a gift, Great-Serbia.
#15243525
Sandzak wrote:

They are Bosnian Serbs, blind fanatics, but where they originated people die by starvation. The Federation offers at least 100 bucks (enough for vegetarian survival).


They hope after Ukraine, Putin will give a gift, Great-Serbia.


oh right, so they're basically imperialist scum bags.
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