[Robert Urbanek]

Lifeforce is a 1985 British science fiction film about three humanoids who drain the “lifeforce” from humans and create a vampire epidemic in which, every few hours, each affected human must drain the lifeforce of another human to stay alive. This drained energy, in turn, is directed up to an alien spaceship, hovering over London, which is populated by bat-like creatures.

In one scene, the hero and a companion visit a command center where the prime minister assures them he is in control of the battle against the vampires. However, he seems agitated and excuses himself to interview a new aide. The visitors suspect something is amiss and follow the prime minister, who behind a semi-transparent screen, can be seen draining the lifeforce from a woman.

The scene is a perfect metaphor for politics. Desperate leaders who claim to be in control of a crisis hide behind a curtain of lies or retreat to a backroom where they drain the sexual energy of an intern or drain the pocketbooks of special interest groups.

[QatzelOk]

The scene is a perfect metaphor for politics. Desperate leaders who claim to be in control of a crisis hide behind a curtain of lies or retreat to a backroom where they drain the sexual energy of an intern or drain the pocketbooks of special interest groups.

Yes, I can see how greed has replaced social cohesion, and has created a kind of financial vampire managing elite.

Could it be that the sublimation of hunting (under patriarchy since the neolithic revolution) created generalized human cannibalism?

Is that what competitive society is, the hunting of other humans?

[Robert Urbanek]

Yes, I can see how greed has replaced social cohesion, and has created a kind of financial vampire managing elite.

Could it be that the sublimation of hunting (under patriarchy since the neolithic revolution) created generalized human cannibalism?

Is that what competitive society is, the hunting of other humans?

I saw the “leadership crisis” in Lifeforce as more of a commentary on climate chaos. Leaders, particularly Democrats, assure the public that things will return to normal if we follow the right policies. We don’t have to make any personal sacrifices. In fact, things are deteriorating rapidly and there will be no “return to normal.” Many Republicans deny that there is any human-caused climate problem at all, which is a whole different kind of craziness.

You are free to apply Lifeforce as a metaphor of your choice. Some, for example, might see the “vampire riot” in the movie as a metaphor for urban violence or as a metaphor for the January 6 insurrection. I don’t see the film as a metaphor for hunting.

[ckaihatsu]

Yes, I can see how greed has replaced social cohesion, and has created a kind of financial vampire managing elite.

Could it be that the sublimation of hunting (under patriarchy since the neolithic revolution) created generalized human cannibalism?

Is that what competitive society is, the hunting of other humans?

You're gonna *love* 'True Blood'.

I saw the “leadership crisis” in Lifeforce as more of a commentary on climate chaos. Leaders, particularly Democrats, assure the public that things will return to normal if we follow the right policies. We don’t have to make any personal sacrifices. In fact, things are deteriorating rapidly and there will be no “return to normal.” Many Republicans deny that there is any human-caused climate problem at all, which is a whole different kind of craziness.

You are free to apply Lifeforce as a metaphor of your choice. Some, for example, might see the “vampire riot” in the movie as a metaphor for urban violence or as a metaphor for the January 6 insurrection. I don’t see the film as a metaphor for hunting.

Speaking-of, there's a thread going on right now about *Saudi Arabia*....


Saudi-British woman sentenced to 34 years for political posts on internet

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=182514

[QatzelOk]

...there's a thread going on right now about *Saudi Arabia*....


Saudi-British woman sentenced to 34 years for political posts on internet

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=182514

I suppose that you could consider "Patriarchy," "Abrahamic Social Coercion techniques," "Fascism," and "Oligarchy" as a gang of Political Lifeforce-drainers.

Maybe Civilization itself sucks all the goodwill and survivability out of humanity.

[ckaihatsu]

I suppose that you could consider "Patriarchy," "Abrahamic Social Coercion techniques," "Fascism," and "Oligarchy" as a gang of Political Lifeforce-drainers.

Maybe Civilization itself sucks all the goodwill and survivability out of humanity.

Doubled-edged sword -- more to live for, more to lose, more to go-wrong.

The social *history* of humanity to-date has left-room-for-improvement, shall we say, but look at *science* (technology) and culture, too, resulting from the development of societal agriculture and surplus production.


Civilization - Humanity Framework

Spoiler: show

This is 'civilization', btw:


Social Production Worldview

Spoiler: show

[QatzelOk]

Doubled-edged sword -- more to live for, more to lose, more to go-wrong.

Is this it, or is more that the "extensions and amputations" of every technology are like Russian Roulette with survival?

One of these technological "extensions" might "amputate" our survival, if Marshal Mcluhan's words mean anything at all.

And this is a very dire warning, on his part.

[ckaihatsu]

Is this it, or is more that the "extensions and amputations" of every technology are like Russian Roulette with survival?

One of these technological "extensions" might "amputate" our survival, if Marshal Mcluhan's words mean anything at all.

And this is a very dire warning, on his part.

I never *liked* McLuhan, but maybe you can provide something from him here.

You're saying that the media 'instrument' itself can't really be 'fixed', and we're *doomed* to be forever balkanized down to individual atomism, and away from any effective societal agency -- like current international labor rail strikes, for example.

Sorry -- still too doom-and-gloom for my tastes, but, hey, I'm just one guy.

[QatzelOk]

I never *liked* McLuhan, but maybe you can provide something from him here.

...The digital box extends the amount of channels sent on one signal, increasing the media coverage and which in turn “creates extensions of the human body and senses” according to McLuhan, every extension has an amputation.

The digital box is an over extension of the television, it has become part of television to extent senses and body for the masses. This has established a wider connection, forming a larger global tribe and opening up more space for information from the media to the senses. The demand for constant supply of content has distorted our global view, everything must be simultaneous and we must be involved in everything. Everything we must be involved in is shown on digital television...

Mcluhan spoke during the mid-20th Century about the newest technology of that time - television - as an extension of human consciousness that would lead to "amputations" of other, unspecified things.

To remain atop pop culture at the time, Mcluhan didn't really get into gloomy predictions about the amputations that the new TV-suburban world was producing.

But I would say that "community" was amputate there, and that this is very serious. Civilization-destroying, even. And newer technologies are amputating friendships, social skills, privacy, and a lot more.

Sorry -- still too doom-and-gloom for my tastes, but, hey, I'm just one guy.

The Garden of Eden story is also doom-and-gloom from your perspective, but extinction and lack of life fulfilment... would be even more gloomy and doomy, and maybe there are hints on how to avoid these in Mcluhan's words.

[ckaihatsu]

Mcluhan spoke during the mid-20th Century about the newest technology of that time - television - as an extension of human consciousness that would lead to "amputations" of other, unspecified things.

To remain atop pop culture at the time, Mcluhan didn't really get into gloomy predictions about the amputations that the new TV-suburban world was producing.

But I would say that "community" was amputate there, and that this is very serious. Civilization-destroying, even. And newer technologies are amputating friendships, social skills, privacy, and a lot more.



The Garden of Eden story is also doom-and-gloom from your perspective, but extinction and lack of life fulfilment... would be even more gloomy and doomy, and maybe there are hints on how to avoid these in Mcluhan's words.

Right -- so your *whole thing* is this Fordist-hell line, which is *understandable*, of course, but -- can't we just lop off the excess here, and call it the %$&#@$@! *media*, in the sense of it being the 'Fourth Estate' -- ? I'd never underestimate it, and McLuhan just looks like *fluff* around that core fact / institution of modern social life. (The Trumpists / Republicans have shown us how the media gets *commodified* / financialized into *pure revenue*, regardless of veracity of content.)

(My own pet theory right now is about how *chummy* the U.S. and Germany have been, historically -- I chalk it up to them both 'growing up together', into empire, right around the same time -- late 1800s+.)

[QatzelOk]

Right -- so your *whole thing* is this Fordist-hell line, which is *understandable*, of course, but -- can't we just lop off the excess here, and call it the %$&#@$@! *media*, in the sense of it being the 'Fourth Estate' -- ? I'd never underestimate it, and McLuhan just looks like *fluff* around that core fact / institution of modern social life. (The Trumpists / Republicans have shown us how the media gets *commodified* / financialized into *pure revenue*, regardless of veracity of content.)

(My own pet theory right now is about how *chummy* the U.S. and Germany have been, historically -- I chalk it up to them both 'growing up together', into empire, right around the same time -- late 1800s+.)

More serious than the crappy content of TV and other media... Mcluhan warns us that media technology is very powerful, and that it, thus, amputates some very important things from human lives.

A cow that is hooked to *udder milking machinery* technology... will have its *freedom of movement* amputated. Farmers don't care about their cow's loss of autonomy, so this *amputation* is totally permitted because IT MAKES THE FARMER MONEY.

Likewise, the controlling classes (the elite) make money when they amputate basic life features from their pleb-slaves.

But if our empathy, communities, and desire to live have been amputated... this could be fatal from a *species survival* perspective.

[ckaihatsu]

More serious than the crappy content of TV and other media... Mcluhan warns us that media technology is very powerful, and that it, thus, amputates some very important things from human lives.

A cow that is hooked to *udder milking machinery* technology... will have its *freedom of movement* amputated. Farmers don't care about their cow's loss of autonomy, so this *amputation* is totally permitted because IT MAKES THE FARMER MONEY.

Likewise, the controlling classes (the elite) make money when they amputate basic life features from their pleb-slaves.

But if our empathy, communities, and desire to live have been amputated... this could be fatal from a *species survival* perspective.

Hey, I *hear* ya, for the most part, and you can *have* the 'turf' (of critiquing civilization). Sure, I can think of *alternatives*, readily, to how things are done today, so no prob there.

[QatzelOk]

Hey, I *hear* ya, for the most part, and you can *have* the 'turf' (of critiquing civilization). Sure, I can think of *alternatives*, readily, to how things are done today, so no prob there.

That's good news.

But do you see the importance of EVERY TECHNOLOGY being responsible for amputations of possibly life-essential components of human life?

This is the only justification that a Luddite would need.

[ckaihatsu]

That's good news.

But do you see the importance of EVERY TECHNOLOGY being responsible for amputations of possibly life-essential components of human life?

This is the only justification that a Luddite would need.

Fortunately I'm neither a Luddite nor anti-technology / anti-civilization.

If you want to go over technology pros-versus-cons, that's going to be a case-by-case process of evaluation.

[QatzelOk]

Fortunately I'm neither a Luddite nor anti-technology / anti-civilization.

If you want to go over technology pros-versus-cons, that's going to be a case-by-case process of evaluation.

What if humanity goes extinct while carefully examining each individual technology?

Won't we have wasted our existence by worshipping something that doesn't merit worship? (tech)

Isn't there a general principle here regarding the life-threatening *altering of natural cycles and balances* which EVERY technology disrupts eventually?

[ckaihatsu]

What if humanity goes extinct while carefully examining each individual technology?

Won't we have wasted our existence by worshipping something that doesn't merit worship? (tech)

Isn't there a general principle here regarding the life-threatening *altering of natural cycles and balances* which EVERY technology disrupts eventually?

Maybe you could elaborate on the 'worship' of tech -- would that be camping-out overnight for store openings for a new product (not me), or an emotional *overdependence* (again not me), like on fuzzy personal robots, or Sophia, or whatever -- ?

Is the end-user *consumer* so reckless, as you're making them out to be, that they become 'wasted' by technology, instead of *mastering* it, as we all should, and presumably *do*.

Or are you speaking nationalistically / geopolitically, as with the Cold War arms race and space race?

[QatzelOk]

Maybe you could elaborate on the 'worship' of tech...

This is the belief that Tech will save us.

Like the belief that Jesus will save us or that Zeus will save us.

Also, people defend even the most toxic of technologies (nuclear power, automobiles) as if they are defending the Virgin Mary and he mother Ann.

This is not a normal relationship with a social construct. It is worship, and it leads to brinkmanship and magical thinking in general - both of which can be extinction-inducing.

[ckaihatsu]

This is the belief that Tech will save us.

Like the belief that Jesus will save us or that Zeus will save us.

Also, people defend even the most toxic of technologies (nuclear power, automobiles) as if they are defending the Virgin Mary and he mother Ann.

This is not a normal relationship with a social construct. It is worship, and it leads to brinkmanship and magical thinking in general - both of which can be extinction-inducing.

Ohhhhh, you mean the 'technorati' (as I call it). (You could have just *said* that.)

Aside from them inadvertently creating Skynet -- as Google is closer to doing -- I wouldn't worry too much. I think the current fantasy is mining asteroids for minerals and space-catapulting stuff into deep-space.

Do you *really* know people, or know *of* people who think this way, that you're indicating? Like outright consumerist technological *fetishism*, to *religious* extents -- ?

[QatzelOk]

Ohhhhh, you mean the 'technorati'

No, I mean the way that normal people can be *amputated to extinction* by the individual and collective effects of the technology they interact with. In this case, media.

Do you *really* know people, or know *of* people who think this way, that you're indicating? Like outright consumerist technological *fetishism*, to *religious* extents -- ?

Television replaced church as a way of mass socialization and sharing of (fabricated) social norms. Rather than sexless - leper-washing sainthood, the techno-church-goer (tv-viewer) seeks to imitate the saints of technology and hyper-consumption.

And as in the case of the emotionally-charged story of the gods, the TV harnasses the emotions of the viewer to implant responses to things around him.

[ckaihatsu]

No, I mean the way that normal people can be *amputated to extinction* by the individual and collective effects of the technology they interact with. In this case, media.



Television replaced church as a way of mass socialization and sharing of (fabricated) social norms. Rather than sexless - leper-washing sainthood, the techno-church-goer (tv-viewer) seeks to imitate the saints of technology and hyper-consumption.

And as in the case of the emotionally-charged story of the gods, the TV harnasses the emotions of the viewer to implant responses to things around him.

Ehhhhhh, sorry, but it's *still* all 'Fourth Estate' to me -- at least we're not in regular *armed conflict* with each other, as in *feudal* times. Much is now decided through *economic* means, including what *I* call 'human sacrifice', through economic means.

(A very good example would be the current Fed raising of interest rates, which is the rewarding of *pre-existing* wealth in the economy (rentier-type capital), with government financial subsidies (higher rate-of-return / interest rate). Workers have to work, to create new values, which are taxed / partially-appropriated, with the tax revenue then partly going to reward that pre-existing rentier wealth -- human sacrifice, to property.)