Cuba has proven that capitalism and technology are failures - Page 114 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

All general discussion about politics that doesn't belong in any of the other forums.

Moderator: PoFo Political Circus Mods

#15249740
XogGyux wrote:The thing is, if you gonna say the fall in US expectancy is due to the pandemic, Cuba should also experience the same, the pandemic was everywhere. So that is a normalizing factor. Bullshit that they had better outcome than we did.
There are many reasons you could explain the differences. The American population is not particularly healthy, we have $$ and thus we suffer from a lot of conditions that come with high-calorie foods and sedentary lifestyles that we can afford, and also infant mortality. In the US there is legal/taboo issues with abortion, this is problematic for statistics, because if you have more High-risk pregnancies and birth, you will also have higher mother mortality and infant mortality rates. This is not a reflection of the medical capacity of either country, this is just a reflection of cultural and political situation, and it has nothing to do with technological failures or the economical system of the country.
But more importantly than explaining away a statistic.... Cuba and other dictatorial governments, are liars, they lie about anything and everything, even those things that nobody would care if you lied about. Cuba have been manufacturiing statistics for ages.

Perhaps embargo is more accurate but bloqueo is not necessarily incorrect, they are the US is banning certain products/diplomatic/economic activities with the island which in essence is a block of those activities and thus a bloqueo. I don't take much issue with that term and in any event it would be in the realm of semantics more than anything.


How many people did COVID kill in Cuba?

"Bloqueo" and "embargo" have specific meanings. Claiming Cuba suffers from a "bloqueo" is to claim it is being victim of an act of war.
#15249772
XogGyux wrote:Yeah, cuba is better off now, now nobody have private planes...

Yes, and nobody lives in a plywood box that slides into human shit when it rains.

If private planes for the few mean house-in-shit for the many... then they are a bad idea.
Why don't you get this?

wat0n wrote:Also, the fall in US life expectancy is primarily due to the pandemic.

Cuba's lifespan passed the US before the pandemic. It's a long-term trend.
And what's really significant about this, is that Cubans live a lot longer and yet use one twentieth of the resources that Americans do (per capita).

China also passed the USA lifespan recently with less than half the consumption per capita.

But the USA is still capable of shortening lifespans in places like Syria, Libya, and among its own African population.

Perhaps shortening lifestyles is what the USA does best. The First Nations would certainly see it this way.
#15249795
QatzelOk wrote:Yes, and nobody lives in a plywood box that slides into human shit when it rains.

Bullshit, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
Do you know what a solar is? Do you know how Orientals (who are illegals in the western part of the country) live when they move to the capital? Imagine that... a floridian that moves to texas and is considered an illegal and unable to legally live there and have to live at the side of a river in a makeshift campament...
Do you know what a bohio is?
You clearly don't have a fucking clue of what cuba is. Your obsession blinds you.

If private planes for the few mean house-in-shit for the many... then they are a bad idea.
Why don't you get this?

Private plane this private plane that. The Cuban system does not solve ANY problem, yet creates many problems of its own. It is an inferior system, PERIOD. Taking planes from rich people did not solve cubans extreme poverty, they are still poor as shit. Taking planes from rich did not solve hunger, people still go hungry in cuba. You are portraying a delution.
Cuba is not a classless system. In cuba they have different classes. Fine,.... it is not a traditional monarchy with a king and a queen, but there is still a ruling class that get away with all their shit while the plebs work their assess off. Cuba does not solve any problem, it just creates new ones and dazzles wanna-be-online-che-guevaras on the internet into talking shit.
#15250682
XogGyux wrote:The Cuban system does not solve ANY problem...

You are claiming this because, for you, poor people's houses sliding into shit when it rains... isn't a problem.

You have no empathy for the masses who live this way, and this makes YOU a problem for other Cubans.

Lack of empathy... is a result of many things, but especially income inequality. But lack of empathy is extremely serious and leads to mass death and atrocities.

So it's best you don't still live in Cuba with your lack of empathy. Perhaps the USA and its socially-isolating suburbs is a better fit for you.
#15250683
QatzelOk wrote:Cuba's lifespan passed the US before the pandemic. It's a long-term trend.
And what's really significant about this, is that Cubans live a lot longer and yet use one twentieth of the resources that Americans do (per capita).


Not true as far as I'm aware. Both countries had similar life expectancies before the pandemic, according to each government.

QatzelOk wrote:China also passed the USA lifespan recently with less than half the consumption per capita.


"Recently" because the US is recognizing the drop due to the pandemic, which I don't know if other countries are (yet).
#15250690
XogGyux wrote:
Of course they do and they will. Wether this excuse will change the protester's mind its another question entirely. Probably not, they have grown to hear the same tune over and over. But remember when husband and wife are fighting, if you try to interrupt, chances are they will put aside their differences and shout at you. As far as I can tell, the blockade only works to allow the goverment to have all the cards.
Let family seind their loved ones a few hundred bucks or perhaps a toursit spend some time in the hotel or perhaps cocacola sell some products there. That will accentuate the difference between the people that have $$ and those that do not have $$. How did revolutions happen? When people realize that they have been cheated out of oportunity.
It is sad to cheer for some sort of confrontations between cubans brothers and sisters, but it will have to happen before their system changes. Blood was spilled to institute Castro's dictatorship, I suspect blood will be spilled before his legacy can be erased. I hope not, but again, im a cynic guy.

Most importantly... has the embargo been successful at anything? Other than making the US look fucking stupid and impotent, it has not succeeded. There is no point to it.


Well Xog, I must agree on this with you. The embargo has not made much of a difference. I do socialize a lot with a lot of Cubans in Mexico. The ones who leave looking for pesos and jobs. Many are doctors here. I love a lot of them to tell you the truth. Cuban medical doctors living in Mexico, working at consultorios for Farmacias Similares.

The problem is not making money. Lack of opportunities.

My family doctor is called Dr Oscar. His first name and his two last names I keep private eh? He is a Mexican family doctor. I adore that man. He charges me 200 pesos Mexican for a consult, his meds for me, and a plan for treatment. For my foot and a battery of tests. His father is New Mexican from New Mexico, and is a criminal lawyer. His Dad is a US citizen and he can move to the USA at any time and make money there as a doctor. Recertify for his medical degree and so on. He does not. He finds meaning in his job of medical doctor for families in his pharmacy over here and his consultorio. What does the guy think? That doctors need to be in the profession to help patients. Not to make money. The distortion of BIG Pharma in making people pay out of the nose for everything in the USA sucks. It is a bad system. He argues that the Mexican government in the past would go and steal hard-to-obtain meds. They would steal government funds for the expensive meds. But the Mexican government has universal health care in all major cities. It is not the kind of super expensive stuff that you see in private health care in the USA. He had a lot of interesting opinions.

As for the Cuban doctors? I think they deserve middle-class lifestyles. In every country. They should not be in deep debt and problems in the USA and struggling over there. Most are well off in the USA. But they don't make billionaire money. They don't make hedge fund manager money with the Bloomberg stock apps either.

People need basic goods and services. They need to be able to buy some new mattresses and underwear, and variations of consumer items. And they need to be able to live decently. Poverty is no picnic and anyone who thinks it is doesn't get that poverty makes life hard for a lot of people. But over consumerism and greed destroys the profession of being a doctor.

I love Dr Oscar. He is a humanist, he doesn't want to live the life of a millionaire. He wants a great education for his 14 year old son. He wants a balance between his career and his family's private life. I think @XogGyux wants the same.

I think Mexicans recycle more and they try hard. Cubans are beautiful people. I have come to know them more here in Mexico. Many want to go to Miami because they think they will make more there...be living up the style of life they are peddled.

In the end? What counts in life is LOVE. Loving each other, and sharing your life. Having opportunities for self-development and working for something better. Seeing improvements. Loving your land and your earth. Your culture.

That embargo is a dismal failure. It has not benefitted anyone. Not the Cubans struggling for consumer goods and middle-class wages and lifestyles, or the American gringo politicians hoping to pressure the Cuban government enough to go back to Uncle Sam dictating everything in Havana. The US gov't needs to stop trying to control Latin America from afar and the Cubans need to realize the Cubans want the ability to live without having to give up personal freedoms or being able to buy goods and services. Balance. And freedom.

What everyone is looking for. Not greed and not want. Not the extremes of deprivations or the excesses of overconsumption.
#15250703
QatzelOk wrote:You are claiming this because, for you, poor people's houses sliding into shit when it rains... isn't a problem.


And you think Cuban People's houses don't slide into shit when it rains? ROFL Cuban houses and buildings also crumble and fall and get destroyed when hurricanes come, at the same rate if not worse than those in florida. The difference is, cuban people cannot buy houses and repairing/rebuiliding anything in cuba is extremely difficult if not impossible.
In the US I might lose power for a day, maybe two. A bad hurricane might come with a power cut of a week or two and that is on the extreme. In cuba, you are garanteed to lose power for at least a week on most of the people. A few lucky bastards that happen to live near economical zones or touristical sounds might get it a bit earlier, a few days.
This is not a matter of "oh, power is convenient". This is a matter of survival in most/all cases. You need power to pump water to drink or to clean it so it does not kill you, you need power to cook and eat, etc.
You are delusional if you think the Cuban system is superior. The only thing that the cuban system is superior at is at making people's lives misserable.

You have no empathy for the masses who live this way, and this makes YOU a problem for other Cubans.

You are mistaken. I have plenty of empathy and sympathy. I lived that system unlike you. It is crap. Honestly I wish there was a way to force you to put your money were your mouth is and send you to live like a cuban for a decade or so. Too focking bad that this world is not fair, otherwise we could trade your spot in an industrialized democratic country by one of the millions of cubans that would gladly trade a limb to get out of that empobrished, repressive piece of crap that Cuba is.

Lack of empathy... is a result of many things, but especially income inequality.

That, might have been the only thing that Cuba has managed to do. They managed to get a country that had poor and rich people and make a country that oly has poor people.
The leader class is not rich in money $$ (at least not always), they are "rich" in their capacity to leverage their position in their favor... to "asign" a goverment vehicle to themselves, or an apartment, or travel...

So it's best you don't still live in Cuba with your lack of empathy. Perhaps the USA and its socially-isolating suburbs is a better fit for you.

Perfect. I am happy with this arrangement.
#15250725
Tainari88 wrote:Well Xog, I must agree on this with you. The embargo has not made much of a difference. I do socialize a lot with a lot of Cubans in Mexico. The ones who leave looking for pesos and jobs. Many are doctors here. I love a lot of them to tell you the truth. Cuban medical doctors living in Mexico, working at consultorios for Farmacias Similares.

The problem is not making money. Lack of opportunities.

My family doctor is called Dr Oscar. His first name and his two last names I keep private eh? He is a Mexican family doctor. I adore that man. He charges me 200 pesos Mexican for a consult, his meds for me, and a plan for treatment. For my foot and a battery of tests. His father is New Mexican from New Mexico, and is a criminal lawyer. His Dad is a US citizen and he can move to the USA at any time and make money there as a doctor. Recertify for his medical degree and so on. He does not. He finds meaning in his job of medical doctor for families in his pharmacy over here and his consultorio. What does the guy think? That doctors need to be in the profession to help patients. Not to make money. The distortion of BIG Pharma in making people pay out of the nose for everything in the USA sucks. It is a bad system. He argues that the Mexican government in the past would go and steal hard-to-obtain meds. They would steal government funds for the expensive meds. But the Mexican government has universal health care in all major cities. It is not the kind of super expensive stuff that you see in private health care in the USA. He had a lot of interesting opinions.

As for the Cuban doctors? I think they deserve middle-class lifestyles. In every country. They should not be in deep debt and problems in the USA and struggling over there. Most are well off in the USA. But they don't make billionaire money. They don't make hedge fund manager money with the Bloomberg stock apps either.

People need basic goods and services. They need to be able to buy some new mattresses and underwear, and variations of consumer items. And they need to be able to live decently. Poverty is no picnic and anyone who thinks it is doesn't get that poverty makes life hard for a lot of people. But over consumerism and greed destroys the profession of being a doctor.

I love Dr Oscar. He is a humanist, he doesn't want to live the life of a millionaire. He wants a great education for his 14 year old son. He wants a balance between his career and his family's private life. I think @XogGyux wants the same.

I think Mexicans recycle more and they try hard. Cubans are beautiful people. I have come to know them more here in Mexico. Many want to go to Miami because they think they will make more there...be living up the style of life they are peddled.

In the end? What counts in life is LOVE. Loving each other, and sharing your life. Having opportunities for self-development and working for something better. Seeing improvements. Loving your land and your earth. Your culture.

That embargo is a dismal failure. It has not benefitted anyone. Not the Cubans struggling for consumer goods and middle-class wages and lifestyles, or the American gringo politicians hoping to pressure the Cuban government enough to go back to Uncle Sam dictating everything in Havana. The US gov't needs to stop trying to control Latin America from afar and the Cubans need to realize the Cubans want the ability to live without having to give up personal freedoms or being able to buy goods and services. Balance. And freedom.

What everyone is looking for. Not greed and not want. Not the extremes of deprivations or the excesses of overconsumption.


That's fine. I don't question the existence of generally good people or people that are quite content with a sustainable, average (neither luxurious nor dirt poor) lifestyle. What is irritant, is to have a self-flagellating hypocrite that spends his life whining about everything and everyone.
The US is not a perfect country, Neither are all other "western" countries but I promess you something, it is about as good as it get on this planet at this period in time. There is a reason he is posting his whining from a western country and not from Belarus, North Korea, Cuba, China, Russia, Venezuela. Those places are shitholes and he certainly does not want to live in any of those places anymore than I do or you do. Do we have a perfect system? Hell now. Offer CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, not endless obnoxious whining. Peace.
#15250736
XogGyux wrote:That's fine. I don't question the existence of generally good people or people that are quite content with a sustainable, average (neither luxurious nor dirt poor) lifestyle. What is irritant, is to have a self-flagellating hypocrite that spends his life whining about everything and everyone.
The US is not a perfect country, Neither are all other "western" countries but I promess you something, it is about as good as it get on this planet at this period in time. There is a reason he is posting his whining from a western country and not from Belarus, North Korea, Cuba, China, Russia, Venezuela. Those places are shitholes and he certainly does not want to live in any of those places anymore than I do or you do. Do we have a perfect system? Hell now. Offer CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, not endless obnoxious whining. Peace.


Who are you talking about @XogGyux ? Are you talking about @QatzelOk ? He was born in Canada. Quebec. He is a French and English speaking French Canadian. The Old Trudeau was a very close friend of Fidel Castro if my memory serves me correct.

I think your family chose to leave Cuba to get a better lifestyle and better opportunities. I never believe in you have to judge nations by how much money you can make there. I never went for that. I strictly get attracted to countries by their culture. I love culture. Cuba is rich in culture. So is Mexico and many other nations. That they have poor people? Yes, the vast majority. Are poor people. But the USA was and continues to ba nation of immigrants and of poor people immigrants. Everyone is into the scramble for getting the ones with educations, degrees and high energies and skills to contribute to their tax bases. I know Mexico wants me here because I have a steady income, I don't take money out of the mouth of the Mexicans and I pay taxes to Mexico. Every day.

All anyone sees in this nation if they value materialism @XogGyux is poverty or crime or some bullshit like that. What people should be seeing are human beings struggling for a better life. They have families they love, activities they enjoy, holidays they love, and traditions, history, language, and material goods and services, churches, science institutes. Everything. Mexico is a very old culture. Thousand upon thousands of years. Spain is old too also with long traditions.

I never saw the USA as the best the human race could come up with. They invaded Cuba, they invaded Puerto Rico, they invaded the Phillipines, they invaded Guam, and the list is very long XogGyux. They are an Empire. They cleansed the US states of Indians. You see a lot of Seminoles, and other ancient Floridian tribes running around? No. Cuba lost many Indian people to European diseases. The European got addicted to tabacco. They got syphillis. Humans circulate among each other. I never believed one of them were better than the other.

One culture is great and the others inferior. For me that is Nazi Master Race theory and it is invalid. What counts is figuring out why some nations have all the money and others live in relative poverty. Why? Systems. But why the imbalances and the lack of wealth distribution?

It is interesting. But the least moral people are always the ones with the most money. Lol. If we go by religious texts? It is all quite corrupt. The ones who own the gold and have the armies and the power....the ruler of those people are said to be the Satan in the desert from the bible. Lol. :D

I want a healthy world @XogGyux praising a nation that invaded a lot of nations in Latin America in a wild bid to wrest from the hands of Spain their last few remaining colonies to exploit the last of the colonial possessions in a trumped up war because the US needed sugar and land to grow it on? To say they do it for the love of democracy and it turns out to be a lie? No, I won't be singing the praises of such a government or its system. No matter how much 'success' and infrastructure they claim to have that is superior to all other nations.

All I see is hypocrisy. And since I love culture and I love human culture. And my life is not about some bulky furniture and a Bling Empire with gold Cadillacs. I see value in moderation and in not living over what the world can sustain. There has to be a point of satiation for all things of consumption.

I also see that people need electricity that is reliable, clean water, transportation and food and drink and savings, and homes and travel and life.

Basics. That the USA is admired because they got the means and so many other nations don't? I don't see that as the correct way of looking at things. I think why do we allow deprivation in so many places? Isn't it better to start helping each other out...instead of not caring? The not caring is the part we need to get rid of and replace it with real caring.
#15250746
Tainari88 wrote:Who are you talking about @XogGyux ? Are you talking about @QatzelOk ? He was born in Canada. Quebec. He is a French and English speaking French Canadian.

Precisely my point.

The Old Trudeau was a very close friend of Fidel Castro if my memory serves me correct.

I am not sure if that is true, but how would that even be relevant?

I think your family chose to leave Cuba to get a better lifestyle and better opportunities.

This is not some sort of "moving up the class ladder". In many cases this is literally about survival. @Tainari88 People have gone on makeshift boats made out of cardboard and old tires. They risk their lives, they take their children and jump into a home made device that barely floats and without GPS or any other fancy equipment, they start a 90 miles journey on the caribbean sea to flee their country.

I never believe in you have to judge nations by how much money you can make there.

That is not the point. I am not calling mexico a shithole because mexicans make less $$ than the US. There are plenty of countries that make less $$ but at least there is freedom, people can work and work up the ladder and don't have a government that is constantly trying to reinvent the wheel to make people's lives more miserable. Do you know about "becas en el campo" in cuba? I think finally they got phased out with the reforms that came after Fidel died, so this might not be the current issue. But for 4 decades the goverment would use KIDS!!! as slave labor, they would basically take them from their families, transport them to the country side, and make them work in a potatofield planting and picking up potatoes from the floor. This was dangerous and economically stupid (kids are not efficient workers, they destroy the fields, they play with the foking potatos, they step on the fockiing potatoes, etc) So it was a foking stupid solution to a problem they created... nobody wanted to work on the fields because it is hard labor and the pay was shit, so they used kids as slave labor. Hurray Cuban "communism" right? Tell me, how is this any better than when Nike uses a guatemalan teenager to make a shoe or apple uses a chinese kid to make an iphone?

I never went for that. I strictly get attracted to countries by their culture.

All countries have culture.

Cuba is rich in culture.

So is Nepal, Japan, Argentia, The US, Mexico, the UK, Ireland, South Africa and Ukraine. All countries have culture.

But the USA was and continues to ba nation of immigrants and of poor people immigrants.

You think thats a bad thing? I think thats a great thing! Granted, some populists assholes in this country have forgotten it, but immigrants have made this country what it is... Founded by british, then Germanic imigration, Italian, Irish, Chinese/Japanese, Hispanic and not to mention the pre-existing native american and the kidnapped African population. The US is a rich, diverse country. Strong culture that have influence from all over the world.

They invaded Cuba, they invaded Puerto Rico, they invaded the Phillipines, they invaded Guam, and the list is very long XogGyux.

That is what countries do and have done since the dawn of time @Tainari88 . That is not new. Even Cuba have invaded other countries :lol: .
The US hardly invaded Cuba. If they wanted to invade Cuba... seriously, you don't think they would have been able to do so? Ofcourse they could.
And I am not an expert on PR, but your people don't even seem to know what they want. One day they want independence, the other day they want statehood, the next just the status quo.
You know... countries invade, they wage war. I wish they wouldn't but they do. They have done so since there is recorded history and they will continue to do so for long after we are both dead. That being said, if we are just going to analyze this from a purely selfish point of view... I rather live on a strong country that nobody will invade than on a weaker one that will be invaded.
This is a silly "good vs evil" analogy that does not really represent geopolitics. Neither Cuba nor the US is the "good guy" or the "bad guy", this is how children see the world.

They cleansed the US states of Indians.

Who is "they"? People from 200 years ago? You know that is history right? There is nothing we can do about that. Statistically speaking, your people also participated in the masacre, and so did mine. I don't know your heritage but I'd guess you have some %% of spaniard on you, just like myself... spain was just as ruthless with their territories as England was, as france was, as portugal was, etc. And before that, the Romans conqured a good part of them as well, so fuck the romans. You see? it is just an endless cycle. And believe me... Cuba is not the angel that is here to purify the world from our sins. Cuba is just as ruthless and bloodthirsty as England was... except cuba does not have any power what so ever so they are irrelevant.

You see a lot of Seminoles, and other ancient Floridian tribes running around? No. Cuba lost many Indian people to European diseases. The European got addicted to tabacco. They got syphillis. Humans circulate among each other. I never believed one of them were better than the other.

I don't know what to say about this...
You think the native tribes in America were some sort of pacifist hippies? I am not justifying their eradication and genocide... but don't be fooled either. They killed each other just like the Europeans did. They waged wars, they raped. That is what humans do. The Europeans had the upper hand with more advanced weapons but also because they got lucky that the diseases they brought were far more deadly to the native population than the diseases they took back home.

Why? Systems. But why the imbalances and the lack of wealth distribution?

That simple. Scarcity + Evolutionary biology.
There are not enough resources in the world to give everyone a "middle income lifestyle". Maybe with technology and education of the population we will get there, but it won't happen during our lifetime, it simply cannot happen with the current production system and our current energy generation makeup. There is a reason why millions of people are descendants of Genghis Khan, ruthless conqueror. And his "success" in "mating" (disclaimer: and I am using it from a biological point of view, not suggesting that rape is a reasonable way to have children) ensured that those genes that made him violent AND greedy have been passed down generations. The same can be said about countless conquerors with far less flashy and extensive curriculum vitae and genealogical trees. The point is, humans are barbaric violent beings, not unlike most other animals. Luckily, we are smart enough to SLOWLY figure it out and fix the issue. It won't happen quickly. It will not happen within our lifetime. And pretending that Cuba, or the Soviet union or NK, or China figured it out is simply lying to yourself.

It is interesting. But the least moral people are always the ones with the most money. Lol. If we go by religious texts? It is all quite corrupt. The ones who own the gold and have the armies and the power....the ruler of those people are said to be the Satan in the desert from the bible. Lol. :D

Well, I don't take my moral teachings from a 2k year old book that is filled with murder and rape. For me, morality is about maximizing human (and as a 2nd objective, animals and other organisms) well being and minimizing harm. Morality does not come from books, or tradition or religion. Morality comes from each and every one of us trying to do the best thing we can to help others and ourselves.

I see value in moderation and in not living over what the world can sustain.

We are but a speck in this word. The word can sustain humanity. And we dont even need this word, there is nothing to stop us from conquering our whole solar system. There is nothing that says we cannot harness 100% of our sun's power and consume every single planet, asteroid in our solar system to make ourselves an unimaginable world.

There has to be a point of satiation for all things of consumption.

No. That is not natural, and if that is what you aspire for... you will not get it ever. The alpha male lion does not stop after the 3rd lioness "because I already inpregnated too many females" it will try to get the 4th and the 5th, etc until he cannot get more because either there are no more females, or because they resist or because he cannot defend more territory from other males, etc. That is not how nature is hardwired. One day, we might be able to put the interests of our fellow humans in front of our own selfish interests, but that day will not arrive for thousands of years. Don't believe me? Who do you rather have die? Your husband or two random kids in africa? Two lives, young lives with many years to live in the future, vs 1 life that you know and is important to you.

That the USA is admired because they got the means and so many other nations don't?

The US is admired for many reasons. For me... it is freedom. Yes, i know it sounds like a cliche, but having grow in a country with very limited freedoms, there is nothing like it.
#15250750
Crapping on the US is low-hanging fruit. Anyone with a brain is aware of its problems. Every other developed nation has universal healthcare and equitable education and does far better than Cuba economically...thanks to capitalism and technology. They also do much better than Cuba in terms of human rights because they aren't slaves to the state and can choose their governments. Marxism-Leninism is slavery wrapped in equality.
#15250782
XogGyux wrote:Precisely my point.


I am not sure if that is true, but how would that even be relevant?


This is not some sort of "moving up the class ladder". In many cases this is literally about survival. @Tainari88 People have gone on makeshift boats made out of cardboard and old tires. They risk their lives, they take their children and jump into a home made device that barely floats and without GPS or any other fancy equipment, they start a 90 miles journey on the caribbean sea to flee their country.


That is not the point. I am not calling mexico a shithole because mexicans make less $$ than the US. There are plenty of countries that make less $$ but at least there is freedom, people can work and work up the ladder and don't have a government that is constantly trying to reinvent the wheel to make people's lives more miserable. Do you know about "becas en el campo" in cuba? I think finally they got phased out with the reforms that came after Fidel died, so this might not be the current issue. But for 4 decades the goverment would use KIDS!!! as slave labor, they would basically take them from their families, transport them to the country side, and make them work in a potatofield planting and picking up potatoes from the floor. This was dangerous and economically stupid (kids are not efficient workers, they destroy the fields, they play with the foking potatos, they step on the fockiing potatoes, etc) So it was a foking stupid solution to a problem they created... nobody wanted to work on the fields because it is hard labor and the pay was shit, so they used kids as slave labor. Hurray Cuban "communism" right? Tell me, how is this any better than when Nike uses a guatemalan teenager to make a shoe or apple uses a chinese kid to make an iphone?


All countries have culture.


So is Nepal, Japan, Argentia, The US, Mexico, the UK, Ireland, South Africa and Ukraine. All countries have culture.


You think thats a bad thing? I think thats a great thing! Granted, some populists assholes in this country have forgotten it, but immigrants have made this country what it is... Founded by british, then Germanic imigration, Italian, Irish, Chinese/Japanese, Hispanic and not to mention the pre-existing native american and the kidnapped African population. The US is a rich, diverse country. Strong culture that have influence from all over the world.


That is what countries do and have done since the dawn of time @Tainari88 . That is not new. Even Cuba have invaded other countries :lol: .
The US hardly invaded Cuba. If they wanted to invade Cuba... seriously, you don't think they would have been able to do so? Ofcourse they could.
And I am not an expert on PR, but your people don't even seem to know what they want. One day they want independence, the other day they want statehood, the next just the status quo.
You know... countries invade, they wage war. I wish they wouldn't but they do. They have done so since there is recorded history and they will continue to do so for long after we are both dead. That being said, if we are just going to analyze this from a purely selfish point of view... I rather live on a strong country that nobody will invade than on a weaker one that will be invaded.
This is a silly "good vs evil" analogy that does not really represent geopolitics. Neither Cuba nor the US is the "good guy" or the "bad guy", this is how children see the world.


Who is "they"? People from 200 years ago? You know that is history right? There is nothing we can do about that. Statistically speaking, your people also participated in the masacre, and so did mine. I don't know your heritage but I'd guess you have some %% of spaniard on you, just like myself... spain was just as ruthless with their territories as England was, as france was, as portugal was, etc. And before that, the Romans conqured a good part of them as well, so fuck the romans. You see? it is just an endless cycle. And believe me... Cuba is not the angel that is here to purify the world from our sins. Cuba is just as ruthless and bloodthirsty as England was... except cuba does not have any power what so ever so they are irrelevant.


I don't know what to say about this...
You think the native tribes in America were some sort of pacifist hippies? I am not justifying their eradication and genocide... but don't be fooled either. They killed each other just like the Europeans did. They waged wars, they raped. That is what humans do. The Europeans had the upper hand with more advanced weapons but also because they got lucky that the diseases they brought were far more deadly to the native population than the diseases they took back home.


That simple. Scarcity + Evolutionary biology.
There are not enough resources in the world to give everyone a "middle income lifestyle". Maybe with technology and education of the population we will get there, but it won't happen during our lifetime, it simply cannot happen with the current production system and our current energy generation makeup. There is a reason why millions of people are descendants of Genghis Khan, ruthless conqueror. And his "success" in "mating" (disclaimer: and I am using it from a biological point of view, not suggesting that rape is a reasonable way to have children) ensured that those genes that made him violent AND greedy have been passed down generations. The same can be said about countless conquerors with far less flashy and extensive curriculum vitae and genealogical trees. The point is, humans are barbaric violent beings, not unlike most other animals. Luckily, we are smart enough to SLOWLY figure it out and fix the issue. It won't happen quickly. It will not happen within our lifetime. And pretending that Cuba, or the Soviet union or NK, or China figured it out is simply lying to yourself.


Well, I don't take my moral teachings from a 2k year old book that is filled with murder and rape. For me, morality is about maximizing human (and as a 2nd objective, animals and other organisms) well being and minimizing harm. Morality does not come from books, or tradition or religion. Morality comes from each and every one of us trying to do the best thing we can to help others and ourselves.


We are but a speck in this word. The word can sustain humanity. And we dont even need this word, there is nothing to stop us from conquering our whole solar system. There is nothing that says we cannot harness 100% of our sun's power and consume every single planet, asteroid in our solar system to make ourselves an unimaginable world.


No. That is not natural, and if that is what you aspire for... you will not get it ever. The alpha male lion does not stop after the 3rd lioness "because I already inpregnated too many females" it will try to get the 4th and the 5th, etc until he cannot get more because either there are no more females, or because they resist or because he cannot defend more territory from other males, etc. That is not how nature is hardwired. One day, we might be able to put the interests of our fellow humans in front of our own selfish interests, but that day will not arrive for thousands of years. Don't believe me? Who do you rather have die? Your husband or two random kids in africa? Two lives, young lives with many years to live in the future, vs 1 life that you know and is important to you.


The US is admired for many reasons. For me... it is freedom. Yes, i know it sounds like a cliche, but having grow in a country with very limited freedoms, there is nothing like it.


First off, I want to say I always enjoy talking with you. I like you a lot. And I find your accomplishments remarkable. I also think you are a liberal in thinking. Thus your issues with the conservative element in PoFo.

Poverty (to address your last sentence about the USA) is NOT FREEDOM. For anyone. A very poor person or working class person with limited funds has little freedom. The USA has limited free speech. Since the Patriot Act was passed with the Bush administration citizens can be categorized as national security risks and whisked off to some unknown jail and held there. You should read that XogGyux and it can happen to anyone. If you do not go against the government or challenge the US government in a real way? You are left unmolested. But if you take up arms, organize and confront the government of the USA and try to damage its image or its propaganda messaging in the world? They will come down on you like a ton of bricks. The extreme Right demonstrated the government did not approve of their behavior and for example WACO, Texas and David Koresh? They came down on. Polygamous sects and sects that want religious freedoms free of some government interferences also suffer the same fate XogGyux. The far Left also gets brutally repressed in the USA. Just see the COINTELPRO papers and the Black Panther party, the Communist Party in the Great Depression and after WWII and the McCarthy hearings in the 1950s and every Hollywood writer, star or worker was questioned if they even had a hint of Communist sympathies. Lucille Ball had a voter registration card that checked off Communist as her political affiliation and they almost destroyed her show and her career over her political beliefs? Is that freedom of political speech and thought Xog? No, it is not. But the myth is that there is free speech in human governments that are liberal democracies. People understand that in totalitarian governments like the PRC or North Korea or Nazi Germany that would have been very dangerous. Also the Right wing dictatorships in the past like Chile and Pinochet there was an intolerance for the Left in general as well. That is reality. I have many more arguments to contradict your last sentence Xog.

But I understand your point. You are free to study, write on the internet a liberal point of view and against the Cuban government. An enemy government of the USA. Try being really active for Puerto Rican independence and being a democratic socialist and confront the USA? They will come down on you like a ton of bricks XogGyux. Guaranteed. Because that is my experience and not yours. I am not a liberal democrat and I am not a Cuban exile either. But a supposedly friendly territory of the USA. Shut up, be grateful. For what Xog? Not having the ability to vote, or congresspeople who can vote or senators, and never having the ability now to even have local representation. We are run by an unelected bank panel appointed by the USA congress and government and the local Puerto Ricans are not allowed to change that system. Run by a bank cartel that refuses to forgive the debt that was piled up through some hedge fund managers in Wall Street. .

THe local pro Statehood party the PNP and their crony asskissers of the USA govt was so corrupt that they were caught stealing funds or sitting on funds for Hurricane Maria victims. The governor a right conservative that is a corrupt fool was kicked out due to one million Ricans hitting the street and forcing him out. Most of our people do not believe in the system as is. It does not work for us at all. The Colonialism is from an obsolete time. And the USA government is the one doing the damage. That is a FACT. Not made up and whining. A fact.

Cuba doesn't trust the USA at all. They think? If we loosen the political system? The Yanks will come in and destroy our control. They will take over. And it will be square one again. Trying to get rid of an Empire wanting to control Cuban politics and life so they can control our resources and do military bases on our land again and we lose independence, and sovereignty and wealth. Never loosen the control. EVER. The Cubans are chomping at the bit. Let us have freedom to talk and speech (and Cubans love to talk and to discuss and are fine debaters too), let us have choices and not the same ole party with the same old people. Let us try different systems. Let us get to buy nice items like they have in Mexico (Mexico is the nation with the most trade agreements and contracts on planet Earth. Mexico trades with everyone and every kind of government). So? Could you blame them? I don't. Look, at what the USA has done with Puerto Rico. The economy is in shambles. Blackouts per every tropical storm that comes through. Drinking water shut off. High unemployment. All the adults who can work cannot stay in Puerto Rico. Most have to leave. Including our doctors. For me losing your native population by double digits is not SUSTAINABLE. It is not an answer.

The island is getting tax dodging crypto currency people who do not give a shit about speaking Spanish or learning about us. They only want to live well and do not care about anything else. That can be our future. Everyone leaving who is Puerto Rican due to a lack of opportunities and the remaining people are the cooks, janitors and gardeners, and such, and the people in charge are Anglos with money. What a SUCCESS STORY!

But there is freedom according to you for your particular circumstances in life. By spouting pro-USA government-approved perspectives XogGyux.

I do not agree. But in the final analysis, I am glad you are in the USA. And I am glad you got your dream and are an intelligent young man, doing what you like. More freedom for all of us in this world? The better it is for all. Just don't forget the ones who are left behind. And the ones who fought hard for the labor conditions of all, and the wages and the negotiations for many who are not rich and famous. They are almost all from my column. My political column. Never from the conservatives. Remember that XogGyux. ;)

P.D. If I missed some points I will address them a bit later. I am busy and got to get to work over here. Please forgive me young man for the delay eh?
#15250815
Pants-of-dog wrote:If this is as bad as the far left gets, then this is nothing compared to the right wing dictatorships that have beem the norm for most of Latin American history.

Yes, but far-right dictatorships are able to give 1% of their population the right to fly private jets to Miami.

According to XogGyux and wat0n, this is the only freedom that really matters.

If Cubans enjoy freedom FROM things (freedom from starvation, freedom from illness, freedom from homelessness, freedom from illiteracy) it's because they overthrew their private-plane owning elites.

Posters above continue to compare Cuba to the USA, rather than comparing it to Honduras, Jamaica or Quintan Roo. This way, they think they can make Cuba's system look worse than the colonialist bank-robbing USA.

"Look, Sister Madeleine the care-giver of all the world's children... is poor, while Jack the Ripper is rich. Obviously, cutting people's throats is much wiser than helping children." - This is the moral sewer where XogGyux and wat0n's opinions swim.

Cuba has a lot of doctors, while the USA has a lot of Wendys franchises. And we're all getting older, so those doctors are worth a lot more REAL MONEY than all those machine-made hamburgers.

XogGyux  wrote:There is a reason why millions of people are descendants of Genghis Khan, ruthless conqueror. And his "success" in "mating" (disclaimer: and I am using it from a biological point of view, not suggesting that rape is a reasonable way to have children) ensured that those genes that made him violent AND greedy have been passed down generations.

Actually, most people are decendant from slaves and indentured servants. Domesticated animals now dominate the planet, and that includes domesticated humans. This is the trait that most often gets "passed on." Just look at the type of people who have lots of children. Most of them are submissive, an they raise their children to be other people's dogs.
Last edited by QatzelOk on 13 Oct 2022 19:51, edited 3 times in total.
#15250816
wat0n wrote:Just like in Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela, the far-left (the center-left is fine) is responsible for all the most disastrous and criminal regimes in Latin America today - with no exceptions, regardless of what their apologists may try to argue.


No, you are not @XogGyux you don't believe in much except your own personal gain. Un vendido.

You think the USA has a right to intervene and put pressure on societies going through turmoil due to poverty, and struggle. They don't have a right to intervene and extract. At all. No right. Do you hear that you vendido? They have no right to intervene in Cuba,or Venezuela or Puerto Rico, or Nicaragua, or anywhere. Because they disaagree politically with the people's choices for leadership. They are not GOD. They are not the world COPS.

The USA and Putin think they got the right to intervene and force their will on other lands. They don't. And vendidos are always there cheering them on.

All the societies have a right to work out their differences. The American USA government doesn't like the idea of Russian intervention in their elections. They don't like it. But they engage in it in the New World. Monroe doctrine and so on. Why? Control of money and resources. And the only people they back with guns, money, and lying propaganda campaigns is the RIGHT in Latin America. Why? because the Left deals with POVERTY and with lack of equality in the world of Right Wing Conservative fascists that dedicate themselves to selling out their nation for some Yankee dollars and intervention. They are the true unpatriotic pieces of shit in Latin America.

And Wat0n go back to agreeing with racists. That is your bag. Lol. I have no respect for vendidos. XogGyux wants to lift the embargo and unite families. He is logical in that for sure. You? No. You just want to eliminate anything at all that goes against some stupid Yankee Imperialistic shitty policy.

I have no respect for that. Never in a million years. :roll:
#15250823
Pants-of-dog wrote:If this is as bad as the far left gets, then this is nothing compared to the right wing dictatorships that have beem the norm for most of Latin American history.


Pathetic attempt at whatsaboutism, even more so since there are no right-wing dictatorships in Latin America today. This could make sense if there were, but there are not.

Tainari88 wrote:No, you are not @XogGyux you don't believe in much except your own personal gain. Un vendido.


Said by someone who moved to Mexico because it's cheap to do so after having saved in US Dollars :lol:

Tainari88 wrote:You think the USA has a right to intervene and put pressure on societies going through turmoil due to poverty, and struggle. They don't have a right to intervene and extract. At all. No right. Do you hear that you vendido? They have no right to intervene in Cuba,or Venezuela or Puerto Rico, or Nicaragua, or anywhere. Because they disaagree politically with the people's choices for leadership. They are not GOD. They are not the world COPS.


But Cuba does have a right to intervene in countries like Angola (1975), Nicaragua has a right to invade Costa Rican territorial waters and Venezuela has a right to stop oil exploration in Guyana, right?

Stop this fake outrage for once.

Tainari88 wrote:The USA and Putin think they got the right to intervene and force their will on other lands. They don't. And vendidos are always there cheering them on.

All the societies have a right to work out their differences. The American USA government doesn't like the idea of Russian intervention in their elections. They don't like it. But they engage in it in the New World. Monroe doctrine and so on. Why? Control of money and resources. And the only people they back with guns, money, and lying propaganda campaigns is the RIGHT in Latin America. Why? because the Left deals with POVERTY and with lack of equality in the world of Right Wing Conservative fascists that dedicate themselves to selling out their nation for some Yankee dollars and intervention. They are the true unpatriotic pieces of shit in Latin America.


The USA has largely been indifferent to Latin American affairs ever since the Cold War ended. No more threats to US national security = No more interest in the region.

Tainari88 wrote:And Wat0n go back to agreeing with racists. That is your bag. Lol.


Yet here you are agreeing with @QatzelOk who's well known for his antisemitism here. Guilt by association won't work here.

Tainari88 wrote:I have no respect for vendidos. XogGyux wants to lift the embargo and unite families. He is logical in that for sure. You? No. You just want to eliminate anything at all that goes against some stupid Yankee Imperialistic shitty policy.

I have no respect for that. Never in a million years. :roll:


I have no respect for those who claim to be democrats and support denying democracy to the Cuban people.

Remember, your own words:

Tainari88 wrote:Cuba doesn't trust the USA at all. They think? If we loosen the political system? The Yanks will come in and destroy our control. They will take over. And it will be square one again. Trying to get rid of an Empire wanting to control Cuban politics and life so they can control our resources and do military bases on our land again and we lose independence, and sovereignty and wealth. Never loosen the control. EVER. The Cubans are chomping at the bit. Let us have freedom to talk and speech (and Cubans love to talk and to discuss and are fine debaters too), let us have choices and not the same ole party with the same old people. Let us try different systems. Let us get to buy nice items like they have in Mexico (Mexico is the nation with the most trade agreements and contracts on planet Earth. Mexico trades with everyone and every kind of government). So? Could you blame them? I don't. Look, at what the USA has done with Puerto Rico. The economy is in shambles. Blackouts per every tropical storm that comes through. Drinking water shut off. High unemployment. All the adults who can work cannot stay in Puerto Rico. Most have to leave. Including our doctors. For me losing your native population by double digits is not SUSTAINABLE. It is not an answer.


If the Cuban people want to align themselves with the USA, why would it be wrong?

Why would it be wrong for Puerto Ricans to vote to became a state or keep the status quo? Allow me to remind you, Boricuas have never voted to become an independent state:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Puer ... referendum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Puer ... referendum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Puer ... referendum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Puer ... referendum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Puer ... referendum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Puer ... referendum

And lately, since 2012 onwards, they've wanted to become an US state, last reaffirmed 2 years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Puer ... referendum

Maybe you could accept the consistent votes against independence and move on. But it's obvious you won't, you'd rather have a socialist dictator who would do as you wish (hence the support for the Cuban dictatorship).

You sound a lot like @Pants-of-dog here:

Pants-of-dog wrote:And how should Cuba do that, in terms of dealing with the fact that a free press and a multiparty system will be used by the CIA to destroy Cuban sovereignty?


If you were a Chilean, you'd be like those who voted for the new far-left Constitution (like @Pants-of-dog should have, assuming he moved his ass to do so) and are still imploding over a month after we rejected it 62%-38%, with 85% participation. I wonder if they'll ignore the will of the Chilean majority to reject far-left ideology like you do when it comes to Cubans.
#15250824
Tainari88 wrote:Poverty (to address your last sentence about the USA) is NOT FREEDOM. For anyone. A very poor person or working class person with limited funds has little freedom. The USA has limited free speech. Since the Patriot Act was passed with the Bush administration citizens can be categorized as national security risks and whisked off to some unknown jail and held there. You should read that XogGyux and it can happen to anyone. If you do not go against the government or challenge the US government in a real way? You are left unmolested. But if you take up arms, organize and confront the government of the USA and try to damage its image or its propaganda messaging in the world? They will come down on you like a ton of bricks. The extreme Right demonstrated the government did not approve of their behavior and for example WACO, Texas and David Koresh? They came down on. Polygamous sects and sects that want religious freedoms free of some government interferences also suffer the same fate XogGyux. The far Left also gets brutally repressed in the USA. Just see the COINTELPRO papers and the Black Panther party, the Communist Party in the Great Depression and after WWII and the McCarthy hearings in the 1950s and every Hollywood writer, star or worker was questioned if they even had a hint of Communist sympathies. Lucille Ball had a voter registration card that checked off Communist as her political affiliation and they almost destroyed her show and her career over her political beliefs? Is that freedom of political speech and thought Xog? No, it is not. But the myth is that there is free speech in human governments that are liberal democracies. People understand that in totalitarian governments like the PRC or North Korea or Nazi Germany that would have been very dangerous. Also the Right wing dictatorships in the past like Chile and Pinochet there was an intolerance for the Left in general as well. That is reality. I have many more arguments to contradict your last sentence Xog.

I have to disagree with you here @Tainari88 . When it comes to speech, there is certainly not many places in the word with more freedoms than the US, and I am happy to debate that point. The ones that might compete, are also nations imbued with the western tradition and not failed quasi-communist dictatorships like cuba.
Freedom is a more nebulous term because rules/regulations are in essense a curtailment of freedoms. A ban on IV fentanyl use for recreational use is in essense a limitation of freedom. The goverment is interfering in your "freedom to be a junkie". Even so, this country also has a leg up Cuba when it comes to the general freedoms of its population.

But I understand your point. You are free to study, write on the internet a liberal point of view and against the Cuban government. An enemy government of the USA. Try being really active for Puerto Rican independence and being a democratic socialist and confront the USA? They will come down on you like a ton of bricks XogGyux. Guaranteed. Because that is my experience and not yours. I am not a liberal democrat and I am not a Cuban exile either. But a supposedly friendly territory of the USA. Shut up, be grateful. For what Xog? Not having the ability to vote, or congresspeople who can vote or senators, and never having the ability now to even have local representation. We are run by an unelected bank panel appointed by the USA congress and government and the local Puerto Ricans are not allowed to change that system. Run by a bank cartel that refuses to forgive the debt that was piled up through some hedge fund managers in Wall Street. .

I'd be very skeptic if your claim is that you cannot post on the internet in the US regarding puerto rican political future. After all... this is what I am doing right now. I don't know the situation in PR, I don't know a lot of representative puerto ricans to have any insight on the situation. I think their current situation is objectively unfair, I think either independence or statehood should address the issues with representation that you have and I honestly am ambibalent about the whole situation, I don't care much either way and I think it should be up to the PRns people to decide.
I have to say, a real move towards independence seems very unlikely to end with a good outcome for its people. You could sever the ties with the US goverment but the corporations will not play nice with a newly formed, possibly highly corrupt, goverment. The clasic goverment vs corporation battle will ensue and we would likely end up with nationalization of industries and an endless tic for tac and Puerto Rico is a small country, it will lose no doubt about it. Probably you won't like this, but I think the best for your people would be statehood.

Cuba doesn't trust the USA at all.

The Cuban goverment is a paranioc clusterfuck. Have you seen the movies where the aliens invade earth? Do you realize how stupid it would be to spend the enourmous amount of energy that it would take to travel from another star towards our planet... and for what? What is it so special that you think aliens would come steal from us? Oil? Water? it is ridiculous. The amount of energy that it takes to travel between solar system at reasonable speeds dwarfs anything that we could potentially have worth stealing. Certainly we are worthless as slaves, you can make an army of highly obedient robots that would work on a far broader spectrum of posibilities than the human race for far less than it would take to enslave the human race. If aliens ever destroy us, they can do it from their home word with a powerful energy beam if they are scared we could develop into a threat, or they might destroy us by accident by not knowing we even exist in the same way we might inadvertendly destroy an insect when we walk over the grass. But it is illogical to believe they are out there plotting an invasion on earth.
Why do I say this? Because this is the idiocy of the cuban goverment. They think the US is out to get them and honestly the US is too foking distracted with the lastest kardashian scandal to give a fuck about what happens in cuba. Some americans cannot even put Cuba on a map.

Trying to get rid of an Empire wanting to control Cuban politics and life so they can control our resources and do military bases on our land again and we lose independence, and sovereignty and wealth.

What resources? What resources does Cuba have that you think the US would exploit?
Do you think military bases in cuba would be bad for cuba? It would be great for the cuban economy. Great paying jobs to maintain and service an armada and $$ for services to the military personnel in the base. Again, cuba is but a bug that the US can squash on a moment's notice. Cuba is not measurably less secured against the US if a frigate is station inside Havana bay.
In my opinion, the Hawaii treatment applied to Cuba (or even PR) is the best case scenario for its people. In a hypothetical case scenario, in which Cuba became a US state, I see its people enjoying at least a 10fold increase in quality of life and standard of living. I even dare to say more than that, I am being conservative here. Cuba leverages is historic colonial past as a touristic attraction, the problem is... it is hard to be a tourist powerhouse and a secluded hermit regime. Don't believe me? Ask Otto Warmbier. Now... I am not saying Cuba is ANYWHERE close to what NK does... but lets just say their music rhymes.

I do not agree. But in the final analysis, I am glad you are in the USA. And I am glad you got your dream and are an intelligent young man, doing what you like. More freedom for all of us in this world? The better it is for all. Just don't forget the ones who are left behind. And the ones who fought hard for the labor conditions of all, and the wages and the negotiations for many who are not rich and famous. They are almost all from my column. My political column. Never from the conservatives. Remember that XogGyux. ;)

I don't forget, and that is why I post in this places about this issue. It would be reckless to allow @QatzelOk 's propaganda go unchallanged. I am all for normalizing the situation with cuba, for droping the stupid embargo and for opening the floodgates american business into cuba. I don't think the Cuban goverment would survive in its current form. I think it would have to dramatically soften and reform, or it will collaps.

Pants-of-dog wrote:If this is as bad as the far left gets, then this is nothing compared to the right wing dictatorships that have beem the norm for most of Latin American history.

Well, the answer is never far left nor far right :lol: . The perfect water temperature to have a bath might be around 40C, neither boiling water nor icecubes is adequate or safe :lol:
#15250825
Our "democratic" socialists seem to unironically believe that the fact that there were several US-backed right-wing dictatorships in Latin America until 2000 means there should be left-wing dictatorships in Latin America forever, and as many as possible for that matter (lest the CIA use the ploy of multiparty democracy for its own ends).
#15250846
wat0n wrote:Pathetic attempt at whatsaboutism, even more so since there are no right-wing dictatorships in Latin America today. This could make sense if there were, but there are not.


Please prove that Cuba is a dictatorship.

————-

@XogGyux

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation
  • 1
  • 112
  • 113
  • 114
  • 115
  • 116
  • 119
Russia-Ukraine War 2022

Was there a price cap prior? Maybe I wasn’t payin[…]

I can’t really think of an instance where I’d punc[…]

Lets talk real Anarchy

If there's no state then multiple large & p[…]

I'll try (as I'm fighting off an infection) to re[…]