Another leftist working to "burn down the system" - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15249998
Unthinking Majority wrote:Teachers should be teaching. They should not be involved in political activism, they should be apolitical. Especially public school teachers. So yes they should do what the government tells them. I assume you wouldn't want public teachers telling kids how great Trump is and how bad the Democrats were, or how bad abortion is? These teachers are definitely in the wrong.


Like I just said, doing exactly what the government tells you is political activism in that it provides tacit or open support for the status quo. It is basically conservative activism posing as “doing nothing”.

So what you guys are arguing isn5at teachers should use their position to promote conservative political activism.

If the current teaching is that abortion is bad and teachers never say anything against that, the students will assume that the teaching that abortion is bad is the one the school supports.

Nor do you nor @BlutoSays ever seem to get upset when the government does tell them to promote politics in the classroom.
#15250003
late wrote:
You guys have never spent 5 minutes in a teacher break room.

You also haven't been paying attention to the news...



My mother was a Jr High math teacher. After I got out of college, the Maine economy was a disaster, and I did some sub teaching.

Spending time as an adult in schools convinced me I didn't want to teach, and that was in the 70s. Even if you doubled the pay, thats a lot of hours and a lot of assholes. It's worse now.

Public education has always been political. Shouldn't be, but that's the reality, and it's usually been the Right throwing monkey wrenches into the works.

But, like I said, most teachers are up to their necks in issues, politics and assholes. They want to educate kids, and frankly, the Right has never been all that interested.. and that's when they aren't actively screwing the pooch.

Zeihan has a great line, we have never been competent because we never needed to be competent. There are exceptions, like FDR, but we had an enormous lead in education, and we pissed it away.

Someone always whines about money. There is enough money, but we spend an insane amount on things that do not educate. That needs to stop, and yeah, I am gunning for competitive sports. Europe is soccer mad, but schools don't pay for it.

A reminder, that won't happen.

There are 2 ways to improve education, national standards or national schools. We have tried standards, they will never work here.

That leaves national schools, which will also not happen.

This thread started with a video by O'Keefe, he's batshit crazy.
#15250008
Unthinking Majority wrote:Teachers should be teaching. They should not be involved in political activism, they should be apolitical. Especially public school teachers. So yes they should do what the government tells them. I assume you wouldn't want public teachers telling kids how great Trump is and how bad the Democrats were, or how bad abortion is? These teachers are definitely in the wrong.


I happen to think that if a parent is a religious and right wing fanatic they should go and either do homeschooling themselves or pay tuition at the many Christian private schools that exist in their states.

As for public school kids' educations? They need to avoid racist or biased literature or histories and be objective teachers in their subject matter. Present a vast and diverse point of view in history and social science.

Unfortunately in the past the schools often reflect the communities that are the most segregated. People wrongly assume that back in Little Rock High School in the fifties that forced integration that somehow most school districts are a good and balanced mix of children from all religions, races, classes and backgrounds. That is not true. To this day the US school system that is public reflects the tax bracket the local neighborhood is in. And it means? Wealthy school districts tend to be almost all white and low income districts tend to be all Latino or all Black. The diversity stuff is fiction.

if you want your kid to have progressive views? Discuss politics with them at home at the kitchen table.

I like the content of my kid's school. it is a private school that i pay for that is bilingual in English and Spanish. They teach him geography, art, science, math and reading in Spanish and reading in English too. They do computer and technology once a week. They have an exchange program once a week with a school in rural Japan and the Japanese kids are curious about how the Mexican kids schools teach their curriculum.

The parents are mostly well educated Mexican parents with a humble attitude and helpful to each other.

They have basketball, theater, dance, chess, and music lessons after regular school hours. The kids wear uniforms and they often teach them about Mayan culture and history and language.

I like that school. I picked it out for my son. Be in charge of your child's education folks. Don't think about throwing your kid in with the local public school without knowing what kind of education your kid is going to get there. Being uninvolved and not putting thought and energy behind how you are going to raise your children is irresponsible in the extreme.

In the USA my child's school was a public school. I also picked a dual immersion International Baccalaureate program school. Why? I really really believe in bilingual education and a strong art and science background for children. I will never tolerate a child of mine speaking, reading, and writing English only. Never and no way.

So? You are in charge of your child's education people. It is up to you. If you want your kid to be a racist idiotic bigoted redneck? You most probably will get that for them. If you want your kids to be conservative Christians who never opened a science book in their lifetimes? That is what you get. In the end? We got to share land, space, jobs, and public spaces in this world. And if all we know is an echo chamber? The problems we have with differences will be unresolved.

I believe in tons of foreign languages, reading religious texts of all major religions, reading science in massive amounts, dominating mathematics to calculus level for all or above, and learning geography, political science, history, government, and so on, including world history. A really top-notch education. FOR EVERYONE. Not just the ones who can afford to pay.

AFAIK a lot of parents in the USA are not really educated themselves. Even the liberals rarely speak foreign languages fluently and or are literate in science with any real discipline. Many that are religious never study other religions besides the one they grew up with. So as far as I know? Calling those people educated? Is a stretch.
#15250017
Pants-of-dog wrote:Like I just said, doing exactly what the government tells you is political activism in that it provides tacit or open support for the status quo. It is basically conservative activism posing as “doing nothing”.

So what you guys are arguing isn5at teachers should use their position to promote conservative political activism.

If the current teaching is that abortion is bad and teachers never say anything against that, the students will assume that the teaching that abortion is bad is the one the school supports.

Nor do you nor @BlutoSays ever seem to get upset when the government does tell them to promote politics in the classroom.


You can teach kids about abortion because abortion is a fact that occurs in our world, you don't teach them whether abortion is moral or immoral or bad or good, they can figure that out on their own.

Who is going to decide a school's take on abortion? The government? Elected board trustees? Individual teachers? And what if they decide to teach that abortion is bad and immoral and your child comes home with homework teaching that, and an assignment about how great Trump is?

Being apolitical is now being "conservative", that's a new one. A great excuse to politicize everything. How about instead of politically brainwashing our kids we give them the knowledge and critical thinking skills to figure it out on their own? Doing worry, most will graduate high school left leaning anyways.
#15250019
ckaihatsu wrote:
Teachers will have to be able to repel *coup attempts* on their *schools* now, the way things are going....


= /



Unthinking Majority wrote:
@ckaihatsu is slightly triggered. Is also another leftist working to burn down the system.



I could have *told* you that I'm anti-fascist, and that the system is enabling energy *profiteering*, and warfare, in Europe.

'Burn it down' is something of a *stereotype*, of course, because it's not about *destruction*, but rather a revolution in social relations so that *balance sheets* aren't controlling everyone's lives, and the real economy.
#15250022
Pants-of-dog wrote:
status quo


Pants-of-dog wrote:
conservative



I'm realizing that there's nothing in the political culture that's a derogatory *shorthand* for 'conservative' -- the term even sounds *good*, like 'conservationism' (of nature).

There needs to be a pejorative term for the status-quo types, like 'cracker' for whites.
#15250026
Unthinking Majority wrote:You can teach kids about abortion because abortion is a fact that occurs in our world, you don't teach them whether abortion is moral or immoral or bad or good, they can figure that out on their own.


And yet many teachers in the USA are prohibited from making factual assertions such as "gay people also make good parents" and " systemic racism exists".

Yet you and @BlutoSays advocate censorship for teachers since statements like these are considered political.

Explain how refusing to teach these facts is not political.

Who is going to decide a school's take on abortion? The government? Elected board trustees? Individual teachers? And what if they decide to teach that abortion is bad and immoral and your child comes home with homework teaching that, and an assignment about how great Trump is?


I assume that you and @BlutoSays would be fine with that as you also support other conservative measures to politicize education.

Being apolitical is now being "conservative", that's a new one. A great excuse to politicize everything. How about instead of politically brainwashing our kids we give them the knowledge and critical thinking skills to figure it out on their own? Doing worry, most will graduate high school left leaning anyways.


Again, you are incorrectly assuming that silent tacit support for the status quo is not political.

Please explain why you assume this.
#15250031
Pants-of-dog wrote:And yet many teachers in the USA are prohibited from making factual assertions such as "gay people also make good parents" and " systemic racism exists".

Yet you and @BlutoSays advocate censorship for teachers since statements like these are considered political.

Explain how refusing to teach these facts is not political.

It may indeed be political. If these are facts and part of the curriculum that's fine.

I assume that you and @BlutoSays would be fine with that as you also support other conservative measures to politicize education.

Like what?

Again, you are incorrectly assuming that silent tacit support for the status quo is not political.

Not saying anything is not support. I'll have to assume that since I've never seen you say anything on these forums against child rape that you support child rape. Why have you been silent and why do you support child rape?
#15250033
Unthinking Majority wrote:It may indeed be political. If these are facts and part of the curriculum that's fine.


So you agree that not allowing teachers to make political comments is also a form of politicizing education.

Like what?

Not saying anything is not support. I'll have to assume that since I've never seen you say anything on these forums against child rape that you support child rape. Why have you been silent and why do you support child rape?


Child rape is a good example of how prohibiting discussion can be seen as abetting the crime, such as we see in the Catholic Church, Hockey Canada, and some other organizations. The lack of discussion is what allowed these crimes to continue.
#15250076
Pants-of-dog wrote:So you agree that not allowing teachers to make political comments is also a form of politicizing education.



Child rape is a good example of how prohibiting discussion can be seen as abetting the crime, such as we see in the Catholic Church, Hockey Canada, and some other organizations. The lack of discussion is what allowed these crimes to continue.


So if you're ok with teachers being political in the classroom how should it work? A free for all of free speech for teachers? Or school boards decide for they should politicize? Or the state government? Remember that both liberal and conservative areas and teachers will be able to push their politics on teachers.
#15250077
POD! Look. out. for. the. quicksand! POD!


---


Unthinking Majority wrote:
So if you're ok with teachers being political in the classroom how should it work? A free for all of free speech for teachers? Or school boards decide for they should politicize? Or the state government? Remember that both liberal and conservative areas and teachers will be able to push their politics on teachers.



Okay, but as soon as *anyone* even hears the word 'woke' in a hallway, *it's off*.


= D
#15250224
Unthinking Majority wrote:So if you're ok with teachers being political in the classroom how should it work? A free for all of free speech for teachers? Or school boards decide for they should politicize? Or the state government? Remember that both liberal and conservative areas and teachers will be able to push their politics on teachers.


There are many examples of local governments imposing speech bans on teachers. All by conservatives, as far as I can tell.

Can you think of any progressives doing any such things?
#15250228
Pants-of-dog wrote:There are many examples of local governments imposing speech bans on teachers. All by conservatives, as far as I can tell.

Can you think of any progressives doing any such things?

Well this doesn't answer my questions. Can you answer my questions?

As for above, not off the top of my head. However, if pro-Trump teachers teaching pro-Trump or anti-abortion views in the classroom occurred in areas that leaned Democrat i'm sure they would complain to stop this. I sure would. Would you?
#15250243
Unthinking Majority wrote:….not off the top of my head. …


So when we look at the facts as they present themselves, we see that it is conservatives who wish to impose a political agenda on education, while progressives are, at most, espousing their views on an individual level as many other conservative teachers do.

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