Iran To EXECUTE 15,000 Protestors - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15256142
Sandzak wrote:The regime has just 2 choices, either free and fair elections or facing a civil war.

Do they? I'm struggling to think of a single civil war where people fought for secularism. Even in Britain where Muslims are still a relatively small minority albeit growing at an exponential rate its only the Hindus and the Sikhs that are willing to fight against Islamification.
#15256148
Rich wrote:Even in Britain where Muslims are still a relatively small minority albeit growing at an exponential rate its only the Hindus and the Sikhs that are willing to fight against Islamification.


It should not be forgotten that the British culture is far superior to any other (non-European) culture that, any reasonable minded British would not actually believe their country would fall into Islamification.

And don't forget a considerable portion of people immigrating to Great Britain recently are from non-Islamic places, for example Hong Kong.

As much as I respect you as a morally upright person, I strongly believe a considerable number of your worries are out of delusion.
#15256202
@Rich In Iran Transgenders are considered women, and their priests can marry you for one night if you pay them, but the workers can not drink beer.

I follow the Ottoman Islam which is also influenced by secularism of Atatürk. I hope Iran will get a secular muslim ruler like the Shia Azerbaijan.
#15256210
While the claim is not accurate, major public figures including Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, as well as actors Viola Davis and Sophie Turner, shared the post on their social media.

The problem is that, while Iran’s parliament, or majlis, voted to urge the death penalty for protesters, it’s not up to them. Iran’s Judiciary metes out punishment, and answers not to the parliament but to Iran’s unelected Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Here is what the parliament actually voted on; the latest numbers on imprisonment and death; and how the world is responding. How many protesters have been arrested so far?
While numbers are difficult to verify due to the lack of independent reporting in Iran, 15,915 protesters have been detained and 351 have been killed since the protests began, according to the latest figures by the Human Rights Activists News Agency, or HRANA. On Nov. 3, Javaid Rehman, the special Iran human rights rapporteur to the United Nations, also told the U.N. Security Council that some estimates of detained protesters were as high as 14,000 people, as reported by CNN.

Who are some of the notable arrests?
The arrested protesters include Toomaj Salehi, a rapper whose music urged rebellion; Iranian journalists Niloofar Hamedi and Elahe Mohammadi, who helped break the story of Amini; and Hossein Ronaghi, a prominent blogger and activist who went on a hunger strike to protest his arrest.

Hamedi and Mohammadi have been held in Tehran’s Evin prison complex since late September, while Ronaghi’s family say they have lost contact with him since he was transferred to a hospital, alleging that both his legs were broken while in jail.

In September, a 22-year-old woman named Mahsa Amini died three days after being taken into custody by Iran’s morality police. Since Amini’s death, protesters have taken to the streets to demand a change in Iran’s leadership and an end to gender discrimination and state impunity for weeks. Now, Iranian authorities are cracking down on those taking part in the protests, leading to violence and the deaths of protesters.

But a false claim that Iran plans to execute 15,000 protesters went viral on social media this week. The message took hold when various tweets and infographics began circulating, including one image which read, “Iran sentences 15,000 protestors to death as a ‘hard lesson’ for all rebels.”

While the claim is not accurate, major public figures including Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, as well as actors Viola Davis and Sophie Turner, shared the post on their social media.

The problem is that, while Iran’s parliament, or majlis, voted to urge the death penalty for protesters, it’s not up to them. Iran’s Judiciary metes out punishment, and answers not to the parliament but to Iran’s unelected Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Here is what the parliament actually voted on; the latest numbers on imprisonment and death; and how the world is responding.

How many protesters have been arrested so far?
While numbers are difficult to verify due to the lack of independent reporting in Iran, 15,915 protesters have been detained and 351 have been killed since the protests began, according to the latest figures by the Human Rights Activists News Agency, or HRANA. On Nov. 3, Javaid Rehman, the special Iran human rights rapporteur to the United Nations, also told the U.N. Security Council that some estimates of detained protesters were as high as 14,000 people, as reported by CNN.

Who are some of the notable arrests?
The arrested protesters include Toomaj Salehi, a rapper whose music urged rebellion; Iranian journalists Niloofar Hamedi and Elahe Mohammadi, who helped break the story of Amini; and Hossein Ronaghi, a prominent blogger and activist who went on a hunger strike to protest his arrest.

Hamedi and Mohammadi have been held in Tehran’s Evin prison complex since late September, while Ronaghi’s family say they have lost contact with him since he was transferred to a hospital, alleging that both his legs were broken while in jail.


Two weeks ago, 227 members of Iran’s 290-seat Parliament signed an open letter to the country’s judiciary asking it to issue death sentences for those protesters who had been arrested, as first reported by Iran’s state-run news agency IRNA. In a statement, Iranian lawmakers called for the severe punishment of those who incited riots and called them “mohareb.” In Islamic or Sharia law, “mohareb” means “Enemy of God” and carries with it the death penalty.

How many executions have taken place so far?
None. But Mizan, a news agency in the country, reports that three protesters have so far been sentenced to death in Tehran by Iran’s revolutionary court since the movement erupted. The first sentence was handed down to a protester who was charged with disturbing public order and peace after being accused of setting fire to a government building. The issued sentences are preliminary and can be appealed, but on a per-capita basis, Iran executes more people than any other country in the world. What’s the status of other protesters?
Uncertain. On Sunday, Mizan also reported that five other unnamed defendants were sentenced to up to 10 years in prison for violating national security and disrupting public order. These sentences can also be appealed. Last week, Judiciary Chief Gholam Hossein Ejei issued a statement claiming that the protesters had “disturbed the security of people, disrupted their livelihood and insulted their sanctities” and would be dealt with “firmly and strongly based on law and fairness,” according to the official Islamic Republic News Agency.Legal experts say that in Iran, it is impossible to seek justice for those killed, or for detained protesters to receive fair trials. Lawyers often don’t have the freedom to defend clients tried under political charges and sometimes face false accusations themselves. The judiciary itself is not independent–often, political and religious trials are determined by intelligence agents and agents of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corp, according to Shirin Ebadi, a Nobel peace prize laureate who was formerly a judge in Iran. Rights groups also allege that detainees are often forced or tortured into providing false confessions based on fabricated evidence during sham trials.... https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/what-to-know-about-protesters-facing-execution-in-iran/ar-AA14e5Eh
#15256376
I feel that it is their right, as a country, to enact the death penalty to prisoners if their lawmakers agree to it. Sounds like the majority are in favor of this. We in the US have no right to tell them how to run their country. It's their way of life, not ours. We can't impose our moral code onto them, or to judge them as "barbaric" for doing this.
#15256417
Agent Steel wrote:I feel that it is their right, as a country, to enact the death penalty to prisoners if their lawmakers agree to it. Sounds like the majority are in favor of this. We in the US have no right to tell them how to run their country. It's their way of life, not ours. We can't impose our moral code onto them, or to judge them as "barbaric" for doing this.


The so-called "lawmakers" know their ass is on the line as soon as there's no Supreme Leader to rig the system in their favour.
#15256427
Sandzak wrote:@Rich In Iran Transgenders are considered women, and their priests can marry you for one night if you pay them, but the workers can not drink beer.

Yes over here in Britain we're often quite ignorant of the Iranian Muslim regime's teachings on sexuality. They can be quite strict I believe. Fro example while sex with female animals is allowed, sex with male animals or by female humans is completely forbidden. So you can have sex with a baby girl, but as I understand it you're supposed to refrain from vaginal sex till she's 9 like the Prophet. I'm not quite clear if you're allowed to sodomise a girl under 9 though.

It must be said the Shia have never been particularly popular in the West amongst either Liberals or Conservatives, with the exception that many on the left have become fond of Hezbollah due to its recent conflicts with Israel. This is why 9/11 came as such a shock to the West, and hence the denial that 9/11 could have anything to do with Sunni Muslims. The Taliban were dismissed as a peculiar product of Afghanistan. Of course then came Islamic State!

I follow the Ottoman Islam which is also influenced by secularism of Atatürk. I hope Iran will get a secular Muslim ruler like the Shia Azerbaijan.

I had forgotten about the Young Turks. That probably displays western bias on my part. The Young Turks were able to counterpoise Turkish nativist nationalism to Ottoman Conservatism. I really can't see how you going to get a a radical secular nationalist movement in Iran. The Young Turks and Ataturk wanted more aggressive resistance to the West not less.
Last edited by Rich on 22 Nov 2022 02:03, edited 1 time in total.
#15256634
Rich wrote:In a way what we we see in Iran at the moment, is a vindication of what I've been arguing for decades, that the best way to de-islamify countries populations is to let them have self determination and democracy. To some extent its only through letting people elect or select theocratic leaders that people can start to see through the lies of Islam...

The bolded part that says "let them have" indicates that you are trying to give advice to the world's policeman.

Your advice is: If the self-appointed global policeman wants a USA-clone democracy in Iran, it should let them have a bit of freedom.

You are talking to the global cop that coup d'étated Irans elected communist governement in the 50s, and sent in its brutal dicator shah to rule like a tyrant for almost 2 decades. The current Islamic regime was the result of the violent revolution in 1980 that got rid of that brutal thug. The one that the global cop installed to get cheap and easy access to oil there.

The only way that empires STOP interfering and destroying other nations is when they collapse and burn. Your advice to them will always fall on deaf ears. They can't be reasoned with because they aren't reasonable - empires. They are the fantasy creations of the spoiled brat kids of the elite.

Rich wrote:...while sex with female animals is allowed, sex with male animals or by female humans is completely forbidden. So you can have sex with a baby girl, but as I understand it you're supposed to refrain from vaginal sex till she's 9 like the Prophet. I'm not quite clear if you're allowed to sodomise a girl under 9 though...

A classic way to build hatred of another culture is to say that they allow too many sexual positions and partner types.

The LBGT communities of this world were often burned at the stake for not screwing their wives through a hole in the sheet.
#15256638
Fasces wrote:They're free to do what they like, with their people's consent, and we're free to find it barbaric.


Agree. Self-determination is the way to freedom and peace.

But I'm glad the young women of Iran have woken up to who their oppressors are. The men think it's America and Israel, the women have some others to add to that list.
#15256971
@Rich Depends on sources which age she had, according Quran :

Holy Prophet to Madina took place three years later, and Aisha came to the household of the Holy Prophet in the second year after hijra. So if Aisha was born in the year of the Call, she would be ten years old at the time of the nikah and fifteen years old at the time of the consummation of the marriage

https://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm
.

Mary was 14 as she gave birth to Jesus, King David had a 2 Year old in his harem (but does not mean they had sex... it was for political figures in Orient normal to seal political alliances with marriages):
#15256990
Sandzak wrote:@Rich Depends on sources which age she had, according Quran :

http://wikiislam.github.io/wiki/Aisha_Age_of_Consummation.html wrote:The arguments raised by some apologists have given many the false impression that Aisha's age is a long contested issue in Islam

I would argue we can't be a hundred percent certain of the existence of Mohamed as we can be say for Caesar Augustus, but if there's one fact about his actions that we know about him its that he had sex with Aisha at the age of nine. If this had been in doubt it would have been in the interest of the early Shia to dispute it. The whole reason that Abu Bakr was so keen for Mohammed to rape his daughter, was in order to secure the succession.
#15257007
Sandzak wrote:Quran was written down in the lifetime of the prophete wheareas the hadiths 300 years later. 15 is in France age of consent and in many cultures.

The conference of Islamabad set it at 16 Years...


ok.... so?
#15257008
Sandzak wrote:Quran was written down in the lifetime of the prophete wheareas the hadiths 300 years later.

That's pure speculation. The Koran in its original form may well have preceded Mohammed. We know both from Muslim legend, the so called Satanic verses and textural analysis, eg the Sanaa manuscript that the Koran was freely modified in its early days. Its quite possible that the 4/ 5 mentions of Mohammed were inserted later.

But even if the Koran was some pure 100% accurate recitation of Muhammad's channelling, which it most patently isn't, the Koran would be next to useless without the Hadith. All the biographies of Mohammed are essentially Hadith. None of the legends of Mohammed or indeed much of the earliest history of his supposed successors can be composed from either the Koran or reliable historical / archaeological sources.
#15257052
Rancid wrote:Where are we on this.

Should I support the protestors or the regime?

Well I know its not much, this is a brutal Muslim Theocratic regime the like of which we haven't seen in Christian Europe for a long time. But I try to support non believers and moderate Muslims under these regimes by an uncompromising attack on the intellectual foundations of Islam. While it may well be tactically unwise for them to directly attack Islam on the inside, we who have the freedom should from the outside. Christianity in most western countries is the walking dead, but it only got that way through relentless attacks both from the inside and outside over a period of centuries.

Beyond that we should be considering setting up Infidel safe-havens in the Middle East. The State of Israel is not enough.
Last edited by Rich on 28 Nov 2022 12:43, edited 1 time in total.
#15257104
Rancid wrote:Should I support the protestors or the regime?


I don't think you need to ask this question at all.
#15257114
Patrickov wrote:I don't think you need to ask this question at all.


Really? Well, what questions need to be asked? Any at all?

Or should we just chase the stick whenever our masters throw it?
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