Russia-Ukraine War 2022 - Page 477 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By litwin
#15257366
Former US General Hodges is consistently on target with his informed analysis.

the pig-dogs are without chances 



#15257455
Potemkin wrote:This is why Putin was frothing at the mouth after Maidan, and why he finally made the reckless decision to invade. In the chess game of international geopolitics, his opponents were threatening to capture his queen.

Good synopsis, but was it really only Putin who reacted strongly to having neo-cons overthrowing the Ukrainian government to bring in American arms? Were all the other Russian leaders "totally okay" with Maidan?

...the reason for the ‘Holodomor’ was to secure the collectivisation of agriculture, to take the Soviet Union’s agricultural production under direct government control, in order to make the industrialisation of the Soviet Union as a whole possible.

Yes, and an even deeper reason for the Holodomor was that the entire world was forced to industrialize by the British Empire. Industrialize or die. And this forced industrialization (Modernize or we'll kill you!) created horrors all over the world. And continues to do so.
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By ingliz
#15257459
litwin wrote:consistently on target with his informed analysis

A consistent loser, then.

I assume he was an officer when the US army lost two - arguably three - very expensive wars against illiterate farmers.


:)
#15257472
litwin wrote:Former US General Hodges is consistently on target with his informed analysis.


That means he tells you exactly what you want to hear.
#15257489
Potemkin wrote:No, the reason for the ‘Holodomor’ was to secure the collectivisation of agriculture, to take the Soviet Union’s agricultural production under direct government control, in order to make the industrialisation of the Soviet Union as a whole possible. After all, even in Britain the Industrial Revolution was preceded by an agricultural revolution, without which the industrial revolution would not have been possible.


What utter nonsense is that? Are you pretending that some primitive agricultural reforms implemented in the 18th century were new to Ukrainian farmers in the 1930s? And why would that even require collectivisation when it didn't anywhere else? Collectivisation absolutely tanked agricultural productivity in Ukraine and China. It was stupid as fuck at best and evil beyond comprehension at worst.

ingliz wrote:I assume he was an officer when the US army lost two - arguably three - very expensive wars against illiterate farmers.


The US won its recent conventional wars in record time you moron.

Negotiator wrote:That means he tells you exactly what you want to hear.


US experts have been pretty good in predicting the course of this war.

Meanwhile you could fill a library with "aged like milk" tweets/speeches from Russian morons. Except Girkin I guess.
User avatar
By Wels
#15257538
Russian plan to capture Ukraine:
escape of state leadership, Ukrainian Armed Forces betrayal and mass executions of patriots

Analytical report published on the site of Institute, Censor.NЕТ.*

"The British Royal United Services Institute has published a plan according to which the Russians expected to capture Ukraine within 10 days.
Its authors believe that the Kremlin planned to complete the active phase of the invasion within 10 days - at that time Kyiv was to be taken. The Russians planned to fully occupy Ukraine by August 2022.


For this purpose, at the beginning of the invasion, Russia created a group in the north of Kyiv, which had an advantage of about 12:1 over the Armed Forces of Ukraine in this direction. But it still failed to realize the advantage.

The plan ignored the possibility of tough retaliatory actions by the Ukrainian Armed Forces and proved to be completely unsuitable when the Russian forces met with strong resistance.

The Russians expected that Ukrainian government officials would flee or be captured, and that the command of the Armed Forces would betray their oath of allegiance to the Ukrainian people.

In particular, in the first days of the invasion, most of Ukraine's generals received personal messages from Russian military commanders urging them to surrender and assuring them that Russia allegedly "does not intend to do Ukraine any harm." Almost all senior officers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces received similar messages sent from anonymous phone numbers.

The Russians planned to capture or execute people involved in the Revolution of Dignity in 2014.

They planned to subject the civilian population to a filtering process and divide them into four main categories:

irreconcilable, to be physically eliminated;

disloyal, who could be persuaded or intimidated;

neutral, who can be persuaded to cooperate;

fully loyal, ready to cooperate;

Analysts point out that the FSB conducted exercises with the involvement of airborne troops to capture or destroy the "extremely disloyal".


The "moderately disloyal" were planned to be identified through door-to-door visits and then "processed" in filtration camps with the involvement of counterintelligence. Some of the disloyal were to be deported to Russia, others were to be used to control the underground resistance."


*https://censor.net/en/n3384389

Reading this thoroughly it is hard not to succumb to the urge to see Moscow burn.
#15257541
Wels wrote:Reading this thoroughly it is hard not to succumb to the urge to see Moscow burn.


It actually has to happen, even if it means the death of possibly millions of innocent people -- they are suffering anyways...
User avatar
By Rancid
#15257624
Rugoz wrote:What utter nonsense is that? Are you pretending that some primitive agricultural reforms implemented in the 18th century were new to Ukrainian farmers in the 1930s? And why would that even require collectivisation when it didn't anywhere else? Collectivisation absolutely tanked agricultural productivity in Ukraine and China. It was stupid as fuck at best and evil beyond comprehension at worst.


Of course, but to @Potemkin's point. The idea was to transition Ukraine into communism. The soviets decided to put Ukraine on the fast track towards communism. In their eyes, to get to the communist paradise, you must go through an agricultural revolution, then an industrial revolution (i.e. capitalism), then you can evolve into communism. To the Soviets, the human loss that would occur during this process simply didn't matter. The end goal was the most important. In other words, the Soviets had a long tradition of "The ends is always justified by even the nastiest of means because individuals don't matter, the revolution is what matters". People individually, did not matter to them. Hence, the horrors of the Holodomor.

China practiced exactly the same idea in terrible fashion as well.
By Rugoz
#15257656
Rancid wrote:Of course, but to @Potemkin's point. The idea was to transition Ukraine into communism. The soviets decided to put Ukraine on the fast track towards communism. In their eyes, to get to the communist paradise, you must go through an agricultural revolution, then an industrial revolution (i.e. capitalism), then you can evolve into communism. To the Soviets, the human loss that would occur during this process simply didn't matter. The end goal was the most important. In other words, the Soviets had a long tradition of "The ends is always justified by even the nastiest of means because individuals don't matter, the revolution is what matters". People individually, did not matter to them. Hence, the horrors of the Holodomor.

China practiced exactly the same idea in terrible fashion as well.


What ends? Reducing agricultural output such that less people can be fed and less machines from abroad can be purchased? :eh:
User avatar
By Rancid
#15257659
Rugoz wrote:What ends? Reducing agricultural output such that less people can be fed and less machines from abroad can be purchased? :eh:


The end being the great workers revolution I guess.
#15257677
Rancid wrote:In their eyes, to get to the communist paradise, you must go through an agricultural revolution, then an industrial revolution (i.e. capitalism), then you can evolve into communism. To the Soviets, the human loss that would occur during this process simply didn't matter. The end goal was the most important.

I wonder if they were into modernisation itself rather than communism, especially Stalin himself. He was rather practical than ideological and, at least as a statesman, saw Marxism as an ideological basis for a non-capitalist and non-liberal modernisation programme to make Russia or the Russian empire (in the form of the USSR) great again.
By ness31
#15257710
So, the EU, the G7 and Australia are going to cap Russian oil at 60 dollars a barrel but they aren’t supposed to buying it anyway? :roll:

I wish I was never born. I’m living in a fucking dark age.
#15257712
Beren wrote:I wonder if they were into modernisation itself rather than communism, especially Stalin himself. He was rather practical than ideological and, at least as a statesman, saw Marxism as an ideological basis for a non-capitalist and non-liberal modernisation programme to make Russia or the Russian empire (in the form of the USSR) great again.


A practical megalomaniac in short.

That makes him the Devil of his time. Too bad Hitler outdid him, partly by being geographically too close to the West.
User avatar
By litwin
#15257726
Who want hunger, cold and get toasted by Himars. Good decision .... 1917 is coming 8)
“When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.”
— Thomas Jefferson
#15257760
Patrickov wrote:A practical megalomaniac in short.

That makes him the Devil of his time. Too bad Hitler outdid him, partly by being geographically too close to the West.

I tend to believe that despite his vices, flaws and mistakes supporting Stalin was actually a must following the Nazi takeover in Germany.
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