[Torus34]

Another example of "germ theory" applied to sociology and law (because germ theory is modern man's primary narrative)... would be witch burning.

I would argue that burning witches (social germs) is never going to cure social programs.

Torus34 is arguing that we should burn a few witches so as not to be overly ideological. But I disagree.

The burning of witches did NOT lead to a more harmonius human civilization or social order. The presence of witches among us ...was just one of the background fears that kept the colonists genociding the First Nations. Scapegoating.

Every genocide looked like a victory to the colonists. Every genocide looked like germ-eradication. For germ-targetting colonists, the First Nations were just another evil germ.

According to Torus, they should have been "a little bit" genocided... so as not to be too ideological.

Thing is, Germ Theory is much bigger than an ideology. It's one of our most important modern narratives. And it has been maintained for the last few centuries... by denying the logical conclusions of Darwin's work and much else that has been discovered ever since.


I don't find the maps you provided very helpful in this thread so far. Think Grand Narratives.

(ie. Should mankind continue to target EVIL for irradication, or should mankind try to understand other people better so that we can cooperate with them? (this is the more generalist interpretation of germ theory that shows what a Grand Narrative it is))

Hi, QatzelOK.

I made no such argument. I made no such statement.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

[late]

Hi, QatzelOK.

I made no such argument. I made no such statement.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

He's saying you're brainwashed, so what you say doesn't matter.

I suspect it's how he's dealing with his cognitive dissonance.

[ckaihatsu]

You are here

I don't find the maps you provided very helpful in this thread so far. Think Grand Narratives.

(ie. Should mankind continue to target EVIL for irradication, or should mankind try to understand other people better so that we can cooperate with them? (this is the more generalist interpretation of germ theory that shows what a Grand Narrative it is))

Of *course* I'm for cooperation -- or 'synergy', to borrow a business term.

(Please note 'cooperation' in the middle column of the following diagram.)


Humanities-Technology Chart 2.0

Spoiler: show

[Torus34]

He's saying you're brainwashed, so what you say doesn't matter.

I suspect it's how he's dealing with his cognitive dissonance.

Hi, late.

Better late than never. Thank you for your response.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

[late]

Better late than never.

That may not make for much of a lifestyle, but it's mine, has been since dinosaurs roamed the Earth.

[ckaihatsu]

I would argue that burning witches (social germs) is never going to cure social programs.

---

Hi, QatzelOK.

I made no such argument. I made no such statement.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

He's saying you're brainwashed, so what you say doesn't matter.

I suspect it's how he's dealing with his cognitive dissonance.

It's *anti-eugenics*, people.

[late]

It's *anti-eugenics*, people.

What does Eugene have to do with it?

[ckaihatsu]

What does Eugene have to do with it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Eugenics ... ted_States

[late]

I know what eugenics was the day your daddy got lucky.

Two can do goofball just as easily as one...

[ckaihatsu]

I know what eugenics was the day your daddy got lucky.

Two can do goofball just as easily as one...

Oh, okay, you wanna do *abrasive* -- ? Well, then, um... you *win*.


= /


= )

[QatzelOk]

It's *anti-eugenics*, people.

Exactly.

Eugenics sets out the idea that certain human traits are "germs," and that if we eradicate them, we will live better.

Darwin would have said "we have no idea which human traits will help us survive as a species."

Globally, humans have found so many "germs" to kill, that it looks like the meta-germ that humanity has been trying to kill is NATURE itself.

Once we kill that, will the earth finally be filled with hygiene? (end empty of living creatures)

***

Are Your Cleaning Products Making You Sick?



Most homes contain more chemicals than what the average chemistry lab had at the turn of the century. The Consumer Product Safety Commission has sited regular household cleaning products are some of the most dangerous products in our homes today.

I challenge you just reach under your kitchen sink and bathroom and see what types of cleaning and personal care supplies are lurking there. Have you found Windex or other window cleaners? Bleach or laundry and dish washing detergent. All of these products can be violent, lethal poisons with the potential to serisously inure your child or make an adult sick....

[ckaihatsu]

Exactly.

Eugenics sets out the idea that certain human traits are "germs," and that if we eradicate them, we will live better.

Outdated "science" / arguably-proto-science, but with no solid empirical *or* theoretical founding.

I criticize *philosophy* / religion for being 'one-size-fits-all', and the *eugenics* mindset is *also* monolithically prescriptive, or *ideological*.


Consciousness, A Material Definition

Spoiler: show

---

Darwin would have said "we have no idea which human traits will help us survive as a species."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of ... elligences

Globally, humans have found so many "germs" to kill, that it looks like the meta-germ that humanity has been trying to kill is NATURE itself.

This, though, Qatzel, is quite *sensationalistic*, which is what the media / *right-wing*, does, as I'm sure you know.

I don't think there's a conscious humanity political *agenda*, as you seem to be implying -- it's more about capitalist corporations run amuck over the entire globe (as with Michael Moore's documentaries, for example).

Once we kill that, will the earth finally be filled with hygiene? (end empty of living creatures)

Is this your actual political 'line', or are you just using fine-sounding *rhetoric* here -- ?

[ckaihatsu]

Outdated "science" / arguably-proto-science, but with no solid empirical *or* theoretical founding.

I'll add that since the philosophical / religious / eugenics mindset is based on *idealism* (Cartesian dualism), it inherently puts the cart-before-the-horse.


universal context

Spoiler: show

[ckaihatsu]

Scientism is the opinion that science and the scientific method are the best or only way to render truth about the world and reality.[1][2]

While the term was defined originally to mean "methods and attitudes typical of or attributed to natural scientists", some scholars (and subsequently many others) also adopted it as a pejorative term with the meaning "an exaggerated trust in the efficacy of the methods of natural science applied to all areas of investigation (as in philosophy, the social sciences, and the humanities)".[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism

[QatzelOk]

I don't think there's a conscious humanity political *agenda*, as you seem to be implying...

I am not implying any agency whatsover on the part of either cattle or farmer.

I am saying that this relationship has lead to humans "killing germs" as a way of scapegoating their increasingly perilous relationship with their own environment ever since the first technologies were foisted upon them.

Killing germs is part of our learned stupidity, it isn't an ideology in itself.
The ideology that lead to "germ-killing" is :

CONTROLLING ELITES that are experts that know what they are doing because they have special and complete knowledge. (Gnosticism)

"You will have no germs, and you will be happy." Klaus Kontrol Freak

[ckaihatsu]

I am not implying any agency whatsover on the part of either cattle or farmer.

I am saying that this relationship has lead to humans "killing germs" as a way of scapegoating their increasingly perilous relationship with their own environment ever since the first technologies were foisted upon them.

Killing germs is part of our learned stupidity, it isn't an ideology in itself.
The ideology that lead to "germ-killing" is :

CONTROLLING ELITES that are experts that know what they are doing because they have special and complete knowledge. (Gnosticism)

"You will have no germs, and you will be happy." Klaus Kontrol Freak

Okay, it's a good critique of 'Big Chemical' as much as any current critique of Big Tobacco or Big Oil.

I'm pro-science and pro-sanitation, but I know that the now-mainstream 'gut bacteria' research shows that the body needs *alkalinity* (from fruits and vegetables, not from meat or grains) for the correct type of gut bacteria, while antibiotics just wipe out *everything*, both 'good' and 'bad' bacteria, and then the good bacteria have to be *reintroduced* to the body, with subsequent *adjustment*, etc., presumably.

F.y.i.:


Mad scientist's homestead is parking size, off-grid system

[ckaihatsu]

scientific method

9. OPTIMIZATION / PERFECTION / FINE-TUNING

8. CONCEIVABLE / IMAGINED / GOAL / WISHFUL THINKING

7. EXPECTED / REASONED / THEORIZED

6. OBSERVED (after) / EXECUTION / HOW-IT-WENT

5. EXPERIMENTATION by SCALE or SCOPE (core, periphery)

4. ACTIVITY / TASK / SOCIAL ORGANIZATION / MATERIAL INPUT-OUTPUT

3. HYPOTHESIS (of new situation) / RESPONSE

2. ANALYSIS (of RELEVANT PAST) / CONFIRMATION

1. OBSERVED (before) / RELEVANT PAST / RESEARCH

database-type functionality

A Few Tools for Your Computer [March 16, 2022]

viewtopic.php?p=15218131#p15218131

[QatzelOk]

Okay, it's a good critique of 'Big Chemical' as much as any current critique of Big Tobacco or Big Oil.

It's also a good critique of most Western religions of the last few millenia.

Original Sin = Germ



ORIGINAL SINTM is the germ that many modern religions encourage humans to eradicate. And since Germ Theory dates only from the 16th Century - well after the forced Christian conversion of Europe, this would suggest that Original Sin theory is what made Germ theory seem logical. Original sin lead to Germ theory. It just fit into the thinking of the time period (See The Order of Things, Michel Foucault).

Trying to destroy "our original sin" has lead humans to all sorts of behavioral contortions.
Are these healthy for us as individuals or as a group?
Or do they cause our greatest miseries and self-harm?

[ckaihatsu]

It's also a good critique of most Western religions of the last few millenia.

[size= 150]Original Sin = Germ[/size]



ORIGINAL SIN[size= 50]TM[/size] is the germ that many modern religions encourage humans to eradicate. And since Germ Theory dates only from the 16th Century - well after the forced Christian conversion of Europe, this would suggest that Original Sin theory is what made Germ theory seem logical. Original sin lead to Germ theory. It just fit into the thinking of the time period (See The Order of Things, Michel Foucault).

Trying to destroy "our original sin" has lead humans to all sorts of behavioral contortions.
Are these healthy for us as individuals or as a group?
Or do they cause our greatest miseries and self-harm?

---

The germ theory of disease is the currently accepted scientific theory for many diseases. It states that microorganisms known as pathogens or "germs" can lead to disease. These small organisms, too small to be seen without magnification, invade humans, other animals, and other living hosts. Their growth and reproduction within their hosts can cause disease. "Germ" refers to not just a bacterium but to any type of microorganism, such as protists or fungi, or even non-living pathogens that can cause disease, such as viruses, prions, or viroids.[1] Diseases caused by pathogens are called infectious diseases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory_of_disease

---

Germ theory denialism is the pseudoscientific belief that germs do not cause infectious disease, and that the germ theory of disease is wrong.[1] It usually involves arguing that Louis Pasteur's model of infectious disease was wrong, and that Antoine Béchamp's was right. In fact, its origins are rooted in Béchamp's empirically disproven (in the context of disease) theory of pleomorphism.[2] Another obsolete variation is known as terrain theory and postulates that the state of the internal environment determines if germs cause disease rather than germs being the sole cause of it.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Germ_theory_denialism

[QatzelOk]

The germ theory of disease is the currently accepted scientific theory for many diseases. It states that microorganisms known as pathogens or "germs" can lead to disease. These small organisms, too small to be seen without magnification, invade humans, other animals, and other living hosts. Their growth and reproduction within their hosts can cause disease. "Germ" refers to not just a bacterium but to any type of microorganism, such as protists or fungi, or even non-living pathogens that can cause disease, such as viruses, prions, or viroids.[1] Diseases caused by pathogens are called infectious diseases.

Likewise...

The original sin theory of perdition is the currently accepted spiritual theory for many social problems. It states that impure thoughts and actions known as "sins" can lead to an afterlife in the lake of fire. These micro-aggressions against the creator - too complex to be understood by the human mind - lead to a list of sins at the Pearly Gates that cause infinities in hell. (etc)

The similarities are too perfect to ignore.

Have you cleansed your soul of all those sins, ckaihatsu? If not for yourself, for the sake of other people's souls?