[litwin]

May be, i will still go with conservative estimates in my mind. If they lost 3.3 trillion in a year with very good oil and gas prices while exporting everything, then the hole should be much much larger when the exports are cut, the prices are lower and the logistics cost severely more.

It doesn't mean that they won't try accounting and tax trickery to make it a bit better but there are limitations to this if they don't go to extreme measures like literally freezing accounts and taking money from the people. That in itself I guess is default with how many banks are state owned or semi-state owned.

Real monetary issues and measures will appear at the end of summer probably. Before that tax squeezing and accounting trickery probably will happen but that won't be enough with the monetary hole they are in. I don't think that the competent part of the Russian leadership will be able to fix this without course correction. You can find 100 billion there or a trillion here but you can't do that consistently, over years while the hole just keeps getting larger and larger.

dont forget about USA/Liberal order pressure , which works well Moscow produces 1 % of the world GDP, its Spanish size economy against all of us .

ps
great post man

[litwin]

[Wels]

Germany appears like a little girl throwing a tantrum. I think they forced the hands of the US into providing Abrams which honestly are not likely to be as helpful in proportion to the logistics of having that behemoth delivered (and maintained) to Ukraine. [...]

You could read behind the lines that the US was pushing for Europe to source those weapons from what they already had there, lighter and easier to help maintain, but the germans are pussying out because they are afraid the Russians will retaliate against germany and want to make sure they drag the US into it.

->

[Wels]

Update from today, tanks being sent to Ukraine: 14 Polish, 14+ German, 14 British, 30-50 American, maybe 19 Dutch, possibly more tanks from Portugal, Slovenia and the Czech Republic. Maybe Spain.

[litwin]

Update from today, tanks being sent to Ukraine: 14 Polish, 14+ German, 14 British, 30-50 American, maybe 19 Dutch, possibly more tanks from Portugal, Slovenia and the Czech Republic. Maybe Spain.

MANY MANY MORE ...

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=183250&p=15263026#p15263026

[Rich]

Joe Biden has already been immensely generous with American equipment

Rifles, helmets, night vison goggles.
Almost 2,000 Humvees and truck
More than 50 armored fighting vehicles, including Mine-Resistant Ambush Protection vehicles, or MRAPs
Scores of artillery and mortar pieces
More than a dozen aging but working helicopters and attack aircraft
A dozen tanks
Seven Boeing-manufactured drones
And millions upon millions of bullets

Oh sorry my mistake, I was getting my lists muddled up. That's what joe Biden donated to the Taliban.

[Potemkin]

Joe Biden has already been immensely generous with American equipment

Rifles, helmets, night vison goggles.
Almost 2,000 Humvees and truck
More than 50 armored fighting vehicles, including Mine-Resistant Ambush Protection vehicles, or MRAPs
Scores of artillery and mortar pieces
More than a dozen aging but working helicopters and attack aircraft
A dozen tanks
Seven Boeing-manufactured drones
And millions upon millions of bullets

Oh sorry my mistake, I was getting my lists muddled up. That's what joe Biden donated to the Taliban.

Joe Biden and Donald Trump. It was a joint effort.

When the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, America turned it into their Vietnam. And when America invaded Afghanistan, America turned it into their Vietnam. Lol.

[ingliz]

MANY MANY MORE ...

Enjoy them while you can. Obsolescent and soon to be obsolete. The reputation of Germany’s vaunted Leopard 2 tank, which forms the mainstay of NATO’s armored forces, has taken a pounding in battles with Islamic State militants in Syria.

[Beren]

The reputation of Germany’s vaunted Leopard 2 tank, which forms the mainstay of NATO’s armored forces, has taken a pounding in battles with Islamic State militants in Syria.

What do you mean and was it the fault of the Leopard 2 itself indeed?

EDIT: Damn you, ingliz, why do you always use your sources so falsely and manipulatively?

KAISERSLAUTERN, Germany — The reputation of Germany’s vaunted Leopard 2 tank, which forms the mainstay of NATO’s armored forces, has taken a pounding in battles with Islamic State militants in Syria.

At least 10 of the 60-ton main battle tanks have been destroyed during a Turkish attempt to recapture the strategically important northern town of al-Bab, located just 15 miles south of the Turkish border, media reports have said.

The Turks have deployed several thousand soldiers in the operation, which began in September. But despite airstrikes by Russian warplanes in support of the advancing troops, they have been unable to take the town in the face of determined opposition.

Several dozen Turkish soldiers and local allies have died in the combat. Germany’s Die Welt newspaper said at least 10 Leopard 2s were destroyed and many others damaged in street fighting on the outskirts of al-Bab. The rebels are said to have used both U.S.-made TOW and Russian Kornet anti-tank missiles in attacks on the tanks.

Turkey’s leaders have criticized the Obama administration last month for not providing strike support to their units engaged in the al-Bab operation.

The 60-ton Leopard 2, built by Bavaria’s Krauss-Maffei, has been in service since the 1980s. A total of 2,100 were bought by the German army. But after the Cold War, defense cuts caused a sharp reduction in numbers, and only 325 of a modernized version currently remain in the inventory of the country’s panzer units. About 20 of these are the heavily redesigned and modernized A7 model, but many are earlier A4 models — the same as used by the Turkish army.

Leopard 2s were widely exported over the years. A number of countries — including Austria, Denmark, Finland, Greece, the Netherlands, Turkey, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland — have equipped their armies with the model. After the end of the Cold War, the German army started selling off surplus armored vehicles, and many other allies, such as Poland, took advantage of discounts to equip their armored fleets with the German panzers.

The tank gained a reputation as “indestructible” in 2003, when a Canadian Leopard 2 famously survived without casualties and only minor damage a massive Taliban land mine explosion.

But critics have said the tanks, which were specifically designed to counter a Soviet armored thrust through the north German plains, are not suitable for combat in an urban environment.

The frontal armor on the hull and turret on the Leopard 2 is much thicker than on the sides and rear of the tracked vehicle.

The tank’s designers, who sought to achieve an optimal combination of protection, agility, and fire power, have always stressed the need for maneuverability on the battlefield, making the armor on its flanks and back lighter than on other other Western tanks such as the U.S. M1A2 Abrams or the British Challenger 2.

Also, the Turkish Leopards don’t have explosive reactive armor or active protection systems to block incoming rounds. Active protection systems deal with threats such as rocket-propelled grenades or anti-tank guided missiles by combining electronic detection of hostile fire with jammers, smoke screens and interceptors intended to destroy the threats.

The Islamic State militants appear to have seized on this vulnerability to attack the Leopards when they entered al-Bab, targeting its flanks and rear in attacks that forced the Turkish army to abandon its thrust into the city.

Ralf Rath, head of the Panzermuseum in Munster, said the photos and videos on the internet that showed the destruction of Leopard tanks in Syria made it clear that the tanks were vulnerable.

“Contrary to common perceptions, tanks are no individual fighters,” he said. Referring to videos that showed the Leopards moving alone into al-Bab, he said that on urban battlefields “tanks always need infantry alongside that can protect their vulnerable flanks.”

Marcus Kloeckner contributed to this story.kloekner.marcus@stripes.com

[Szabo]

I don’t understand why the Russians are bitching so much about tanks being sent, seeing as they’re weapons of a purely defensive nature. It’s bizarre! Besides, the Russian military is the the biggest super duper army in the universe, and should be happy about getting a chance to prove their mettle in mortal combat like the true slavonic predator warriors that they are. Their leader had the biggest dick the world.

Also they have their own indestructible tanks. Just ya’ll wait, you’ll see how western tanks will burn:

Russia preparing to deploy T-14 Armata tanks
The British Ministry of Defence says amid the Ukraine war the focus is on the Russian-made T-14 Armata tanks, which Moscow has prepared in small numbers “for the type’s first operational deployment” in the war-torn country.

“However, in recent months, deployed Russian forces were reluctant to accept the first tranche of T-14 allocated to them because the vehicles were in such poor condition,” it said in its latest update.

[Beren]

So they only mean to force them to bring out the T-14?

[Szabo]

So they only mean to force them to bring out the T-14?

It’s all part of the russian plan.

[Beren]

It’s all part of the russian plan.

So they're preparing for the T-14 actually.

[litwin]

Enjoy them while you can. Obsolescent and soon to be obsolete. The reputation of Germany’s vaunted Leopard 2 tank, which forms the mainstay of NATO’s armored forces, has taken a pounding in battles with Islamic State militants in Syria.

you your RT. buddies hate this news so much ?

[litwin]

It’s all part of the russian plan.

bad bad news for the horde, this time we send not just made in ussr 70 years old crap Moscow feels a lot of pain today

[litwin]

[Beren]

you your RT.

He actually grabbed the opening sentence out of an article (and context) from Stars and Stripes.

[litwin]

Moscow About To Declare A “Real” War With The West? Here’s What They Say In Interceptions

[litwin]

RT: "We must kill tens of thousands of Americans"

FOR THOSE WHO STILL HAVE ILLUSIONS ABOUT MOSCOW EMPIRE ....

[Szabo]

So they're preparing for the T-14 actually.

Don’t take my sarcastic, pro Putin post seriously. I just like to play the role of the idiot Russian imperialist every once in a while. it cracks me up.

I don’t know about the Armata tanks, I quoted an article that spoke about them being deployed in small numbers, despite complaints that Russian soldiers have about them. it’s probably bullshit anyway, just like most everything the Russian army has been doing. At the most, they’ll be deployed in small numbers and have as much effect as tiger tanks had for the Germans.