The Police Murder of Tyre Nichols - Page 11 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15263971
After WW2, the FBI started policing the police. It didn't have anything to do with race, at first.

But it did have to do with abuse of power, and the violence perpetrated on the Black community is clearly an abuse of power.

It also has to do with the historic shift towards effective, science based policing; that has been a goal for over a century.

Clowns can spend their entire lives running away from the obvious. But they will still be clowns, and the obvious will still be obvious.
#15263976
So for example, clowns can spend their entire lives running away from the obvious problems that come with public sector unions and obfuscate the issues with making them mainly about race even when they're not? You're onto something here, @late
#15263983
wat0n wrote:
So for example, clowns can spend their entire lives running away from the obvious problems that come with public sector unions and obfuscate the issues with making them mainly about race even when they're not? You're onto something here, @late



They say old BS is the best...
#15264011
Rancid wrote:I think too many of us, left and right are still missing the fundamental issue here.

Policing in general fucking sucks in the US. From training to culture, it's all shit. Doesn't matter if the cop is a fucking zombie. Cop culture is trash, and it's time for the right to stop defending it, and it's time for the left to stop pinning everything wrong with policing on race.


100%.

I also think a fair % of the general population are a-holes. And policing tends to attracts a-holes and tough guys who want power. And when they think they're not on camera these a-holes act like a-holes. And even when they're on camera some still act like a-holes as evidenced by countless Youtube vids.

Funny that the bodycam footage released didn't show much except the cops lying about the dead guy trying to grab their guns. Where's the body cam footage of the cops as they beat the crap out of the guy? The family is lucky there was a street cam pointed on the cops as they beat him to death that the cops didn't know was watching them.

In my city they are too cheap to even buy cops any body cams.
#15264015
wat0n wrote:Concepts don't need to be explicitly mentioned in platforms to be addressed. It's just a matter of promising things such as a fair city government for all or to bridge racial gaps in the city to address the issue. Even more so in the case of Herenton, who's estimated to have commanded 99% of the African American vote in the city and whose campaign started with an event where he was the consensus nominee for mayor of the African American community of the city. Or am I supposed to believe the African American community of Memphis wouldn't want to be treated fairly by the city?

And yes, Herenton did run on a campaign that was based on lifting up the African American community of the city.


So, as far as you know, systemic racism has never been an election campaign issue.

Consequently, your demographics argument as to why this murder cannot be partly caused by systemic racism is unsupported and probably wrong.

Or they didn't plan things as much.


So they openly concocted an obvious lie on footage they knew the prosecutor would see, in order to fool the prosecutor.

That is your argument.

I'm still waiting for you to prove what I am expecting you to prove. Are you going to do so? Are you going to prove the cops beat up Tyre Nichols to death because they thought they could get away with it?

I already addressed this claim so I don't see a need to repeat myself.


Let us clarify:

You are now taking back your argument that (the murder could not be partly due systemic racism because) the police were and are aware of how systemic racism in policing occurs.

You had even presented evidence.

But now you want us to believe that black cops are less aware of how systemic racism in policing works than a couple Latino immigrants with office jobs.

Yes, you are. Also, it seems you believe that a survey saying most African American cops believe there is systemic racism in policing means all African American cops believe so. It's entirely possible these cops are in the minority who do not. It is up to you to prove otherwise, then explain how is it that it was a factor yet a beating the cops - by virtue of their training - are presumed to know can kill someone else was not premeditated.


So we agree that the statistical probability is that these cops are fully aware of how racism in policing works.

That kind of culture isn't exclusive to the police. I'd say it's common within government in general, regardless of the country.

And it's not just about corruption, in fact I'd say it's mostly not about corruption. Often it's simply about not wanting to do things differently and a major reason for government workers to unionize by the way.

Cops are obviously not an exception here, why should one expect them to?


This starts with a whataboutism, segues into a strawman about corruption, and then makes a clumsy attempt to blame it on unions.

This makes it hard to have an intelligent discussion about the blue wall of silence.
#15264017
Pants-of-dog wrote:So, as far as you know, systemic racism has never been an election campaign issue.

Consequently, your demographics argument as to why this murder cannot be partly caused by systemic racism is unsupported and probably wrong.


No, as far as I know that is definitely not the case. It seems you didn't read anything above.

Why do you, a White Chilean communist whose political projects have been an abject failure in Chile, feel the need to tell African Americans how to vote?

Pants-of-dog wrote:So they openly concocted an obvious lie on footage they knew the prosecutor would see, in order to fool the prosecutor.

That is your argument.


Yours is that they beat up Tyre Nichols to death because they believed they could get away with it, yet at the same time the beating was obviously not premeditated.

It seems to me your narrative makes little sense here. If as you said the cops didn't have the foresight to premeditate the beating, then why do you think they'll have such a foresight to avoid making up a poor excuse on the go after the fact?

Pants-of-dog wrote:Let us clarify:

You are now taking back your argument that (the murder could not be partly due systemic racism because) the police were and are aware of how systemic racism in policing occurs.

You had even presented evidence.

But now you want us to believe that black cops are less aware of how systemic racism in policing works than a couple Latino immigrants with office jobs.


You on the other hand believe you can tell African Americans how to vote. Why?

Also, why do you forget about the fact that almost 30% of African American cops believe policing is actually fair in the US?

Pants-of-dog wrote:So we agree that the statistical probability is that these cops are fully aware of how racism in policing works.


We aren't dealing with probabilities here. Do you know what their views regarding policing in the US are?

Pants-of-dog wrote:This starts with a whataboutism, segues into a strawman about corruption, and then makes a clumsy attempt to blame it on unions.

This makes it hard to have an intelligent discussion about the blue wall of silence.


Why did the police unions defend Jason Van Dyke even after he was judged guilty of second degree murder for killing Laquan MacDonald?

Unthinking Majority wrote:100%.

I also think a fair % of the general population are a-holes. And policing tends to attracts a-holes and tough guys who want power. And when they think they're not on camera these a-holes act like a-holes. And even when they're on camera some still act like a-holes as evidenced by countless Youtube vids.

Funny that the bodycam footage released didn't show much except the cops lying about the dead guy trying to grab their guns. Where's the body cam footage of the cops as they beat the crap out of the guy? The family is lucky there was a street cam pointed on the cops as they beat him to death that the cops didn't know was watching them.

In my city they are too cheap to even buy cops any body cams.


There is footage of the beating itself if you look for it:

https://vimeo.com/CityofMemphis
#15264018
wat0n wrote:No, as far as I know that is definitely not the case. It seems you didn't read anything above.

Why do you, a White Chilean communist whose political projects have been an abject failure in Chile, feel the need to tell African Americans how to vote?


Since you are resorting to personal attacks, this tangent is over.

Yours is that they beat up Tyre Nichols to death because they believed they could get away with it, yet at the same time the beating was obviously not premeditated.

It seems to me your narrative makes little sense here. If as you said the cops didn't have the foresight to premeditate the beating, then why do you think they'll have such a foresight to avoid making up a poor excuse on the go after the fact?


Since mere awareness of how systemic racism operates does not equal premeditation, this attempt at deflection is odd.

I assume you concede that your argument (i.e that the murderer cops recorded themselves making up an obvious lie because they stupid and poor planners) is very weak.

You on the other hand believe you can tell African Americans how to vote. Why?

Also, why do you forget about the fact that almost 30% of African American cops believe policing is actually fair in the US?


As long as we are clear that you are withdrawing your argument.

We aren't dealing with probabilities here. Do you know what their views regarding policing in the US are?


Yes, we can assume that the murderer cops believed that other cops would cover for them since they did not even try to appear contrite while being filmed.

Now, you can assume that this was due to systemic racism and the blue wall of silence, or we can assume (as you do) that they did not think about the consequences at all.

Why do you think these murderer cops are not aware of how systemic racism works?

Why did the police unions defend Jason Van Dyke even after he was judged guilty of second degree murder for killing Laquan MacDonald?


Because cops protect each other, even to the extent of openly aiding and abetting murderers.

And this is the status quo you have defended for pages now.
#15264020
Pants-of-dog wrote:Since you are resorting to personal attacks, this tangent is over.


No, @Pants-of-dog it's just a statement of a fact. Why do you feel like you can tell African Americans how to vote?

Don't you think that if 99% of African American voters of Memphis supported Herenton in 1991 and 97% of them did so in 1995 it's because they felt he represented their interests?

Pants-of-dog wrote:Since mere awareness of how systemic racism operates does not equal premeditation, this attempt at deflection is odd.

I assume you concede that your argument (i.e that the murderer cops recorded themselves making up an obvious lie because they stupid and poor planners) is very weak.


Yet premeditation is most definitely necessary if you claim this beating was caused by systemic racism, which is what you claimed.

Pants-of-dog wrote:As long as we are clear that you are withdrawing your argument.


What argument exactly? It seems you are trying too hard to set up a straw man, an extremely dumb one at that, just to beat it down.

Hint: Just because 57% of people agree with a statement, it doesn't mean 100% of people agree with that statement.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, we can assume that the murderer cops believed that other cops would cover for them since they did not even try to appear contrite while being filmed.

Now, you can assume that this was due to systemic racism and the blue wall of silence, or we can assume (as you do) that they did not think about the consequences at all.

Why do you think these murderer cops are not aware of how systemic racism works?


What makes you think these cops beat Tyre Nichols because they thought they could get away with it yet at the same time they got carried away and did not think about the possible consequences of their actions?

Don't you think that alone shows they lack foresight, thereby leaving the rest of your theory groundless?

Pants-of-dog wrote:Because cops protect each other, even to the extent of openly aiding and abetting murderers.

And this is the status quo you have defended for pages now.


You are the one defending unions here. Police unions are not the only ones who do this kind of thing.

We even saw the same happened with some killer nurses in Canada, a couple of years ago. And one thing we saw is that the nurse unions were quite similar to police unions, not just in defending their affiliates but also in pushing for collective agreements that would bar employers from reporting misconduct when other providers would request references of workers fired for such misconduct. This is something police unions also do, and lets police officers get away with misconduct in one department by simply getting a job elsewhere.

Why is it only bad when police unions do it?
#15264021
wat0n wrote:Yet premeditation is most definitely necessary if you claim this beating was caused by systemic racism, which is what you claimed.


No, it is not.

[
What argument exactly? It seems you are trying too hard to set up a straw man, an extremely dumb one at that, just to beat it down.

Hint: Just because 57% of people agree with a statement, it doesn't mean 100% of people agree with that statement.


You are no longer arguing that this murder was not partly caused by systemic racism because these cops would have been aware of how systemic racism and would have tried to avoid it.

Now you seem to be arguing that these cops are too stupid to know what systemic racism is and how it works in policing, despite being black cops.

What makes you think these cops beat Tyre Nichols because they thought they could get away with it yet at the same time they got carried away and did not think about the possible consequences of their actions?

Don't you think that alone shows they lack foresight, thereby leaving the rest of your theory groundless?


You do not seem to be answering the question:

Why do you think these murderer cops are not aware of how systemic racism works?

You are the one defending unions here. Police unions are not the only ones who do this kind of thing.

We even saw the same happened with some killer nurses in Canada, a couple of years ago. And one thing we saw is that the nurse unions were quite similar to police unions, not just in defending their affiliates but also in pushing for collective agreements that would bar employers from reporting misconduct when other providers would request references of workers fired for such misconduct. This is something police unions also do, and lets police officers get away with misconduct in one department by simply getting a job elsewhere.

Why is it only bad when police unions do it?


Only police unions do this. No nurse union ever helped a known murderer.
#15264027
Pants-of-dog wrote:No, it is not.


Yes it is. If they simply got carried away without thinking about the consequences then this incident is independent of systemic racism.

Pants-of-dog wrote:You are no longer arguing that this murder was not partly caused by systemic racism because these cops would have been aware of how systemic racism and would have tried to avoid it.

Now you seem to be arguing that these cops are too stupid to know what systemic racism is and how it works in policing, despite being black cops.


No. What I'm arguing is that you have no idea about what they think regarding policing and race.

Not that you're in a position to say what should African Americans believe or vote for, don't you think?

Even if they do believe police is systemically racist, you have also not shown they beat Tyre Nichols because they thought they could get away with it since he's Black.

Pants-of-dog wrote:You do not seem to be answering the question:

Why do you think these murderer cops are not aware of how systemic racism works?


I don't know if they are.

Why do you think they are, and that they beat Tyre Nichols because of this yet at the same time you say they did not premeditate their crime?

Pants-of-dog wrote:Only police unions do this. No nurse union ever helped a known murderer.


Yes, I recall you went through this tangent as well. And they covered for her even when there were serious suspicions about the multiple deaths her member had caused, and did their best to obstruct the investigations until the justice system and law enforcement got involved.

How is it any different from what cops and their unions do, until a different law enforcement agency and the justice system get involved?
#15264030
wat0n wrote:If they simply got carried away without thinking about the consequences then this incident is independent of systemic racism.


Not that I can see.

How so?

No. What I'm arguing is that you have no idea about what they think regarding policing and race.


No, that is your usual tactic of shifting the burden onto me as a way of deflecting from supporting your claims.

And we do know something of their mindset by watching their behaviour on the bodycam footage.

They were fustbumping and congratulating each other and openly making up lies about the incident.

How does this behaviour reconcile with your argument that they knew nothing of systemic racism and would have therefore assumed that the cops and prosecutors would have held them accountable?

Not that you're in a position to say what should African Americans believe or vote for, don't you think?

Even if they do believe police is systemically racist, you have also not shown they beat Tyre Nichols because they thought they could get away with it since he's Black.


And you are arguing that they thought they could get away with it because they are stupid and do not plan things.

Tell me, has a Memphis cop ever been convicted of killing a black man before this?

If not, then it is reasonable that the murdering cops thought they would get away with it as they have before.

I don't know if they are.

Why do you think they are, and that they beat Tyre Nichols because of this yet at the same time you say they did not premeditate their crime?


If you do not know, then why are you arguing that systemic racism has nothing to do with this?

Can we then assume that you have no evidence for the claim that they were not aware of or did not take systemic racism into consideration?

Yes, I recall you went through this tangent as well. And they covered for her even when there were serious suspicions about the multiple deaths her member had caused, and did their best to obstruct the investigations until the justice system and law enforcement got involved.

How is it any different from what cops and their unions do, until a different law enforcement agency and the justice system get involved?


No, none of these accusations seem to be true.

Stop trying to throw muck at innocent people in order to defend cops who support murder. Your support of police murder culture is morally questionable, no matter how unsurprising it is.
#15264038
Pants-of-dog wrote:Not that I can see.

How so?


Whether they'd be prosecuted or not did not factor into their decision, because they didn't think about they were doing since they did not premeditate this deadly beating. As you said, they got carried over which means by definition they did not consider context.

Pants-of-dog wrote:No, that is your usual tactic of shifting the burden onto me as a way of deflecting from supporting your claims.


You mean like when you want one to prove a negative? I can't think of any clearer attempt to shift the burden of proof than that.

And no, proving something is impossible is not the same as proving a negative, like you've tried to claim in the past.

It is up to you: Please show these cops beat Tyre Nichols up thinking they'd get away with it because of systemic racism.

Note that if they don't believe in systemic racism in policing, then your claim is false. And if they do, you still have to show they beat Tyre Nichols up because they thought they could get away with it while at the same time explaining how is it that the beating was not premeditated.

Pants-of-dog wrote:And we do know something of their mindset by watching their behaviour on the bodycam footage.

They were fustbumping and congratulating each other and openly making up lies about the incident.

How does this behaviour reconcile with your argument that they knew nothing of systemic racism and would have therefore assumed that the cops and prosecutors would have held them accountable?


Again, my argument is simply that they did not think about systemic racism at all, because they did not premeditate the beating. Hence, no, this incident did not happen because of systemic racism.

Even worse, the fact that they tried to make an excuse up should be seen as evidence that they did not feel they could just get away with the beating. And the fact that it was so poorly executed further supports the idea they did not have any actual plan or foresight.

Pants-of-dog wrote:And you are arguing that they thought they could get away with it because they are stupid and do not plan things.

Tell me, has a Memphis cop ever been convicted of killing a black man before this?

If not, then it is reasonable that the murdering cops thought they would get away with it as they have before.


Oh so they did premeditate the beating, then. Did they? After all, if they are thinking whether other cops have ever been convicted for killing Black people in the past to decide if they want to beat someone, then there is definitely premeditation here.

Oh but you said there's not. And no one has said so either, it also cannot be inferred from the available evidence.

What I can see is that the cops got angry that Tyre Nichols tried to flee, after being caught by surprise by the cops. Their murderous reaction, of course, is obviously unjustified and I expect them to be punished since the evidence does show beyond reasonable doubt they were guilty of this deadly beating and TN law is quite clear that they committed a second degree murder.

I actually find it interesting that you now believe in the deterrence theory of crime prevention, i.e. the idea that the risk of punishment deters crime. You were arguing against it quite recently when it came to shoplifting, but you now believe it when it comes to crimes committed by police. What gives?

Pants-of-dog wrote:If you do not know, then why are you arguing that systemic racism has nothing to do with this?


Because no one has established premeditation and also because it seems unlikely the cops themselves were thinking about race.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Can we then assume that you have no evidence for the claim that they were not aware of or did not take systemic racism into consideration?


Can we assume you don't have evidence when you say they did, even more so when no one has established premeditation?

Pants-of-dog wrote:No, none of these accusations seem to be true.


That much was established in the inquiry done on that Canadian killer nurse. Yes, the union she was a member of tried to stop the investigation.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Stop trying to throw muck at innocent people in order to defend cops who support murder.


I'm not defending anyone. I'm simply illustrating your hypocrisy regarding public sector unions: Police unions' culture of secrecy is evil yet other public sector unions' (like nurse unions') culture of secrecy is OK, even when it comes to investigating potential murders.

Police unions extracting clauses from their departments like that they shall not give a negative referral to members who seek jobs elsewhere is evil and an example of the cop culture of secrecy, but it's not when nurses do it.

Pants-of-dog wrote: Your support of police murder culture is morally questionable, no matter how unsurprising it is.


I'm not supporting any murder culture, on the contrary, I'm getting exactly at the culture of secrecy that enables that and other forms of misconduct within government. But I'm not a hypocrite when it comes to opposing that kind of thing, I want transparency in the whole government and don't pretend it's only a problem when it has a racist undertone.

But you have, in fact, done so when it comes to policing elsewhere - like in Cuba:

Pants-of-dog wrote:And how should Cuba do that, in terms of dealing with the fact that a free press and a multiparty system will be used by the CIA to destroy Cuban sovereignty?


So who do you think you are to lecture others? Is this disregard for democracy why you - the all-knowing Marxist white Chilean exile in Canada - want to tell the African American community of Memphis how to vote? Why do you justify and support the murder of democracy activists in Cuba? Maybe you could stop doing so before pretending to be a beacon of morality.
#15264052
wat0n wrote:Whether they'd be prosecuted or not did not factor into their decision, because they didn't think about they were doing since they did not premeditate this deadly beating. As you said, they got carried over which means by definition they did not consider context.


No, I was asking you how systemic racism requires premeditation. That is something you have not explained yet.

Again, my argument is simply that they did not think about systemic racism at all, because they did not premeditate the beating. Hence, no, this incident did not happen because of systemic racism.


Again, you are not explaining why they allowed bodycams to record them congratulating themselves and coming up with obvious lies.

If you wish to keep ignoring this question, we can chalk this up as an observed fact that seems to contradict your argument.

Even worse, the fact that they tried to make an excuse up should be seen as evidence that they did not feel they could just get away with the beating. And the fact that it was so poorly executed further supports the idea they did not have any actual plan or foresight.


Your explanation as to why they allowed themselves to be recorded making up a feeble excuse is also very weak; i.e. your claim that they are too stupid and gave away their entire plan through poor planning.

Oh so they did premeditate the beating, then. Did they? After all, if they are thinking whether other cops have ever been convicted for killing Black people in the past to decide if they want to beat someone, then there is definitely premeditation here.


No, it is not.

Oh but you said there's not. And no one has said so either, it also cannot be inferred from the available evidence.

What I can see is that the cops got angry that Tyre Nichols tried to flee, after being caught by surprise by the cops. Their murderous reaction, of course, is obviously unjustified and I expect them to be punished since the evidence does show beyond reasonable doubt they were guilty of this deadly beating and TN law is quite clear that they committed a second degree murder.

I actually find it interesting that you now believe in the deterrence theory of crime prevention, i.e. the idea that the risk of punishment deters crime. You were arguing against it quite recently when it came to shoplifting, but you now believe it when it comes to crimes committed by police. What gives?


You did not answer the question.

From this, I will assume that you were unable to find any evidence of a Memphis cop ever being charged and convicted of killing a black person.

Since that is the case, they could easily have assumed they would not be charged in this case either.

In fact, if it was ingrained in them, they would not have needed to think about it at all.

Because no one has established premeditation and also because it seems unlikely the cops themselves were thinking about race.


Neither of these points contradict systemic racism.

Can we assume you don't have evidence when you say they did, even more so when no one has established premeditation?


So no evidence. Moving on.

That much was established in the inquiry done on that Canadian killer nurse. Yes, the union she was a member of tried to stop the investigation.


No, You are factually incorrect about your whataboutism.

I'm not defending anyone. I'm simply illustrating your hypocrisy regarding public sector unions: Police unions' culture of secrecy is evil yet other public sector unions' (like nurse unions') culture of secrecy is OK, even when it comes to investigating potential murders.

Police unions extracting clauses from their departments like that they shall not give a negative referral to members who seek jobs elsewhere is evil and an example of the cop culture of secrecy, but it's not when nurses do it.



I'm not supporting any murder culture, on the contrary, I'm getting exactly at the culture of secrecy that enables that and other forms of misconduct within government. But I'm not a hypocrite when it comes to opposing that kind of thing, I want transparency in the whole government and don't pretend it's only a problem when it has a racist undertone.

But you have, in fact, done so when it comes to policing elsewhere - like in Cuba:



So who do you think you are to lecture others? Is this disregard for democracy why you - the all-knowing Marxist white Chilean exile in Canada - want to tell the African American community of Memphis how to vote? Why do you justify and support the murder of democracy activists in Cuba? Maybe you could stop doing so before pretending to be a beacon of morality.


Yes, you are defending the status quo which lead to this tragic murder, and moreso, you are actively trying to discourage any analysis into this murder that would help deal with systemic racism.
#15264060
Pants-of-dog wrote:No, I was asking you how systemic racism requires premeditation. That is something you have not explained yet.


I also answered that.

I'm still waiting though, will you explain how did systemic racism cause this incident already and yet it wasn't premeditated?

Pants-of-dog wrote:Again, you are not explaining why they allowed bodycams to record them congratulating themselves and coming up with obvious lies.

If you wish to keep ignoring this question, we can chalk this up as an observed fact that seems to contradict your argument.


Also answered, they can't "disallow" bodycams. It's a requirement from their employer.

And you said it yourself, they acted without premeditation and didn't consider the foreseeable consequences of their actions.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Your explanation as to why they allowed themselves to be recorded making up a feeble excuse is also very weak; i.e. your claim that they are too stupid and gave away their entire plan through poor planning.


Oh so it was now planned? Planning implies premeditation.

You also seem to believe people never act impulsively, without thinking, ever.

Pants-of-dog wrote:No, it is not.


Yes it is

Premeditation
Primary tabs
When an individual contemplates, for any length of time, undertaking an activity and then subsequently takes the action.


Did the cops do this? Yes or no?

Pants-of-dog wrote:You did not answer the question.

From this, I will assume that you were unable to find any evidence of a Memphis cop ever being charged and convicted of killing a black person.

Since that is the case, they could easily have assumed they would not be charged in this case either.


To say the cops thought about the possible consequences of their actions like this implies premeditation yet at the same time you claim they did not. You are not making too much sense here.

I also recall you tried to go through this line of thinking to say one would then never rationally expect Derek Chauvin to be convicted for the murder of George Floyd. How did that work out again?

Pants-of-dog wrote:In fact, if it was ingrained in them, they would not have needed to think about it at all.


Oh boy, I would not try to make a case that anti-Black violence is somehow "ingrained" into Black people. Judging by the department's reaction, it doesn't seem to have been according to policy so I wouldn't think this was ingrained by their employer. The fact that the perpetrators are African Americans themselves would also make it very hard for any PD to ingrain a preference for using violence against other African Americans over using it against other people. Now, if what you want to claim is that the department ingrained violence against anyone deemed "unruly" on its force then that would also include White people, and thus the problem would not be racism but of another kind.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Neither of these points contradict systemic racism.


Yes, they do contradict systemic racism being the cause of this incident.

Pants-of-dog wrote:So no evidence. Moving on.


Yes, you have no evidence for your claims here. Are you moving on because you concede that?

Pants-of-dog wrote:No, You are factually incorrect about your whataboutism.


No, I'm not. Allow me to remind you the union had indeed stood by her and made any wrongdoing inquiry hard to carry out, even though the circumstances did justify doing one - as we discussed back then.

It is not whataboutism to say both nurse and cop unions have their own culture of secrecy. You seem to believe that is somehow a defense of police unions, when in reality I'm pointing out it's just part of a pattern by other public sector unions, and shows they care about their members and not society at large. Makes sense, since unions do not exist to advance the public interest.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, you are defending the status quo which lead to this tragic murder, and moreso, you are actively trying to discourage any analysis into this murder that would help deal with systemic racism.


On the contrary, I'm encouraging thinking about other reasons for these incidents that don't simply reduce themselves to systemic racism.

Note that even if your narrative about systemic racism is correct, unions would be one such actor that enables its continuation. In fact, at this point of history they'd probably be the most important one.

And if you believe systemic racism exists in government in general, if you think it's not limited to policing, then it's natural to look into the role of public sector unions in general and not somehow believe only police unions are part of the problem.

At last, why do you act as if you had some sort of moral high ground when you support the brutality of the communist dictatorship in Cuba?
#15264063
wat0n wrote:I also answered that.


No, I do not believe you have.

Please repeat your explanation or provide a link to the post where you described it.

Thank you.

Specifically, please explain how systemic racism requires premeditation.
#15264064
Pants-of-dog wrote:No, I do not believe you have.

Please repeat your explanation or provide a link to the post where you described it.

Thank you.

Specifically, please explain how systemic racism requires premeditation.


I'm not going to bother repeating myself once again, even more so when you have not clearly shown how is it that systemic racism caused this incident. Will you do it?
#15264067
wat0n wrote:I'm not going to bother repeating myself once again, even more so when you have not clearly shown how is it that systemic racism caused this incident. Will you do it?


Then please do not repeat yourself.

Please simply provide a link where you clarify exactly how systemic racism requires premeditation.

If not, please answer the following question with a clear yes or no:

Do you think systemic racism only happens when the individual committing systemic racism thinks about race?
#15264068
Pants-of-dog wrote:Then please do not repeat yourself.

Please simply provide a link where you clarify exactly how systemic racism requires premeditation.

If not, please answer the following question with a clear yes or no:

Do you think systemic racism only happens when the individual committing systemic racism thinks about race?


Let's assume I say no. So what? How did systemic racism caused this incident?
#15264069
@wat0n

If you think systemic racism occurs even when the agents of that racism do not think about race, them it is possible this murder was also an episode of systemic racism even if the murderers did not think about race.
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