Exit Brexit, Part Deux - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15264247
ingliz wrote:I am not English.

As long as your failing country doesn't collapse entirely before I pop off this mortal coil - I need it to keep paying me my pension under the EU Brexit protocol - I couldn't give a toss about the UK.



Well, if it is to fall entirely, then I wish you to be one of the first to get drown.

What a leech and traitor.
#15264249
late wrote:
It was, and is, a failure. The Commonwealth will continue to lose countries as the economy slips further and further behind the rest of the developed world..

What's more, it was a scam, the false pretense undermines your claim that it was democratic.

We're out.
Therefore the leave vote was a success.

Instead of considering that there are multiple ways of being out, your side tried to frustrate democracy, and in so doing inadvertently inspired Trump and the 6th Jan riots.

What should have happened and I'm going back to 2016 is a cross party consensus that the country voted to leave, so the vote must be honoured.
BUT what it did not do, was vote on how.

So a follow on referendum should have happened before May triggered article 50.
A referendum to shape how we left, rather than if.

And you should have had the options of closer relations with the EU in that referendum.
Just as we Brexiteers should have had more options too.
#15264250
ingliz wrote:@vinnydell

I am not English.

As long as your failing country doesn't collapse entirely before I pop off this mortal coil - I need it to keep paying me my pension under the EU Brexit protocol - I couldn't give a toss about the UK.


:)


Ingliz, how come you sound like my husband discussing his social security check and pension from the USA? Pay me my money and go pop off....Lol.

We still have to pay taxes from our earnings and help the US government waste the money on shit programs and war problems from the past. They never learn.



Tal vez, leyenda fue,

I feel the love you feel for the British government....Tory greatness, and their shining example of selfless leadership....service to their country.....

LOVE. Amor. :lol: :lol:
By Rich
#15264253
vinnydell wrote:so the vote must be honoured.

The result should be treated with total and utter contempt, or put it another way, it should be treated with the same respect that the Brexiteers would have treated the result if it had gone 52 - 48 against them. These Brexiteers are fascists seeking to over throw the supremacy of Parliament.
#15264257
@Patrickov

traitor

How does that work when the UK is not my country?

leech

It's not leeching.

I have over ten years of National Insurance stamps necessary to qualify for a UK state pension. Also, in 1996, the UK signed a more generous version of the 1956 bilateral social security agreement with Malta that was rolled over into the EU Social Chapter when we joined in 2004 (with the proviso that if any benefits offered were better under the UK bilateral, the bilateral wins).


:)
#15264262
Beren wrote:For the British it's hard to see and treat even the French (frogs) and the Germans (cabbages) or any other Europeans as equal human beings, although the British Isles were colonised and civilised by Latins from Italy (who also founded their capital as Londinium), invaded by Germanic Anglo-Saxons and conquered by French-speaking Normans from the Continent. Despite all that and their permanent decline since at least the middle of the last century they still pretend to be superior and unique (although they might be right about their uniqueness indeed) people having a special relationship with their overlords rather than facing geopolitical and economic realities, and indulge in such ideas as reviving the British Commonwealth while ruling the waves and waiving the rules again or becoming a Singapore-on-Thames at the cost of the EU. I wonder if what illusions fuelling Puexit Puerto Ricans have, they should visit the UK and discuss them with Brexiteers perhaps in order to get some know-how from real experts.


You think it is easy buying plane tickets on a retired person's budget?

The pretending to be superior is the issue. They can't seem to be able to be what? Humble?

The regular people of any nation tend to not put on any airs and just try to solve a problem in a very pragmatic way and usually enlisting the help of others to accomplish it. It is a fairly effective method.

I think what holds up progress in most societies Beren are people who just don't care and don't get involved. It requires effort and energy and work. But, if you don't tackle the problem it does not go away magically. Again, people believing in the power of MYTH. The myth of past glories and past bullshit that never works over the long haul because they can't muster the equality and love necessary to realize?

We are all just passing through this world we live in. We are going to die and how we love and interact with one another is the only real legacy we leave behind.

I once joked, yes, let us go for a Boricua EMPIRE. Invade half the world, force our point of view on everyone, declare ourselves the all knowing group and shut up the ones who dissent. Steal the land from others that have lived on that piece of rock or island or x, y and z place, and impose our will, extract money and labor from them with threats of retaliation.....how DARE you think you can differ from the Boricua EMPIRE?

Go over there Beren, you memorize that Despacito song by tonight and you better dance it as well as Luis Fonsi or your going to the firing squad!

Imperialism is fucking ridiculous. I still do not see why people don't understand that and continue to believe in MYTH. Like the myth that Royalty by inheritance is the best way to organize socioeconomic classes, and royal titles of shit....Duchess of Sussex? The woman was born in California to a Black mother who's ancestors were slaves in the South at some point and a white working class guy who worked on movie sets...the Royal lineage. All that class conscious shit is ridiculous.
#15264269
Telegraph wrote:Volodymyr Zelensky’s visit is a major coup for Brexit Britain
In choosing the UK over the EU for his second overseas visit, Ukraine’s leader has shown this country must still be taken seriously

When news of Volodymyr Zelensky’s secret trip to Britain broke, you could almost hear the lips pursing in irritation in Europe if you closed your eyes and listened hard enough.

In Brussels, officials have been boasting that the Ukrainian president would, of course, choose the EU for his second overseas visit after the US.

It is, after all, an economic superpower that was ready one day to welcome Ukraine into the fold of its 477 million-strong trading bloc.

Instead, Mr Zelensky picked the UK and Rishi Sunak.

By doing so, he placed a big feather in the cap of Global Britain.

He also triggered a huge collective frown as European diplomats and officials got the news on their gleaming smartphones on Wednesday morning.

Ukraine’s president is expected to address the gathered leaders of the remaining 27 EU member states at a summit in the Belgian capital on Thursday after a visit to Paris on Wednesday evening.

Those top-secret plans were leaked by loose-lipped MEPs in the European Parliament earlier this week.

The EU’s institutions were still indulging in the blame game when they found out that Mr Zelensky was in London.

In Paris, Emmanuel Macron’s officials put a brave face on it when journalists asked if it was a diplomatic coup for Brexit Britain.

“It’s a very good thing that he is going to the UK,” a discomforted Elysée said before adding that the French president had spoken to Mr Zelensky just last week.

“We have also just welcomed Ukraine’s defence minister, Oleksiy Reznikov, to talk about our support in terms of equipment for Ukraine. So all that is positive.”

Mr Macron, like all of Europe’s major leaders, has been competing to show the strength of his support for Ukraine.

The ardently pro-EU president will be smarting but he has only himself, and his allies to blame.

France and Germany were slow to recognise the Russian threat to Ukraine, unlike the US and UK.

French and German efforts at diplomacy with Vladimir Putin failed, and the perception grew that Paris and Berlin did not back Kyiv to the hilt.

Mr Macron has repaired much of that damage since. But Olaf Scholz, despite promising huge sums and weapons to Ukraine, has earned a reputation for dithering over the war.

Mr Zelensky may well have chosen to visit Britain first for security or logistical reasons but, in diplomacy, the pecking order matters.

Brussels will point to the European Commission and European Council president’s visit to Kyiv last week to spare EU blushes.

However, it is undeniably significant that the UK was chosen ahead of 27 gathered heads of state and government, including the French president and German chancellor.

Onwards and upwards from Brexit
British foreign policy is finally moving beyond Brexit after years of being consumed by it.

The UK has worked well with the EU to co-ordinate sanctions on Moscow and relations with the bloc, and France in particular, have improved.

A deal on the Northern Ireland Protocol should bring further closure on the painful years of the Brexit negotiations.

Britain has carved out a leadership role in the war in Ukraine, despite predictions its global standing would wane after leaving the EU.

Poland and the Baltic nations see London as a key ally in holding a tough line against Putin in Nato, where British influence is still strong.

Mr Zelensky’s visit proves that Britain really has not left Europe, even if it has left the EU.

Britain was close to being an international laughing stock after jettisoning a string of prime ministers and tanking the economy.

But Mr Zelensky has shown that he, and Ukraine, still takes this country seriously.



Zelensky is fighting a war for the right to be in the EU and Britain is insulting his nation by turning his visit into an anti-EU propaganda exercise thus trashing the cause of his fight and spitting on the Ukrainian dead who have laid down their lives for the right to be in the EU.

Moreover as we all know pro-Brexit Putin would have never attempted this war had the UK not fractured the EU and engaged in open hostilities(going as far as having warships mobilised) with Paris for no reason whatsoever and without anyone in Paris doing something to the UK.

Last but not least Zelensky used the UK to put pressure on the far more important EU on whose name he is actually fighting the war for.

Germany's castration is neither hers nor the EU's fault either.
#15264277
ingliz wrote:@Patrickov


How does that work when the UK is not my country?


It's not leeching.

I have over ten years of National Insurance stamps necessary to qualify for a UK state pension. Also, in 1996, the UK signed a more generous version of the 1956 bilateral social security agreement with Malta that was rolled over into the EU Social Chapter when we joined in 2004 (with the proviso that if any benefits offered were better under the UK bilateral, the bilateral wins).


:)


You benefit from the British yet you are eager to see it fall. How is it not leeching and treachery?
#15264278
vinnydell wrote:You're ignoring the social and democratic aspects.
This wasn't a simple economic decision it was a democratic, political decision to be independent.


Sure at the end of the day when the referendum was held it was. The problem is that nobody really cared or wanted to waste money to loose political clout so it ended like it ended. This even predates the Brexit discussion back to the 90s, 2000s and so on. European Union was a wonderful scapegoat and it was trendy to blame the "Other" for UKs economic problems and vows. Now you get what you get so to speak. EU agreed not to advertise on its own behalf while UK politicians for decades found it counterproductive for their personal political interests. Don't take it like a conspiracy theory though, this wasn't organised or premedetated so to speak. It just happens because of personal interest or gain for the people in power.
#15264283
noemon wrote:

Zelensky is fighting a war for the right to be in the EU and Britain is insulting his nation by turning his visit into an anti-EU propaganda exercise thus trashing the cause of his fight and spitting on the Ukrainian dead who have laid down their lives for the right to be in the EU.

Moreover as we all know pro-Brexit Putin would have never attempted this war had the UK not fractured the EU and engaged in open hostilities(going as far as having warships mobilised) with Paris for no reason whatsoever and without anyone in Paris doing something to the UK.

Last but not least Zelensky used the UK to put pressure on the far more important EU on whose name he is actually fighting the war for.

Germany's castration is neither hers nor the EU's fault either.


No, Ukraine is fighting a war because Russia invaded it with soldiers and mercenaries and started slaughtering civilians.

We are supporting Ukraine.

If they want to make the mistake of joining the EU, that is their democratic right.

I support them 100% whatever they wish to do and I have given money to the Ukrainians in their fight against the invaders.
#15264285
Rich wrote:The result should be treated with total and utter contempt, or put it another way, it should be treated with the same respect that the Brexiteers would have treated the result if it had gone 52 - 48 against them. These Brexiteers are fascists seeking to over throw the supremacy of Parliament.

Spoken like a Trumpian fascist.

I would have accepted defeat had it gone the other way.

Get over it.
By Rich
#15264286
vinnydell wrote:Get over it.

:lol: Its the Brexit cry babies that are going to have to get over it. Let me explain how democracy works. We have a general election, a party loses, it doesn't get in to government. Does it just accept that party in power for the next 50 years, does it just meekly help to implement the governments policies for the next 50 years, of course not, it immediately sets about undermining the government, undermining their policies and seeking to get back in power at the earliest opportunity.

Brexiteers lied. They lied big time. They also cheated on campaign expenses and used data illegally. I'm not particularly important politically, but I will do anything I can to make Brexit fail, in the same way that Brexiteers worked tirelessly for decades to make Britain's membership a failure.
User avatar
By noemon
#15264300
vinnydell wrote:No, Ukraine is fighting a war because Russia invaded it with soldiers and mercenaries and started slaughtering civilians.


Russia invaded Ukraine to prevent it from joining the EU, the least you can do is respect the Ukrainian dead and not use their name for your anti-EU Brexit propaganda because you are just spitting on their graves.
#15264304
noemon wrote:Russia invaded Ukraine to prevent it from joining the EU, the least you can do is respect the Ukrainian dead and not use their name for your anti-EU Brexit propaganda because you are just spitting on their graves.


Sorry I think vinnydell, if he keeps to his words on his support of Ukraine, is more honest.

It's a stretch to suggest Ukrainians who fell are universal EU advocates. One way or another, they only want a life free from Eastern (Russian mainly, and to a lesser extent Chinese and Islamic) Imperialism.

The most important thing now is to crush Russia, and if necessary, massacre all the wrongdoers. Things like EU membership can be settled later (unless you suggest admitting Ukraine to EU will mean immediate destruction of the Russian national war machine)
#15264305
vinnydell wrote:Not a fan of EU policies at all.
Here's another EU policy I oppose:
https://food.ec.europa.eu/safety/novel- ... el-food_en

They approved insects for the plate. Urgh.


I see you are easily swayed by propaganda. What is wrong with eating insects? People have done it through history since time immemorial. We eat a lot of discusting stuff come to think of it which we learned to make in to more delicious version of itself. The frogs, shrimps, dogs, Asian delicacies and so on also fall under that category. If my memory serves me right, Vikings used to consume them plenty both for spiritual rituals and as food if we talk about Europe.
User avatar
By ingliz
#15264306
Patrickov wrote:You benefit from the British

They benefited from me. I paid my taxes, spent my wages in the local economy, and doubtless added some minuscule amount to their GDP - I fulfilled my contract.

Why shouldn't they honour theirs?

And, the relationship being purely contractual if mutually beneficial, why should I feel the need to lick their arse?


:)
#15264311
JohnRawls wrote:
I see you are easily swayed by propaganda. What is wrong with eating insects? People have done it through history since time immemorial. We eat a lot of discusting stuff come to think of it which we learned to make in to more delicious version of itself. The frogs, shrimps, dogs, Asian delicacies and so on also fall under that category. If my memory serves me right, Vikings used to consume them plenty both for spiritual rituals and as food if we talk about Europe.


Dietary tolerance requires digestive enzymes.
Do you know if you have the right digestive enzymes ?
What hygiene measures are there ?
What diseases do the insects carry and what temperature is needed to kill those diseases ?

Dangerous position.

Fortunately consumers can say no and refuse to buy.

But the Commission, they are lobbied by big businesses, not the common voters.
They are immune to voters as they are not elected and cannot be sacked by ballot.

When we had a Commissioner, our Commissioners were chosen by the parties who lost the respective EU elections.

We had a situation where we had a majority of pro local government pro small government MEPs with a pro big EU government Commissioner.

And back in the day when we were members, only a fraction of the population (including remainers) felt that voting in EU elections made any difference whatsoever.
Turnout in those elections never got above 40 percent.

2014 turnout: 35.6%
2009 turnout: 34.7%
2004 turnout: 38.5%
1999 turnout: 24%
1994 turnout: 36.4%
Maastricht Treaty signed 1992 came into effect 1993 creating the EU.

For the whole time we were in, up until the referendum, we were badly represented at EU level and constantly ignored.
So, in 2016 I voted leave for a more democratic future.

And then remoaners tried sabotaging the vote just like Trumpians in the USA.
They tried to steal the result and culminated in losing Labour 60 seats and giving the Tories an enormous majority.

Engage brain next time.
#15264314
Patrickov wrote:
Sorry I think vinnydell, if he keeps to his words on his support of Ukraine, is more honest.

It's a stretch to suggest Ukrainians who fell are universal EU advocates. One way or another, they only want a life free from Eastern (Russian mainly, and to a lesser extent Chinese and Islamic) Imperialism.

The most important thing now is to crush Russia, and if necessary, massacre all the wrongdoers. Things like EU membership can be settled later (unless you suggest admitting Ukraine to EU will mean immediate destruction of the Russian national war machine)


Thank you, well said!!

If when the time comes, Ukraine want to be in the EU and vote to be in it, fair play to them. I wish them well whatever happens. It's their country and their money and they should have the right to do whatever they choose.

And one day in our future, probably 2036, we may need to revisit the question, for the sake of democracy and have another vote.

Treaty change is coming in the EU soon, our vote to leave may have influenced how they change.

When the time is right, we should look at what they have become and assess.
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