[Wellsy]

Main points
- China is not a military threat to Australia or the US. To lead any significant military force across the ocean would be readily detected and destroyed, and they can’t compete against the US military significantly far beyond itself.

- US intelligence intelligence itself states that China’s interests are in its periphery and not wanting the US rolling around there. Basically not on it’s coast.

- Australia lacks an independent foreign policy and has increasingly subjected itself to US interests over the years with allowing based and having subs nuclear energy and systems dependent on the US.

- Australia did a dipshit move buying 3 nuclear subs because of a hawkish spook Andrew Shearer.
Spat in France’s Face, got 3 massive subs that are detectable based purely on size which cannot patrol Australian shallow coast rather than fork out for the usual smaller subs that patrolled where a third of which could amount to 15 actively patrolling. Basically we have purchased in a diplomatically fucked up manner, offensive submarines that cannot function as effectively in the defense of Australia but to be in the South of China. Basically the defense of Australia as a policy was thwarted in wasting resources on offensive subs that if put into action will most definitely be detected and sunk and compromise Australia’s diplomatic relations with China because the US doesn’t like an economically competitive state.

-Australia’s military defense should focus on the Indonesian archipelago and have close ties with Indonesia due to a shared geopolitical interest in defending the archipelago of which only China could pose a major threat, although Keating doesn’t suspect such a threat to be present but a matter of prudent defense policy.

- China’s interest isn’t in the east or south beyond it’s coasts but west with the -Stan countries which it can have great influence upon with ambitious infrastructure projects to connect China westward. China has a lot of places to go west and the US has no significant land mass in Asia to project from, East Asia is outside it’s direct influence. It can’t be a hegemony of the entire world while based in the Atlantic.

[ness31]

I don’t think we bought the subs for the sake of the subs alone; rather for the technology (nuclear) that comes with it.

Unless of course we’ve got all that stuff already…then my thought is just another brain fart.

[Potemkin]

I don’t think we bought the subs for the sake of the subs alone; rather for the technology (nuclear) that comes with it.

Unless of course we’ve got all that stuff already…then my thought is just another brain fart.

No, the subs were bought for the fact that they were subs. But, as Keating pointed out, buying them made no sense in terms of Australia’s defence strategy - buying them pissed off Australia’s allies and deploying them will piss off China, with no strategic defence benefit. In other words, this was an epic fuckup by somebody who wanted to look hawkish, but who didn’t have a functioning brain.

[ness31]

I guess we can’t get anything right hey?

So we’ve bought submarines that are too big for domestic use? Maybe we can continue to use our old ones for that and use the big ‘fuck off’ ones for international waters?

I dislike Albanese, but seriously, damned if one does, damned if one doesn’t. What exactly was he meant to hold out for? Everyone’s making it seem like we had options. Is everyone else privy to all the other subs in the fucking brochure?

[Tainari88]

No, the subs were bought for the fact that they were subs. But, as Keating pointed out, buying them made no sense in terms of Australia’s defence strategy - buying them pissed off Australia’s allies and deploying them will piss off China, with no strategic defence benefit. In other words, this was an epic fuckup by somebody who wanted to look hawkish, but who didn’t have a functioning brain.

You mean like most people in charge of buying nuclear weapons? Where it doesn't occur to them that hey, this technology could wind up killing millions of people all over the world or maybe billions. Many of whom never made the decisions to enter into a war--maybe we should consider a movement to get rid of the threat. I want my children and grandchildren to live into the next century and be rational and care about the human race. This war stuff is not rational. I got to change the narrative.

All these people are crazy basically.

[Wellsy]

I guess we can’t get anything right hey?

So we’ve bought submarines that are too big for domestic use? Maybe we can continue to use our old ones for that and use the big ‘fuck off’ ones for international waters?

I dislike Albanese, but seriously, damned if one does, damned if one doesn’t. What exactly was he meant to hold out for? Everyone’s making it seem like we had options. Is everyone else privy to all the other subs in the fucking brochure?

Some have said it has been like a White Elephant for the current federal government because it would’ve been messy to go back kn the subs now.
At the same time the consequences of pursuing this regardless should also not be view as a sunk cost fallacy, that simply because someone did something costly that we have to be committed.
Because the result of just getting expensive subs blown up by China should they ever enter the shallow waters surrounding them means a lot of bad outcomes all for nought.

The previous government really left a shit show and we got a media rattling the saber at China based on nothing sensible. Talk of land invasion which is so untenable as to be mythical. Basically ramping up fears to cozy up with the US which reeks of the same ass kissing as we did for the British. Our actual treaty with the US doesn’t compel to bend so ass over backwards for the US but we’ve let their military bases pop up in the US, we’re now running subs that are purely for their interests and largely to be dictated by them. And think of the thousands of kms of coast line we have to defend. 3 subs due in 10 years and now it retarded. That can do shit for Australia and I swear the cunts who made this sort of deal as our current subs are about to be out of commission because they’re so old is going to actually not have improved defense but leave us more vulnerable while trying to poke China in the eye. I don’t even see the self interest except for arms dealers and those in bed with them because its bloody sideways as far as I can see.

Penny Wong, Richard Marles and such have been critical of Keating’s usually brash criticism of them but I do think his geopolitical sense is still keen for an old fart as he’s harped on about it for decades.
Most I’ve heard in the media is that Keating’s views are outdated but I don’t really see points being properly rebuked. Even the journalists all stumble over the same point assuming that China is a threat to Australia was we hold the massive amount of resources they need for building their cities and urbanizing China. It is way too costly for them to try to take it from force and we’re inching closer to shooting ourselves in the foot because our trade of minerals is significantly propping up our countries wealth so that we’re not a totally isolated shithole.

I worry for the future Australian economy as the CSIRO has lost funding and universities got buggered for funding and we’re having a brain drain of the brightest we have.
Losing out on technological innovation to be stuck with the current rich pricks and their brown noser pollies who can’t stand on two lega for Australian interests. Even our investment in sustainable energy makes us dependent on others.
What this video shows me is that Keating is still his prickish self but he has always been a smart prick, he’s a fighter for his ideas and he has big ones.

I would‘ve liked to see more digging into his view about China, the assumptions rather than the weak “China is already a threat” because of tarriffs on our commodities after shit talking them. He seems to view China empathetically as another state actor rather than narrowly from fear. The rise of the now world’s biggest navy and such is seen as threatening for an up and coming state which cannot be tolerated yet there would be no concern for any other state. It does seem to boil down to a fear of a country to compete with US hegemony than anything else, and Keating makes a good case for this point with even the US stating China wants to secure its borders.
And I’m glad he ripped into those journailists because our media is one giant turd, even the ABC’s been run into the ground again.
You can’t keep the bastards honest if you aren’t holding the truth to them. Which is why the most interesting and provocative chap is that friendlyjordies who brings sort of shit talking entertainment to issues that lack significant coverage otherwise. And he is definitely labor biased but i would say for good reason even as they can be incompetent but do still seem to believe in public service and governance.

[Tainari88]

Some have said it has been like a White Elephant for the current federal government because it would’ve been messy to go back kn the subs now.
At the same time the consequences of pursuing this regardless should also not be view as a sunk cost fallacy, that simply because someone did something costly that we have to be committed.
Because the result of just getting expensive subs blown up by China should they ever enter the shallow waters surrounding them means its a lot of bad outcomes all for nought.
The previous government really left a shit show and we got a media rattling the saber at China based on nothing sensible. Basically ramping up fears to cozy up with the US which reeks of the same ass kissing as we did for the British. Our actual treaty with the US doesn’t compel to bend so ass over backwards for the US but we’ve let their military bases pop up in the US, we’re now running subs that are purely for their interests and seemingly not for our own.

Penny Wong, Richard Marles and such have been critical of Keating’s usually brash criticism of them but I do think his geopolitical sense is still keen for an old fart as he’s harped on about it for decades.
Most I’ve heard in the media is that Keating’s views are outdated but I don’t really see points being properly rebuked. Even the journalists all stumble over the same point assuming that China is a threat to Australia was we hold the massive amount of resources they need for building their cities and urbanizing China. It is way too costly for them to try to take it from force and we’re inching closer to shooting ourselves in the foot because our trade of minerals is significantly propping up our countries wealth so that we’re not a totally isolated shithole.

I worry for the future Australian economy as the CSIRO has lost funding and universities got buggered for funding and we’re having a beain drain of the current bests we have. Losing out on technological innovation to be stuck with the current rich pricks and their brown noser pollies who can’t stand on two lega for Australian interests.
What this video shows me is that Keating is still his prickish self but he has always been a smart prick, he’s a fighter for his ideas and he has big ones.

I would‘ve liked to see more digging into his view about China, the assumptions rather than the weak China is already a threat because of tarriffs on our commodities after shit talking them. He seems to view China empathetically as another state actor rather than narrowly from fear. The rise if the now world’s biggest navy and such is seen as threatening for an up and coming state which cannot be tolerated yet there would be no concern for any other state. It does seem to boil down to a fear of a country to compete with US hegemony than anything else, and Keating makes a good case for this point. And I’m glad he ripped into those journailists because our media is one giant turd, even the ABC’s been run into the ground again.

Australia seems to be very anti-Asia in general. I find that strange since they live near them and it would be in their best interests to cultivate many ties with the rest of Asia. Especially the big economies in the region like Japan, the Philippines, China, South Korea, Vietnam, India and Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, and every other Asian nation.

Aussies got some interesting statistics Wellsy. They live on the periphery of their nation. The center and a big part of the entire nation is just not inhabited or developed. Just some major cities mostly on the coasts.

The origins of Australia is as a big English and Irish, etc penal colony from the British Isles. I really hated with a passion how they treated the Aboriginal peoples, especially the Tasmanians whom they wiped out off the face of the Earth.

Immigration has expanded its workforce and they still are short of nurses, doctors, engineers, etc. and I have seen ads from the Australian government here in Mexico trying to recruit healthcare workers from Mexico. With offers of good jobs. I get on youtube Wellsy and it says in Spanish, please come to Australia if you are educated, have degrees in the following professions, and can speak English well. We will give you a visa. You are welcome.

In the future, there is going to be fierce competition for really well-educated young adults from all over the world. It is an interesting future. More diverse and less narrow in focus. But the brain drain is going to be an issue with nations that pay really low local wages. They will be leaving for better economic opportunities.

The USA is lucky to have gotten you Wellsy. And New Mexico is too! I wish you would have fallen in love with a Puerto Rican girl instead. Lol. Puerto Rico would have loved to have had yo there too. Lol.

[Wellsy]

Australia seems to be very anti-Asia in general. I find that strange since they live near them and it would be in their best interests to cultivate many ties with the rest of Asia. Especially the big economies in the region like Japan, the Philippines, China, South Korea, Vietnam, India and Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, and every other Asian nation.

Aussies got some interesting statistics Wellsy. They live on the periphery of their nation. The center and a big part of the entire nation is just not inhabited or developed. Just some major cities mostly on the coasts.

The origins of Australia is as a big English and Irish, etc penal colony from the British Isles. I really hated with a passion how they treated the Aboriginal peoples, especially the Tasmanians whom they wiped out off the face of the Earth.

Immigration has expanded its workforce and they still are short of nurses, doctors, engineers, etc. and I have seen ads from the Australian government here in Mexico trying to recruit healthcare workers from Mexico. With offers of good jobs. I get on youtube Wellsy and it says in Spanish, please come to Australia if you are educated, have degrees in the following professions, and can speak English well. We will give you a visa. You are welcome.

In the future, there is going to be fierce competition for really well-educated young adults from all over the world. It is an interesting future. More diverse and less narrow in focus. But the brain drain is going to be an issue with nations that pay really low local wages. They will be leaving for better economic opportunities.

The USA is lucky to have gotten you Wellsy. And New Mexico is too! I wish you would have fallen in love with a Puerto Rican girl instead. Lol. Puerto Rico would have loved to have had yo there too. Lol.

Agreed. Australians don’t understand much of the Asian countries and are a bit insulated being so fsr away in a big country. Like how the USA is too big to understand itself. Someone in Florida understands very little of the ways of life in Oregon and vice versa unlike in small countries.
So they are a strange other which we can project onto. A sentiment that goes all the way back to our gold rushes with the same unrealistic fear of China or even Japan being somehow able to invade Australia. It’s just to giant a task to undertake and with too little reward. And militarily I agree with Keating that the Indonesian archipelago is where our trade routes are possibly vulnerable and could damage us in our geographic isolation, not that anyone is seeking to do so unprompted. I also agree our interests aren’t with the anglo nations across the world but within Asia and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn’t get how bloody far away everything else is and how that distance makes them indifferent to our interests being in the region. We still have people wanting to chum up to Britain even as they’ve given a clear message that they don’t care nor think much of us and expect us to run our own country not still act the immature child who can’t make their own decisions. Until of course brexit and looking for suckers to trade with them after cutting themselves off from Europe.

Yes, it’s hard for me, even now to think about how major cities pop up at anywhere but seaports because of my own sense of Australia. It’s strange now living so far from the ocean and struggling with the town to open up the pool so me girls don’t have to make a day out of travelling to another towns pool to swim as we’re so rural and far away from others. To do a 40 minute drive into Texas for the pool makes it a much longer trip than if it was a few minutes. I lived in Geelong, the 2nd biggest city in Victoria and it was lovely to go to Eastern Beach (more of a bay) or even drive to a proper beach in Torquay which was a fantastic beach and not far from a world competition surf beach. Though I’ve grown accustom to the flat grass plains such that when I drove to Kentucky, the thick green plant life made me feel claustrophobic. Not seeing for miles was unusual.

Indeed, though imperfect, 23andMe claims my ancestry to be primarily and pretty much only from The UK and Ireland with the higher likelihood of ancestors from London and Glasgow. So I am definitely reflective of that Australian colonization.
Indeed, its a history still not properly reconciled in the present and made more difficult by reactionaries and moral panics to justify intense intrusion into the indigenous communities that I imagine no other people in Australia would tolerate for themselves. Even Kevin Rudd’s half decent initiative to ‘close the gap’ was demonized after his time as Prime Minister as a failure while failing to mention how the following government gutted the funding for it. We have the worst outcomes for a colonized indigenous population in the world and this is not hyberbole.
It is interesting to see efforts to mingle and balance different norms in the early days before the British had the upper hand and the interest to take land for cattle. Basically the calm before the storm where conditions don’t yet allow or motivate subjugation and people tend to mix with one another.
Learned about a Western Australian settlement and the difficulties of a lawyer trying to mediate local customs with his own cultural norms.

I find that interesting that they advertise in Mexico. It does seem Australia wants to import all its workers, even for short term then ship them out and for the educated because we’ve seen higher education and training pathways gutted and there is less investment in skilling up our own youth. Short term thinking and solutions rather than sustainable and long term goals and methods. I also wonder how easy it is because Australia’s immigration costs have only gone up in price. It was far cheaper for me to immigrate to the US than my wife to Australia even while claiming to want someone with her skills.

And so the freedom of capital seems more absolute but labor’s movement is limited except for the minority.
I feel Australia is falling behind for a lack of any national interest, only self interest and corruption. They lack vision or commitment. For example we have some of the worlds largest natural gas supplies but we have to pay more for it domestically than it is sold internationally because our capitalists then to give preference to international trade.
https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2016/aug/16/australian-gas-40-cheaper-japan-than-australia-despite-export-costs
I wonder if people in Mexico do take it up though. Our growth does seem highly dependent on immigration.

I’m still learning how to be a third grade teacher. How to balance being positive but firm and not sucked into student emotional outbursts of which there can be plenty for the less self regulated. Lifes good though. My youngest just turned 11 months.

[Wellsy]

I don’t think we bought the subs for the sake of the subs alone; rather for the technology (nuclear) that comes with it.

Unless of course we’ve got all that stuff already…then my thought is just another brain fart.

I’ll also add that our operating of these nuclear subs is dependent on US military support. They cannot be fielded without them, so the US have the final say on its operation. And hows that for sovereignty of a nation to do what ever another country's leadership dictate. If we really did end up in the shit i’d rather a military capable of defending Australia not dependent on the whims of another nation.
We should never be so beholden to another nation and to have willingly brought us into such a situation is disgusting.
There is no historical sense here for lessons of the recent past and once
https://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments/resources/curtin-brings-home-troops

Morrison is a traitor to the nation as far as I’m concerned. It seems the west is riddled with utter bloody idiots rising to the top like turds in a toilet bowl.

[Tainari88]

I’ll also add that our operating of these nuclear subs is dependent on US military support. They cannot be fielded without them, so the US have the final say on its operation. And hows that for sovereignty of a nation to do what ever another country's leadership dictate. If we really did end up in the shit i’d rather a military capable of defending Australia not dependent on the whims of another nation.
We should never be so beholden to another nation and to have willingly brought us into such a situation is disgusting.
There is no historical sense here for lessons of the recent past and once
https://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments/resources/curtin-brings-home-troops

Morrison is a traitor to the nation as far as I’m concerned. It seems the west is riddled with utter bloody idiots rising to the top like turds in a toilet bowl.

This is precisely why I am pro-independence for Puerto Rico. You can't rely on some people who use and abuse you for their own ends and means to be making sound decisions for your own group. You have to be independent in decision-making. Otherwise, you spend a lot of money on defending the interests of people who are only really there to exploit your group.

Yes, we have terrible leadership in general. Only really opportunistic foolish people seem to make it in politics. I assume it is because decent people with decent values are dedicated to less profane endeavors than political posts.

I never got my genes mapped out in one of those gene things. But my sister did. And she stated she has a large percentage of Lithuanians, then Syrian, then Moroccan, then Kenyan, then Arawak in a small percentage. I have zero anything from Irish or English or any of that. The Syrian, Moroccan is really about being of Southern Spanish stock. The Kenyan is East African and it means my African ancestry about 12% was a free African and not a slave African. It was recent and that African ancestry was interesting. Since most African blood in Puerto Rico is from West Africa. Genes interest me in anthropology. Syria is extremely ancient, so is Morrocco and so is Kenya. Lithuanians are about 3% of Europe has that genetic base. I got a little bit of everyone. That is the Caribbean islands Wellsy. We often reflect the history of the nation we are from genetically. Our children often reflect our parents and their grandparents too.

[Wellsy]

This is precisely why I am pro-independence for Puerto Rico. You can't rely on some people who use and abuse you for their own ends and means to be making sound decisions for your own group. You have to be independent in decision-making. Otherwise, you spend a lot of money on defending the interests of people who are only really there to exploit your group.

Yes, we have terrible leadership in general. Only really opportunistic foolish people seem to make it in politics. I assume it is because decent people with decent values are dedicated to less profane endeavors than political posts.

I never got my genes mapped out in one of those gene things. But my sister did. And she stated she has a large percentage of Lithuanians, then Syrian, then Moroccan, then Kenyan, then Arawak in a small percentage. I have zero anything from Irish or English or any of that. The Syrian, Moroccan is really about being of Southern Spanish stock. The Kenyan is East African and it means my African ancestry about 12% was a free African and not a slave African. It was recent and that African ancestry was interesting. Since most African blood in Puerto Rico is from West Africa. Genes interest me in anthropology. Syria is extremely ancient, so is Morrocco and so is Kenya. Lithuanians are about 3% of Europe has that genetic base. I got a little bit of everyone. That is the Caribbean islands Wellsy. We often reflect the history of the nation we are from genetically. Our children often reflect our parents and their grandparents too.

And add to this the Americans don’t even know what the bloody hell they’re doing. What is their strategy? It’s been ambiguous at best and at the moment it’s been former Aussie PM Kevin Rudd trying to spearhead an idea of how to engage China.
https://www.publicaffairsbooks.com/titles/kevin-rudd/the-avoidable-war/9781541701304/
We’ve shackled ourselves to the presently blind and we’re playing a dangerous game for what? Does the US actually want to control China’s periphery? And how? And why? What the hell are we doing but knee jerk reactions at this point which shows our lack of self control and direction.
And the warhawks who rattle the saber and say we’re going to invaded are the same bastards who put forth conscription, doubling the military budget and are in bed to arms manufacturers and dealers. They want to profit from death and idiots will damn well let them lead us to ruin.
Fair enough if things come to a head, but to just tun into it unnecessarily, eugh.

Though our labor party are soft social democrats for the most part, they do still seem to hold a sense of being public servants while I believe the Libera and National Coalition in Australia have been left so unaccountable in the media that they do whatever the hell they want.
But labour is still a sucker to Murdoch’s media which they need ti be more brazen about pursuing their own interests and setting their own stories.
The state premier of Victoria has nothings but excelled in popularity with his pursuit of policies and handling of the covid lockdown inspite if a press onslaught of his character.
They can be responsible adults but seem to be scared to go big on things at times. I think a lot of shitsticks go into politics because it can benefit them personally to do sweet deals with big money. They see personal advantage in their position and they can achieve it through bullshit.


Australia has been more insulated, especially with the policies near its founding (1901) seeking to expel everyone not considered white enough i.e English. There were also progressive ideas around social welfare and the like but to be limited only to white people. It makes some somewhat suspect of the historical tendency of social democracy to be successful where societies are most homogeneous and less so when racial antagonisms can be drummed up to attack social welfare.

Our immigration only shifted further east into Europe and South East Asia decades later while initially only promoting British immigration. We have different diasporas through different wars. Much of Australian cuisine in pubs seems defined by Italians with Chicken parmigiana being standard everywhere. They brought a bit of flavor beyond the dullness of some of our English dishes.
Actually here’s a fun bit about an Australian Greek in my hometown:

Though I do miss my parents’ Sunday lamb roasts. Lamb is a lot less common here in the US, especially as I’m surrounded by cattle ranches and Australia developed economically through wool to England. My city of Geelong itself was a port to send off wool.

I wasn’t surprised by my regional genetic ties as being primarily and largely from the UK and Ireland is about as much diversity I expected. Though I do wonder about the veracity of tying genes to a region and how it is delineated.



Closest I find to a critique of Keating’s position is K. Rudd.
https://amp.abc.net.au/article/102074010

Rudd responds to Keating's criticisms

Mr Rudd disagreed with former prime minister Paul Keating's long-standing critique of US policy, in which Mr Keating described the US trying to contain China.

Mr Rudd argued for a realistic reading of the situation on the ground.

"I would suggest that it's important for us also to analyse how the strategic environment in Asia and the Indo-Pacific, and for that matter globally, is changing because of China's own military rise," he said.

"The response to [China's increased military expenditure] from the United States, and by various US allies including Australia, has been somewhat late in coming, to be frank."

Last year, Mr Rudd published a book titled The Avoidable War on the danger of catastrophic conflict between the US and China.

He said it was part of Australia's role to work with China to deter that country from taking, "...premeditated military action against Taiwan which would be a fundamental destabilisation of the status quo."

My impression is people take Keating’s approach is similar to Britain trying to appease Hitler and Nazi Germany.
But implicit is the assumption of Chinese expansion beyond its own borders and surrounding sea.
The assumption that defines the difference is the threat assessment and also our capacity to respond.

Keating is cynical that the US could beat China in the seas surrounding it because with satellites and other tech, ships and the like can be detected long before they get any where near the enemy and sunk.
The fear is also is the US gives up in East Asia, they bugger off back across the sea, we’re still in Asia. We’re far away but not like the US. And it looks like we have buggered our mutual defense pact with Indonesia with John Howard and now we have this sub debacle.

Looks like we are running headlong into shit and bad decisions that don’t best defend us if it really blows up.
Keating argues that it need not be a cold war as China is not ideological as the USSR and is part of world institutions. And he makes a point for its interests for self sufficiency being based in westward infrastructure expansion. This sounds more plausible then directly confronting South East Asian nations at a high cost.


Edit: Defense Minister Richard Marles claims the subs are to defend our trade routes in the north.
https://amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/new-submarines-will-deter-blockades-that-cut-us-off-from-the-world-marles-20230316-p5css4.html

Defence Minister Richard Marles says Australia’s fleet of nuclear-powered submarines will help deter a foreign adversary from launching a shipping blockade which could cut off the country’s trading routes from the rest of the world.

This sounds sensible but I hope its been negotiated with the leadership of the Islands to our north such as Indonesia who had conflict with us over East Timor.
This is much better than Keating’s concerns.

Edit 2: and boom Indonesia doesn’t like this.
https://amp.smh.com.au/world/asia/aukus-created-for-fighting-push-for-indonesia-to-refuse-access-to-subs-20230314-p5crzz.html

Singapore/Jakarta: A senior Indonesian official says the country’s sea lanes should not be used by Australian nuclear-propelled submarines because “AUKUS was created for fighting”.

Blindsided by the original announcement of the AUKUS agreement in September 2021, Indonesia had warned Australia’s acquisition of nuclear-powered submarines could instigate a regional arms race that would heighten tensions in the Indo-Pacific.

On Tuesday, South-East Asia’s largest nation was the first in the region to react to the detailing of Australia’s $368 billion submarine plans, with Prime Minister Anthony Albanese attempting to soften the blow with an early phone call to Indonesia President Joko Widodo amid a blitz of briefings of world leaders.

“Indonesia has been closely watching the AUKUS security partnership cooperation, particularly the announcement regarding the path AUKUS will take to reach a critical AUKUS capability level,” the Indonesian Foreign Ministry said.

“Maintaining peace and stability in the region is the responsibility of all countries. It is critical for all countries to be a part of this effort.

Further fuck ups by stepping on the toes of the worlds largest Muslim nation in trying to salvage the white elephant.

For the laughs of what a mess it is.