Tainari88 wrote:That is not what racism is Wat0n. Here is the definition of racism:
rac·ism
/ˈrāˌsiz(ə)m/
noun
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized."a program to combat racism"
Similar:
the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.
"theories of racism"
This means Wat0n that there has to be some form of power relationship that is uneven or sustained by a structure or institution in society. It is not what you think it means at all.
No. Even your definition says prejudice can be held by an individual "against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group". It is typically held against a marginalized minority but it doesn't have to.
And there are of course examples where a minority that is not marginalized still deals with racism, and sometimes ends up being destroyed by it.
Tainari88 wrote:What makes people marginalized and a minority? In the USA? There is the thing. To believe that different races possess characteristics, abilities and or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior and superior to one another.
For some, perhaps. But it's most definitely not the only reason of why marginalization exists.
Trailer park white trash is not part of a racial minority and I don't think most people in the US would say their situation is due to their race. Yet they are most definitely marginalized. The very term "white trash" itself makes it clear they're marginalized.
Or are you going to say these guys
here are not living in the margins of society?
(The whole article, too, feels like a form of "social tourism", as if the photographer had gone to some isolated community even though it's in a touristy place - Sonoma, CA).
Tainari88 wrote:That is the issue. Why do you constantly think Latin American societies are inferior to the USA one? Because you think that if a society is prosperous, firs world, modern and successful it must have superior characteristics to the ones who are living in poverty or who are not as successful materially. You do not look for systemic factors playing a role in who has more power to invest or borrow, or any logical reasons for the discrepancies. You make statements about culture or behavior in that culture that makes it less economically prosperous and you equate it with their own failures. It must be they are not as intelligent, superior or this or that to the successful society. You sound like a racist when you do that Wat0n. You really do.
This is quite evidently a straw man.
It is not so much about culture but
institutions why the US is richer than Latin America. And it's less unequal, too.
Tainari88 wrote:I do not find Latin American culture inferior in the least. I never have.
It has pros and cons relative to American culture.
Tainari88 wrote:But I do think how the banking system works and how certain nations are structured within the international capitalist system that there are nations deliberately impeded in becoming developed. There is a logic behind that underdevelopment. It is not about inferior or superior cultures. It is about how economic power is brokered and distributed. Two very different things.
No one but Latin America itself is impeding its economic growth.
If anything, the rest of the world and specially the US would very much prefer if Latin America was more economically developed and prosperous.
Tainari88 wrote:African Americans in the past were enslaved and considered property for a long time simply because they needed to be exploited by a system that was supported through laws and institutions in order for the slaveholding class and the banks and the legislative and judicial and executive branches of government to be able to gain economically. That is obvious. It has nothing to do with if Africans are dumber and made to lose and made to be slaves. It was systemic. If you can not understand that at all Wat0n? Then there is nothing further for you to be able to contribute is there?
Did I ever say African Americans are dumber?
In the past, indeed, they were enslaved and not considered to be actual persons. And after they were finally recognized as persons, they were left under a legal second class status until the 1960s.
Nowadays, they are still dealing with the consequences of that discrimination but it is simply not true that this is applicable to all African Americans (it definitely does not apply to those who are part of the American upper and upper middle classes) or that there are no issues originating within some of their communities, which overlap to a great deal with those affecting poor white people like those guys above.
In both there is abandonment by the rest of society, both have to deal with drug addiction, both also need to deal with poor access to public services and lack of opportunity, you can also find plenty of dysfunctional families in both, and yes in both there are also those who are just unwilling to do the sacrifices necessary to leave their current condition or who expect the rest of society to do it for them. Just like the poor everywhere for that matter, be it the US, Latin America, Europe, Asia or wherever.
None of this should be surprising for anyone claiming to be a socialist.
ckaihatsu wrote:No, racism really *isn't* bottom-up, as you're positing -- it's *top-down*.
Racism is definitely bottom up. In particular, appealing to race (and by extension racial discrimination) can help with the internal cohesion of those members of the community who are discriminating by race. Cohesion, too, is one major reason why identity politics exists in the first place. As such, the racism held by individuals can and does translate into racism by the institutions. Institutions are not managed by robots either.
Why else do you think racism doesn't seem to go away even when the elites actively try to root it out? Racism remains even in so called socialist "paradises" like Cuba, and it's not because there is no genuine desire by the ideological Cuban Marxists to eliminate it but simply that racism doesn't go away because they want it to. The US isn't "special" or "exceptional" in this regard.