Circumcision versus transgender hormones in children - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Do you think the following should be banned for these children?

both should be allowed
2
11%
circumcision should be allowed, but not transgender hormones
6
32%
transgender hormones should be allowed, but not circumcision
1
5%
both should not be allowed
10
53%
#15269423
This poll is to try to determine what relationship exists between people's views of (male) circumcision and transgender hormones in children. Two different issues, but issues with similarities.

Obviously circumcision in children is usually done at birth, whereas transgender hormones in trans children might begin at age 11 or 13.
To help simplify things and remove ambiguity, for the purpose of the poll question, let's assume that the age of the child taking transgender hormones would be 13.
#15270109
Well, I know that this might be a hot take, but I have mixed feelings on both of these matters. On circumcision, especially given that as it turns out I am Zera Yisrael , in terms of genealogy , I don't feel that circumcision should be banned outright. I do however feel that the procedure should only be performed by a licensed mohel. Based upon what my mother has told me about my own circumcision , at the hospital shortly after I was born, I feel that the way that it was carried out was cold and inhumane, in contrast to a "brit milah" , which I think is more delicate, and personal. But like I said, I know that a sizable number of people, mostly from outside the United States, and apart from the Islamic world, will find the idea of circumcision to be strange and barbaric. I just don't feel that it's any worse than the custom of Hispanic parents having their baby girls ears pierced. Only the latter practice doesn't have a sacred religious significance to it, merely cultural. As for hormone replacement, for those teens dealing with gender dysphoria, I feel that puberty blockers should be used at first, and then later on in adolescence, if authorized for transitioning, by a suitable medical specialist, hormones should be allowed to be prescribed . I think that, given the example of Kim Petras, this should serve to preserve the feminine look of the face, and the sound of the voice, thereby helping the transgirls in question to better passably present as female to the general public. So is any of this child abuse? I will post some videos, and let people here draw their own conclusions.
#15270112
I hung out at a website that was mostly European intellectuals. At first, thought it was perfect. Humans don't do perfect.

First, circumcision is not modern medicine. There is no rational reason to carve up a penis. But I don't advocate banning it, and a lot of people that do want to ban it are anti-Semitic.

I don't have a position on hormones to change genders. As part of my cancer treatment, I got shot with massive amounts of girl hormones. It was awful. It gave me diabetes.

I have a LOT of reservations about changing gender. But what I don't have is good science. My impression is that a lot of the work concerning safety and efficacy is incomplete, and that leaves me in limbo.
#15270115
late wrote:First, circumcision is not modern medicine. There is no rational reason to carve up a penis. But I don't advocate banning it, and a lot of people that do want to ban it are anti-Semitic.

Keep in mind when we are talking about "banning it" we are talking about in young children, between the time of birth and before they can talk.
(More than 99% of the time it's done without the child's consent and the small child is forced to undergo the procedure)

Do you still repeat your opinion that it should not be banned on newborn babies?
#15270208
@Rancid they asked me at the hospital if I wanted to have my son's penis circumcised. I said no. I do not believe in any alterations for any reason. No pain for my son under any circumstances. For me it is barbarism. Period. They used to believe that having your appendix removed is ok. Now they find out much later that the appendix has life saving bacteria in huge quantities and it is there for emergencies for the poisoning of the bloodstream.

If there is flesh there leave it alone.

As for transgender that is a tough one.

I say one should not contemplate any major surgery until age 25. At least.

Male brains do not stop developing until that age. And women around 23.

No teen transgenders. At all. Too much going on during adolescence.

I saw a documentary on transgenders and it was a complete wake-up call for me. One male wanted to be a female. He got the operation. But? The hormones and the surgery were way off and he wound up not having any sexual feelings at all. And sex as a female was painful as hell and he felt NOTHING. He had to take hormones and then said he had severe depression and wanted desperately to go back to being a man. So, I was shocked. No one wants to be asexual by force.

There needs to be a very long process for the transgender reassignment surgery. Cutting off testicles, the scrotum being altered and the penis being cut and then making an artificial vagina and that person will never have real and active ovaries and periods, and the uterus will never get pregnant or breastfeed. That is reality.

No one is honest. If you can't get pregnant and be a woman in the most elemental way of being able to carry a fetus full term? Then what purpose is there for creating a vagina from a male sexual organ?
Last edited by Tainari88 on 02 Apr 2023 03:23, edited 1 time in total.
#15270209
Tainari88 wrote:@Rancid they asked me at the hospital if I wanted to have my son's penis circumcised. I said no. I do not believe in any alterations for any reason. No pain for my son under any circumstances. For me it is barbarism. Period. They used to believe that having your appendix removed is ok. Now they find out much later that the appendix has life saving bacteria in huge quantities and it is there for emergencies for the poisoning of the bloodstream.

If there is flesh there leave it alone.


Agree. I'm against circumcision.

With respect to appendix. I had mine removed. :hmm:

Fun fact, appendicitis rates have decreased dramatically in western nations. However, oddly enough, it has increased a lot in countries like India for some reason.
#15270236
Fasces wrote:Both should be allowed when deemed necessary by a medical professional, ideally with parental consent.

That may sound reasonable, to someone who doesn't know anything about anything, but actually it's not so simple as that, in either case.

To understand why that is, you really need to understand more about both situations.

A lot of times doctors in the U.S. will claim the child "needs" a circumcision for a medical issue, but actually it really isn't true, the circumcision is not absolutely needed to deal with the medical issue.

For the transgender issue, well, as you can imagine it gets even more complicated. There's no real fool-proof way to determine whether that child "needs" it, most of the time. In the same exact situation, one doctor may think they need it in their opinion, while another doctor may not.

Of course, don't you think the parents are going to do doctor shopping to find the doctor who agrees with what they want to do? Even if that doctor's opinion is only 1 out of 100, and is not the majority view.


It's my opinion (well really just plain common sense, actually) that neither circumcision nor transgender hormones are ever ABSOLUTELY medically necessary, the vast majority of time.
(And don't misunderstand, I'm not even claiming I oppose transgender hormones in all situations, just pointing out that the patient will not die or suffer ill physical health if they don't get it)
#15271933
Both should be banned.

And as Tainairi mentioned, the puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones - amongst other things they're learning because many children are guinea pigs to these drugs - result in anorgasmia, sterilisation, osteoporosis (in children!) eye problems and more.

Also, teaching children they're in the wrong body is psycho shit.
#15274373
Sandzak wrote:
Circumcision is an advantage!


About LGBTQ+ I can not write due to legal reasons...



Actually, it's not an advantage. Europe did a deep dive on this, and they decided against it. The reason we still do it is mostly inertia. That said, I am not in favor of banning it.

What legal reasons could there be?
#15274382
Both should be choices that only adults make.

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) found that the health benefits of newborn male circumcision (prevention of urinary tract infections, penile cancer, and transmission of some sexually transmitted infections, including HIV) outweigh the risks, but the benefits are not great enough to recommend universal newborn circumcision.
https://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions ... %20newborn

What is the medical evidence on non-therapeutic child circumcision?
We would argue that, even where small potential benefits for non-therapeutic infant circumcision exist, these apparent benefits only take significance when the infant becomes an adult, and are far out-weighed by the harms. There appears to be little evidence that confers significant medical advantage from having this irreversible surgical procedure performed as a baby rather than as an adult. For this reason, there does not appear to be any compelling reasons why parents (or doctors) should be making this intervention on behalf of children before the child reaches an age at which he can review the evidence and consent for himself.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41443-021-00502-y
#15274516
My brother was told his son might need to be circumcised for having a too tight foreskin when he was about 5. My brother wasn’t happy, but took him along to have surgery as he believed it was the best thing. Before the op, the surgeon examined my nephew and told my brother it was a borderline case and he wouldn’t perform the op on his own son under the same circumstances. He demonstrated some stretching exercises the boy should do and see how it went. When my brother took his son back two months later, the exercises had worked and there was no longer any problem.

I never really understood why American fathers used to insist their sons be circumcised. A foreskin is considered an asset in the U.K. and probably other countries, too
#15274629
@Sandzak Irrelevant. Self-inflicted and unnecessary wounds are idiotic.

Circumcisions are unnecessary, and should be decided upon, when you are an adult, if you want to do that. I did not have a choice. I doubt I would have chosen to have one, when I reached adulthood.
#15274634
Godstud wrote:@Sandzak Irrelevant. Self-inflicted and unnecessary wounds are idiotic.

Circumcisions are unnecessary, and should be decided upon, when you are an adult, if you want to do that. I did not have a choice. I doubt I would have chosen to have one, when I reached adulthood.



It is rather an open wound when you are not cicumcised.
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