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By noemon
#15274904
snapdragon wrote:John Rawls is right. The membership meant nothing when it came to putting crosses on paper. I make no claims for the veracity of the story that a lot of Tory voters joined the Labour Party on purpose to get corbyn elected as leader, then left once mission accomplished.


Seriously, what are you on about?

Corbyn won the highest share any party has won in decades, even the Tories. It took a combination of things to beat Corbyn's Labour, namely Brexit and Johnson rallying the racists against immigrants, Farage himself throwing his weight behind Johnson, the "anti-semitic" nonsense as well as the entire establishment fighting against Corbyn as well as 12 years of Tories micromanaging the electoral process and redrawing electoral maps that suit them in the fptp system.

Fact is the Tories have a lot more antisemites and racists in their ranks than Labour. Nowhere near close actually.

Corbyn won more votes than the Tories received in any election the past 2 decades of them being in government!?!
By snapdragon
#15274938
What am I on about? The bottom line is corbyn lost Labour two elections against two of the worst prime ministers I’ve known in my lifetime.

Whatever you might claim about 2019, Labour were wiped out. Their voter share slumped during the 2019 election. I think to the lowest since the war, though I need to check that.

That was corbyn’s doing.
By Rich
#15274939
snapdragon wrote:What am I on about? The bottom line is corbyn lost Labour two elections against two of the worst prime ministers I’ve known in my lifetime.

Whatever you might claim about 2019, Labour were wiped out. Their voter share slumped during the 2019 election. I think to the lowest since the war, though I need to check that.

That was corbyn’s doing.

In part, but in large part, it was Starmer's doing. Starmer deliberately abandoned the moderate Brexit and moderate remainer vote in order to move into Liberal Democrat territory. Starmer's strategy was designed to choke off the Liberal Democrat revival and stop its emergence as the party of Europe. Many Working class voters liked the fact that Corbyn was not a hard line remainer. Starmer is the ultimate establishment safe pair of hands. The man who kept the lid on the Jimmy Saville scandal. His first job was to keep Corbyn out of number 10, his second to contain the Liberal Democrats and protect the two party system.
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By Beren
#15274964
Rich wrote:In part, but in large part, it was Starmer's doing. His first job was to keep Corbyn out of number 10, his second to contain the Liberal Democrats and protect the two party system.

Starmer was marginalised during Brexit and especially in the 2019 election, so it'd be too hard for anyone but anti-Liberals like you and Corbyn-fans like Mr. Cheka and Ms. Komsomol to blame him for the final electoral collapse of Labour. Labour kept themselves out of power with Corbyn, who was actually unelectable for various reasons despite him successfully having mobilised the leftist base.
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By JohnRawls
#15275075
@skinster
@ingliz


By skinster
#15275084
Opposition grows to Starmer’s block on Corbyn as 70,000 make their voice heard

snapdragon wrote:What am I on about? The bottom line is corbyn lost Labour two elections against two of the worst prime ministers I’ve known in my lifetime.


That is not the bottom line. The bottom line is Labour lost under Corbyn for the things noemon pointed out:

noemon wrote:It took a combination of things to beat Corbyn's Labour, namely Brexit and Johnson rallying the racists against immigrants, Farage himself throwing his weight behind Johnson, the "anti-semitic" nonsense as well as the entire establishment fighting against Corbyn as well as 12 years of Tories micromanaging the electoral process and redrawing electoral maps that suit them in the fptp system.


There was a massive campaign against Corbyn and those who supported him coming from all directions, aside from the things noemon mentioned, ex CIA director and then Secretary of State Mike Pompeo threatened to "push back" against a Corbyn election (I'm talking about the U.S. government at the time threatening the U.K. Labour party, if it isn't clear), all major newspapers were attacking him daily the Zionist lobbies were vicious, the right of the party had plans of "stabbing" Corbyn "in the back and front" and did you miss The Labour Files which detailed some of that insanity?

And despite all these things and more, Labour were successful as far as numbers and support for Corbyn leading. Yes of course Labour didn't win the election in 2019 against the Tories, but you can't talk about that while ignoring all this other stuff which explains why Labour lost. Because that's bullshit.
User avatar
By ingliz
#15275134
@snapdragon

The Guardian is a Lib-Dem mouthpiece. It's not a neutral observer. It's not even particularly left-wing. Of course, it was going to bash Corbyn at every opportunity.


:lol:
By snapdragon
#15275143
If you’d bothered to actually click on the links, you’d know the first is to Labour together and the second is to Kate proctor, the political editor of politics at home.

She gives a very fair analysis. Take it or leave it, I don’t care.

You obviously prefer skinster’s Twitter links . Up to you, but don’t just troll. I don’t feed trolls.
User avatar
By ingliz
#15275147
snapdragon wrote:politics at home

The Merit Group plc is a British publishing holding company founded in 2001. Its largest shareholder/owner is the Conservative politician and businessman Lord Michael Ashcroft.


:lol:
By Rich
#15275940
So what on earth is going on with the case of Comrade Schofield, or should that be the renegade Schofield? I'm totally mystified as to what this is about.
By Rich
#15287341
I loved this quote from the Spectator on Liz Truss
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/was-liz-truss-wrong-or-wronged/ wrote:One part Reagan to four parts Chávez.

In my view the energy subsidies were an absolute abomination. And Truss presents herself as free market hero. Truss was much worse than the Gracchi, who themselves are rarely lauded as free market paragons. Under the Gracchi the citizen only got a fixed amount of subsidised grain, where as under Truss's policy the more energy you use the more the subsidy.

I oppose energy subsidies, if you want to help people with the cost of living crisis put money directly into people's pockets (OR bank accounts), preferably as part of the start of a national basic income. But I also oppose Net Zero madness which in Britain should be called "Cuck Zero." We need to start taking Global Warming seriously, which in Britain means we need a massive rollout of air conditioning, to catch up with Europe and America.
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By ingliz
#15287416
snapdragon wrote:Labour together

Labour Together are the lying little shits Blairite faction within the party that went out of its way to ensure Labour lost the 2019 election by making mountains out of molehills, organising the Chicken Coup in 2016, and hostile briefing party policy to Conservative-leaning newspapers and anyone else who would listen.


:lol:
By Rich
#15287765
I haven't even been a Tory voter, let alone having prior inside knowledge of Sunak's announcement. But it seems that Sunak is making a stand against Cuck Zero. He's been making a much more comprehensive explanation of what I was talking about in my previous post in this thread.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-66863110
User avatar
By noemon
#15287769
I'm listening to it now.

Well done Sunak.

Fuck electric cars & fuck heat pumps. They are a con.

Now that it's been pushed to 2035 I am expecting another announcement at 2028 that banning petrol cars in 2035 has been scrapped altogether.

The EU will do it first.
By skinster
#15287796
Ha, good move from the Tory midget insofar as getting people onside. That'll likely secure them another win in the next election, alongside that time of him recently getting caught laughing at gender bollocks.

I actually prefer them in than the other rightwing party, Labour in name only.
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By noemon
#15289547
Right oh.

So Rishi has announced a smoking ban by increasing the smoking age by 1 year every year until noone is allowed to buy cigarettes anymore.

According to their calculations, any 14 y.o. today will never be able to buy cigarettes and any 15 yo will be able to buy them.

So imagine in 40 years time, you 're gonna need your 56 yo mate to buy cigarettes for your 55 y.o self while waiting around the shop.

Nice one.

HS2: he announced that the Birmingham-Manchester train leg slated to cost anything from 30 billion to 30 trillion(by the actual time it gets done) is cancelled. Phew for that, because just some repairs on a London station that were supposed to cost 200 million ended up costing 20 billion instead. Nope, this is not a joke.

"A man is a man and a woman is a woman", he proclaimed to the jubilant cheers of the Tory crowds. Yeeeh.

And A-Levels will be renamed to T-Levels in 10 year's time when Rishi is in California by then. Noice. I do agree with that Math & English must be made compulsory until 18 as is in every other normal country.

Much ado about nothing for Rishi.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15289550
noemon wrote:I'm listening to it now.

Well done Sunak.

Fuck electric cars & fuck heat pumps. They are a con.

Now that it's been pushed to 2035 I am expecting another announcement at 2028 that banning petrol cars in 2035 has been scrapped altogether.

The EU will do it first.


May be. Electric cars being mandatory is not something that should exist right now if the technology isn't there. The governments can subsidise them to develop the technology sure but making them mandatory is bullshit. Heat pumps, I am not really sure what that is about. Probably some UK specific stuff, is it the ground heating stuff?
User avatar
By noemon
#15289551
That is old news and nothing to rave about. Sunak changed the 2030 date to 2035 but kept manufacturer fines, any company selling cars must sell 80% electric cars by 2030 otherwise they will be heavily penalized anyway for every ICE car they sell above that threshold, so they will pass that penalty to the customer basically.

Heat pumps are effectively electric air-condition units for the winter that either draw from the ground or the air. They are a huge con, that simply do not work. You swap your reliable gas boiler that costs 4-7 pence per kwh to run to replace them with aircon units that fail to heat your house while paying 30-50pence per kwh. He has kept the subsidies for the heat pumps though, I believe. The UK had announced that all gas boilers need to be changed by 2027 or something and replaced with heat pumps. This is now scrapped as it was a pretty stupid Tory plan anyway.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15289553
noemon wrote:That is old news and nothing to rave about. Sunak changed the 2030 date to 2035 but kept manufacturer fines, any company selling cars must sell 80% electric cars by 2030 otherwise they will be heavily penalized anyway for every ICE car they sell above that threshold, so they will pass that penalty to the customer basically.

Heat pumps are effectively electric air-condition units for the winter that either draw from the ground or the air. They are a huge con, that simply do not work. You swap your reliable gas boiler that costs 4-7 pence per kwh to run to replace them with aircon units that fail to heat your house while paying 30-50pence per kwh. He has kept the subsidies for the heat pumps though, I believe. The UK had announced that all gas boilers need to be changed by 2027 or something and replaced with heat pumps. This is now scrapped as it was a pretty stupid Tory plan anyway.


80% is too much honestly. The technology is not there yet so the question is why is everyone doing it in a mandatory way. I would understand if governments made Nuclear/Solar/Wind/Hydro
/Bio the only acceptable generation possibilities sure but EVs are not fully ready as discussed before. I mean they work just they don't work very well at what they need to do. Need to be more efficient and the battery problem needs to be solved.

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