Circumcision versus transgender hormones in children - Page 8 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

Do you think the following should be banned for these children?

both should be allowed
2
11%
circumcision should be allowed, but not transgender hormones
6
32%
transgender hormones should be allowed, but not circumcision
1
5%
both should not be allowed
10
53%
#15275333
wat0n wrote:Out of curiosity, would you also be for letting cisgender children get gender-affirming care?


@Pants-of-dog

To clarify what I mean here, consider a 16 year old physically normal biological (46,XY) male who's suffering from body dysmorphic disorder, and feels he doesn't look manly enough.

Should he be allowed to take steroids or other anabolics so he'll grow more muscle and get leaner, thereby looking more masculine? Should the taxpayer or insurers fund this?

This would all fall into the "gender-affirming" care spectrum, wouldn't it? As in, if this male was a physically normal biological (46,XX) female (a completely random event) who identifies as male and therefore naturally wants to look manlier then the answer would be "yes".

I just want to understand how far would society go in this regard. Steroids and anabolics in general are illegal in the US and at least heavily regulated elsewhere.
#15275339
Please note that the preceding quoted article specifically states that these same body modification treatments are still allowed for cis kids.

These treatments are only banned for trans people.

So those of you who think these treatments should not be allowed for kids at all should also be opposed to these bans for not going far enough.
#15275370
Pants-of-dog wrote:So those of you who think these treatments should not be allowed for kids at all should also be opposed to these bans for not going far enough.
False. Treatments to normal children is based on a medical need whereas the other is based on a mental illness, confusion, and Woke religion.
#15275379
@Godstud

I completely understand why you think that.

Please note that the majority of medical professionals in the world disagree with you.

Since you have not presented a valid science based argument why they are wrong, I will continue to assume the studies are not lying.
#15275383
Pants-of-dog wrote:Please note that the majority of medical professionals in the world disagree with you.
That's a bold-faced lie. You just ignore the ones that don't agree with your perverse and depraved cult of child abusers.

Sweden decided in February 2022 to halt hormone therapy for minors except in very rare cases, and in December, the National Board of Health and Welfare said mastectomies for teenage girls wanting to transition should be limited to a research setting.

"The uncertain state of knowledge calls for caution," Board department head Thomas Linden said in a statement in December.

So-called puberty blockers have been used in young teens contemplating gender transition to delay the onset of unwanted physical changes.

Like many other countries, Sweden has seen a sharp rise in cases of gender dysphoria, a condition where a person may experience distress as a result of a mismatch between their biological sex and the gender they identify as

The profile of those diagnosed is often complex, according to Linden, as gender dysphoria often occurs in those also suffering from other diagnoses, such as attention deficit and eating disorders or autism.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/2 ... ans-minors

Pants-of-dog wrote:Since you have not presented a valid science based argument why they are wrong, I will continue to assume the studies are not lying.
Incomplete studies made by medical institutes that benefit from Big Pharma and elective surgeries support by a cult of immorality and delusion.
#15275387
Sweden is not the rest of the world but they have the most knowledge on this sort of thing. You dismiss things without thought because it does not confirm your deviant bias.

Giving drugs(hormone therapy) and doing gender affirming surgery is 'medical care', and you know it. You don't have to be as bad as the cult you worship, @Pants-of-dog. Have some fucking common sense.
#15275393
I never said that, @Pants-of-dog . Stop being disingenuous, for a change. You think you get a "Gotcha" moment, but you just come off as pathetic. I never said "valid" at any point.

Puberty blockers and sex hormones do not have U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval for children’s gender care. No clinical trials have established their safety for such off-label use. The drugs’ long-term effects on fertility and sexual function remain unclear. And in 2016, the FDA ordered makers of puberty blockers to add a warning about psychiatric problems to the drugs’ label after the agency received several reports of suicidal thoughts in children who were taking them.

More broadly, no large-scale studies have tracked people who received gender-related medical care as children to determine how many remained satisfied with their treatment as they aged and how many eventually regretted transitioning. The same lack of clarity holds true for the contentious issue of detransitioning, when a patient stops or reverses the transition process.

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/po ... e-00093427
#15275416
So you are too lazy to press a single button? Typical.

Puberty blockers and sex hormones do not have U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval for children’s gender care. No clinical trials have established their safety for such off-label use. The drugs’ long-term effects on fertility and sexual function remain unclear. And in 2016, the FDA ordered makers of puberty blockers to add a warning about psychiatric problems to the drugs’ label after the agency received several reports of suicidal thoughts in children who were taking them.

More broadly, no large-scale studies have tracked people who received gender-related medical care as children to determine how many remained satisfied with their treatment as they aged and how many eventually regretted transitioning. The same lack of clarity holds true for the contentious issue of detransitioning, when a patient stops or reverses the transition process.
#15275418
Godstud wrote:Puberty blockers and sex hormones do not have U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval for children’s gender care.


What does this mean?

Does this mean that one of the two has received such approval, but not both?

Does it mean both have been approved for other uses?

Does it mean the FDA has not tested them? Or tested them and they failed? Or will never test them?

We will get to the rest later when you clarify this. Thanks.
#15275426
Godstud wrote:mental illness

British medical professionals disagree with you.

Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness, but some people may develop mental health problems because of gender dysphoria.

— NHS

Woke religion

It may be a cultural thing, but in Malta, we are very relaxed when it comes to trans individuals. Yes, we still make jokes. And laugh at them or pity them. But our transgender community need not fear the violence common in other countries and can rely on some of the most progressive gender legislation in the world.

Gender Identity, Gender Expression and Sex Characteristics Act’ (GIGESC)


:)
Last edited by ingliz on 29 May 2023 09:09, edited 3 times in total.
#15275428
Actual violence against trans people is rare. As soon as you say, "I won't call you by the pronoun you just made up.", it's seen as "assault", however.

Malta doesn't sound like the West. Thailand doesn't have this Woke religion, and transgender people are relatively common. Trans people don't take themselves too seriously and just live their lives. The difference is that education and schools don't push an ideology of gender identity which further confuses children at a time when they are hitting puberty and discovering their sexuality. Activism is rare, as the people calling for the pronoun usage are usually not the trans people, themselves.

@Pants-of-dog I have wasted enough time on your bigotry. You figure it out.
#15275432
Godstud wrote:Actual violence against trans people is rare

According to a 2021 study by the Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law. In the US, transgender people are over four times more likely to experience violent victimization, including rape, sexual assault, and aggravated or simple assault.
#15275542
Whatever violence is occurring against men identifying as women is coming from other men, not women. Therefore this is a male problem that must be dealt by males. Women don't own trans invaders anything, particularly because there was never even a debate about the invasion of our spaces, sports etc.

Also, gender dysphoria is very much a mental illness.

And for those who claim the medication and mutilation is irreversible, it's very much not. And some who learned this the hard way share their stories below. There's over 40,000 detransitioners on a Reddit forum for detransitioners too, for anyone interested in hearing more from these children that fucked up because they trusted adults who lie(d) to them about being able to be the opposite of what they are, something that's impossible.
#15275544
skinster wrote:very much a mental illness

What are you going to do then?

Section them?

Out of sight, out of mind, just so you can piss in peace without the worry that, God forbid, the woman in the next cubicle is a man? :eek:

Note: The odds of being sexually assaulted in a toilet by a man identifying as female (UK pop. 48,000) are minuscule. It's much more likely you would be assaulted by a man identifying as male (UK pop. 29.2 million) as there are so many more of them about.

sports

On this, we can agree.

If nothing is done, we are back in 'East Germany in the 80s' territory.

these children

According to published clinical guidelines, these children should be over 16 years of age.

I've read they want to give the vote to 16-year-olds in the UK. If you are considered to have sufficient mental capacity to vote by age 16, you should be capable of giving informed consent.

these children that fucked up

Actions have consequences.
#15277323
ingliz wrote:What are you going to do then?

Section them?

Out of sight, out of mind, just so you can piss in peace without the worry that, God forbid, the woman in the next cubicle is a man? :eek:


That's not why I call it a mental illness, which it obviously is.

Some delusional people may need to be sectioned, if they are a harm to themselves or others. And it's not about pissing in peace. Female spaces are not for men and the end. You do not get to dismiss female concerns about the invasion of their spaces where women have been raped in by men identifying as women. I understand you don't care about that but women do, and we say, get fucked.

Still, I would do what I'm doing, oppose the unnecessary medicalisation of children, this eugenics movement, and deny them surgery that will mutilate them. That's what I support. And increasingly, countries are siding with me on ceasing puberty blockers for minors because it today remains an experimental project which we're learning is causing health problems in children. You BE KIND crew never consider these harms and try to act sanctimonious too. Very weird and disingenuous is what you are. And it begins with the lie that you are being kind when lying to people about what they are.

I've read they want to give the vote to 16-year-olds in the UK. If you are considered to have sufficient mental capacity to vote by age 16, you should be capable of giving informed consent.


How is it informed consent when it's an experimental project that as I said above, is increasingly creating more harm than good? Do you think kids are informed that they can never have children when they're older, something their young minds might not consider important at the time of their brain still developing? Kids on these drugs or their parents have to sign indemnity forms for what should be obvious reasons.

Actions have consequences.


Your politics on this question are awful. I have to wonder why you're supportive of this psyop posing as a movement for human rights that violates the rights of other groups. Do you know anyone identifying as trans? Do you hate women? What explains your dismissive nature to female concerns?
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