“I will be able to destroy leftism and leave woke ideology in the dustbin of history." - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

Moderator: PoFo Today's News Mods

#15275527
Guardian :x wrote:
Predicting two terms in the White House should he defeat Donald Trump for the Republican presidential nomination next year, Ron DeSantis said he would go on to “destroy leftism in this country”.

“I will be able to destroy leftism in this country and leave woke ideology in the dustbin of history,” the Florida governor told Fox News.

DeSantis declared his long-expected run last week, in a glitch-filled appearance on Twitter with its owner, Elon Musk.

The widely panned launch followed a long phony war period in which DeSantis toured early voting states and launched a campaign-oriented book but nonetheless fell further and further behind the former president in primary polling.

Trump faces unprecedented legal jeopardy, including criminal charges over a hush money payment to a porn star; being found liable for sexual assault and defamation; and facing indictment for his election subversion and incitement of the January 6 attack on Congress and for his retention of classified records.

Nonetheless, Trump maintains big leads over the rest of the field. Most polling averages put Trump more than 30 points ahead of his nearest challenger: DeSantis.

Undaunted, the governor told Fox & Friends on Monday: “At the end of the day, I’ve shown in Florida an ability to win huge swaths of voters that Republicans typically can’t win – while also delivering the boldest agenda anywhere in the country.”

Democrats and many political observers suggest that hardline record, including attacks on LGBTQ+ rights, moves to control teaching in public schools, loosened gun control laws and a six-week abortion ban, will cost DeSantis in a general election.

The governor’s high-profile fight with Disney, a major employer in his state, over its opposition to his so-called “don’t say gay” law prohibiting discussion of sexuality and gender identity in public classrooms, has also cost him support among some major donors.

Speaking to Fox News, DeSantis said the fight with Disney was about “standing for parents … standing for children. And I think a multibillion-dollar company that sexualises children is not consistent with the values of Florida or the values of a place like Iowa”, which will hold the first Republican contest next year.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... are_btn_tw


Thank God for DeSantis. He is acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

Marxism rejects the aristocratic principle of Nature. As a foundation of the universe, this doctrine would bring about the end of any order intellectually conceivable to man. Marxism descends like a nightmare on the mind and soul of decent people.
#15275537
Woke is more rightwing than actual rightwingers, far more for authoritarism, censorship etc than the current right wing, so this statement makes no sense.

Woke is the successor of the neoliberal movement. Just like the neoliberal movement it tries to stabilize the system.

In case of the woke movement, they took everything the left stands for, except the main point - the conflict between the rich and the regular people - and dialed them up until it became a parody of the original cause.

For example leftwingers traditionally oppose racism. The woke movement is racist - against whites. Because thats apparently even "better" than being against any racism, no matter against whom.

Political correctness, the idea that you should be tolerant of others and shouldnt insult people for their identity, was parodized into the cancel culture, a movement that literally attempts to destroy peoples lifes if they have a "wrong" opinion.

The ultimate cause of the woke movement is proving than anyone, with any identity, can be part of the priviledged elites. Thus anyone not part of these elites has only himself to blame, not the system.

Thats why the woke movement isnt left, or progressive, at all. It left the core conflict behind and tries to abuse traditional left issues for stabilizing instead of criticizing and improving the current system.

I also dont think its much of an accomplishment to fight the woke movement. They're getting rid of themselves without any outside help.

Besides, Marx was a democrat and would have objected to the soviet union. Calling the worst capitalists of the current world "Marxists" is completely stupid. Marx would have hated these people with a passion.
#15275538
Totalitarianism can be left or right. The Woke IS left. It IS progressive. It is simply too progressive as it goes off the rail on the crazy train with a delusional ideology of inclusivity within its own group, and exclusion of anyone who might not agree 100% with the Woke dogma.

The Woke are the real racists. They are the real cancel culture. They are the child groomers and anti-Feminists.
#15275543
Godstud wrote:Totalitarianism can be left or right. The Woke IS left. It IS progressive. It is simply too progressive as it goes off the rail on the crazy train with a delusional ideology of inclusivity within its own group, and exclusion of anyone who might not agree 100% with the Woke dogma.

The Woke are the real racists. They are the real cancel culture. They are the child groomers and anti-Feminists.

No, I think @Negotiator has a point. Look at who the Woke brigade actually are. Are they industrial workers? Are they union activists? Are they revolutionary Marxists? No, definitely not. The capitalist system is very good at suborning attempts to undermine or overthrow it. And Woke culture is perfectly compatible with the individualism of neoliberal economic doctrine - just as the marketplace is fragmented and segmented, so the population itself can be fragmented and segmented. There’s a market niche for everyone. Well, everyone except those who oppose neoliberalism or Woke culture, of course. And while we’re distracted by the ‘issue’ of transgender rights, or whatever the Woke cause du jour happens to be, the ruling class are robbing us blind.
#15275546
What does “woke” mean?

In my experience, it is a pejorative used to dismiss an idea. It also seems to imply that the issue is not really a problem, but is only seen as a problem by progressive people who love being offended.

Now, this is obviously not the way Black people in the USA have been using this term for almost a century. But since that particular definition is not confusing, I am ignoring it except as an example of how terms originated by Black people in the USA are often twisted when accepted by “mainstream culture”.

And now it has morphed into a sort of rallying cry for the right. Whoever can accuse the woke mob of being the bad guys will be able to turn this into votes and power.
#15275547
Pants-of-dog wrote:
What does “woke” mean?

In my experience, it is a pejorative used to dismiss an idea. It also seems to imply that the issue is not really a problem, but is only seen as a problem by progressive people who love being offended.

Now, this is obviously not the way Black people in the USA have been using this term for almost a century. But since that particular definition is not confusing, I am ignoring it except as an example of how terms originated by Black people in the USA are often twisted when accepted by “mainstream culture”.

And now it has morphed into a sort of rallying cry for the right. Whoever can accuse the woke mob of being the bad guys will be able to turn this into votes and power.



Woke started out as Black slang that meant an awareness of racism. The Right has to constantly change it's messaging because people figure out what they actually mean.

So, in one of the more profound ironies of this political season, they've adopted it. But, to them, it means anything they don't like. But never forget, the core of it, the dark beating heart, is the seething fear and hatred of racism.
#15275554
Negotiator wrote:Woke is more rightwing than actual rightwingers, far more for authoritarism, censorship etc than the current right wing, so this statement makes no sense.

Woke is the successor of the neoliberal movement. Just like the neoliberal movement it tries to stabilize the system.

In case of the woke movement, they took everything the left stands for, except the main point - the conflict between the rich and the regular people - and dialed them up until it became a parody of the original cause.

For example leftwingers traditionally oppose racism. The woke movement is racist - against whites. Because thats apparently even "better" than being against any racism, no matter against whom.

Political correctness, the idea that you should be tolerant of others and shouldnt insult people for their identity, was parodized into the cancel culture, a movement that literally attempts to destroy peoples lifes if they have a "wrong" opinion.

The ultimate cause of the woke movement is proving than anyone, with any identity, can be part of the priviledged elites. Thus anyone not part of these elites has only himself to blame, not the system.

Thats why the woke movement isnt left, or progressive, at all. It left the core conflict behind and tries to abuse traditional left issues for stabilizing instead of criticizing and improving the current system.

I also dont think its much of an accomplishment to fight the woke movement. They're getting rid of themselves without any outside help.

Besides, Marx was a democrat and would have objected to the soviet union. Calling the worst capitalists of the current world "Marxists" is completely stupid. Marx would have hated these people with a passion.


This presumes you can only be a leftist if you accept Marxist postulates. That's quite evidently not true.

They are also not "neoliberal" (whatever that is supposed to mean), their economic proposals are not quite aligned with either Reaganomics or Thatcherism, their intellectual basis (critical theory) isn't liberal either (even if it is individualist to some extent). In fact, it loosely draws concepts from Hegel and Marx.

Postmodern identity politics is a separate ideological category and we should treat it as such.

Pants-of-dog wrote:What does “woke” mean?

In my experience, it is a pejorative used to dismiss an idea. It also seems to imply that the issue is not really a problem, but is only seen as a problem by progressive people who love being offended.

Now, this is obviously not the way Black people in the USA have been using this term for almost a century. But since that particular definition is not confusing, I am ignoring it except as an example of how terms originated by Black people in the USA are often twisted when accepted by “mainstream culture”.

And now it has morphed into a sort of rallying cry for the right. Whoever can accuse the woke mob of being the bad guys will be able to turn this into votes and power.


Being an asshat has consequences.
#15275561
Potemkin wrote:No, I think @Negotiator has a point. Look at who the Woke brigade actually are. Are they industrial workers? Are they union activists? Are they revolutionary Marxists? No, definitely not. The capitalist system is very good at suborning attempts to undermine or overthrow it. And Woke culture is perfectly compatible with the individualism of neoliberal economic doctrine - just as the marketplace is fragmented and segmented, so the population itself can be fragmented and segmented. There’s a market niche for everyone. Well, everyone except those who oppose neoliberalism or Woke culture, of course. And while we’re distracted by the ‘issue’ of transgender rights, or whatever the Woke cause du jour happens to be, the ruling class are robbing us blind.


No one can take their eyes off the ball of contention. That is bringing down neoliberalism and capitalism gone wild with their destroy the planet and make a profit from human misery, and human disasters. They oppose worker unions, and decent wages and basic security for everyone all over the world. They want plutocracy until the end of time. But they use all these woke bullshit threat crap to distract from what the average voter really needs. Security, decent wages, affordable housing and free or affordable education for their children and college students, student loan forgiveness, and universal medical and dental care. Instead of focusing on real issues they go on about some transgender small percentage of youth and adult people who just want to be acknowledged as fellow human being struggling with some gender identity issues. It is not a bread and butter issue. But the ruling class want to make all that the scapegoat crap along with alien Latinos taking over America and threatening decent rich white peoples' rights.

It is all stupidity and many fall for it.

Stop falling folks for lies and dumbness and manipulation of divide and conquer. Unite and solve some issues for all.

If you don't? DeSantis is going to be a lot more effective than Trump. DeSantis is a Harvard lawyer with a great education, intelligence and focus. His weak part is not really confronting Trump for fear of losing his Far Right supporter base. Attack that weakness and let Trump get tangled up in lawsuits for all time.

Sweep in and get a younger Democratic candidate, purge the Democratic party of Manchin and Sinema Republican leaning wannabes and move forward with aggressive universal health care and other legislation. Remove another 20 congresspeople from the Republican party. PLAY HARDBALL and get it done. If not? The fascists are coming. And they will destroy the country with internal wars and the Pacific Dragon there in the PRC is gonna move in on the kill. Guaranteed.
#15275563
The trouble with the hate politics that Desantis is exploiting is that it causes violence directed towards whatever people are being demonized.

Violence against LGBTQ+ people has increased since attacking trans people and issues have become politically expedient for the right.

Desantis himself has also used these tactics to strip people of civil rights. It has been so successful that self declared centrists support it.
#15275564
Pants-of-dog wrote:What does “woke” mean?

In my experience, it is a pejorative used to dismiss an idea. It also seems to imply that the issue is not really a problem, but is only seen as a problem by progressive people who love being offended.

Now, this is obviously not the way Black people in the USA have been using this term for almost a century. But since that particular definition is not confusing, I am ignoring it except as an example of how terms originated by Black people in the USA are often twisted when accepted by “mainstream culture”.

And now it has morphed into a sort of rallying cry for the right. Whoever can accuse the woke mob of being the bad guys will be able to turn this into votes and power.

Being "woke" used to mean being aware of injustice based on identity politics. Then the left turned it into actions based on identity politics + political correctness.

The problem with DeSantis is that in order to get rid of all wokeness you have to infringe on rights like freedom of speech. The battlefield of ideas should be decided by the people. If Disney wants to be woke let them be woke, and their consumers can support that or not.
#15275566
Unthinking Majority wrote:Being "woke" used to mean being aware of injustice based on identity politics. Then the left turned it into actions based on identity politics + political correctness.

The problem with DeSantis is that in order to get rid of all wokeness you have to infringe on rights like freedom of speech. The battlefield of ideas should be decided by the people. If Disney wants to be woke let them be woke, and their consumers can support that or not.

The Right believes in a free “marketplace of ideas”, so long as it is their ideas being exchanged in the marketplace. Everyone else has to be shut down, of course, because they’re obviously wrong. Lol.
#15275568
Unthinking Majority wrote:Being "woke" used to mean being aware of injustice based on identity politics. Then the left turned it into actions based on identity politics + political correctness.


"Identity politics" and "political correctness" are also buzzwords used as pejoratives against progressives.

This criticism seems vague and probably unrealistic.

The problem with DeSantis is that in order to get rid of all wokeness you have to infringe on rights like freedom of speech. The battlefield of ideas should be decided by the people. If Disney wants to be woke let them be woke, and their consumers can support that or not.


I think Desantis is not concerned with getting rid of "wokeness" since he needs it so desperately.

It seems more like he is targeting"wokeness" in order to solidify and increase hos popularity.
#15275569
Tainari88 wrote:No one can take their eyes off the ball of contention. That is bringing down neoliberalism and capitalism gone wild with their destroy the planet and make a profit from human misery, and human disasters. They oppose worker unions, and decent wages and basic security for everyone all over the world. They want plutocracy until the end of time. But they use all these woke bullshit threat crap to distract from what the average voter really needs. Security, decent wages, affordable housing and free or affordable education for their children and college students, student loan forgiveness, and universal medical and dental care. Instead of focusing on real issues they go on about some transgender small percentage of youth and adult people who just want to be acknowledged as fellow human being struggling with some gender identity issues. It is not a bread and butter issue. But the ruling class want to make all that the scapegoat crap along with alien Latinos taking over America and threatening decent rich white peoples' rights.

It is all stupidity and many fall for it.

Stop falling folks for lies and dumbness and manipulation of divide and conquer. Unite and solve some issues for all.

If you don't? DeSantis is going to be a lot more effective than Trump. DeSantis is a Harvard lawyer with a great education, intelligence and focus. His weak part is not really confronting Trump for fear of losing his Far Right supporter base. Attack that weakness and let Trump get tangled up in lawsuits for all time.

Sweep in and get a younger Democratic candidate, purge the Democratic party of Manchin and Sinema Republican leaning wannabes and move forward with aggressive universal health care and other legislation. Remove another 20 congresspeople from the Republican party. PLAY HARDBALL and get it done. If not? The fascists are coming. And they will destroy the country with internal wars and the Pacific Dragon there in the PRC is gonna move in on the kill. Guaranteed.

Absolutely right. And the USA will have only itself to blame. I think this latest ‘Woke’ movement is largely (though not entirely) a vehicle for virtue-signalling by the middle-classes, who can pose as ‘activists’ at very little personal risk. As such, it has been suborned by the ruling elite as a way of distracting people from the fundamental issue facing American society - the widening class divide and the increasing exploitation of the working class, not to mention the series of catastrophic interventions abroad. Ever since the defeat of the Left in the Anglosphere in the 1980s, the ‘Left’ has gradually pivoted away from political activism based on class conflict and moved over to identity politics, where they are allowed to operate with relative impunity. Organise a strike and they crush you; organise a sit-in for trans rights and they pat you on the back. The ruling class fear the working class and they fear activists and organisers of the working class. They don’t fear gender dysmorphic people and nor do they fear those who agitate on their behalf. The organised working class has the power to change the world. No other group in society has that power, or ever will have that power. And the point, as Marx said, is to change the world.
#15275572
Potemkin wrote:The Right believes in a free “marketplace of ideas”, so long as it is their ideas being exchanged in the marketplace. Everyone else has to be shut down, of course, because they’re obviously wrong. Lol.

Yes. But this is also the same with the left. So many control freaks and tyrants in our society.
#15275573
Unthinking Majority wrote:Yes. But this is also the same with the left. So many control freaks and tyrants in our society.

It’s human nature, @Unthinking Majority. We should look for the good in others and for the evil in ourselves. But most people do the exact opposite. And if you see evil all around you, then it is natural to want to eradicate it. Everyone is a morally upright hero in his or her own mind, doing what has to be done for the good of all humanity. The result is what we see around us.
#15275577
Pants-of-dog wrote:"Identity politics" and "political correctness" are also buzzwords used as pejoratives against progressives.

So is calling Trump a fascist. But labels are useful when criticizing bad ideas. They're also inconvenient to those who believe them and don't like them being criticized.

This criticism seems vague and probably unrealistic.

Your feelings not backed without logic, argument, or evidence are not very useful here.
Last edited by Unthinking Majority on 01 Jun 2023 05:45, edited 1 time in total.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 85

December 11, Monday Oregon ratifies the 13th A[…]

In regards to industrialization, I am trying to ke[…]

Retrospectively looking through history, Trump do[…]

So what are we on nowadays? Did Biden sick the DO[…]