[Potemkin]

I think they need to modernize the English used from Shakespeare's time Pote.

I hardly understand it. Imagine the younger generation? Keep the essence of the meaning of the dialog or literature but update the vocabulary and language. Because it is hundreds of years of evolution and it is dated beyond belief.

I read some of the original scripts of Cervantes times there and of old Spanish and it was difficult to follow. You got to keep it fresh for the youth. Lol.

You think Shakespeare’s bad? Try reading Chaucer.

[wat0n]

Yet we are now playing with the idea of doing something similar - bowdlerising Shakespeare’s texts to remove the ‘naughty bits’ - in Bowdler’s own time, the ‘sexy’ bits, in our own time, the ‘racist’ bits. We now regard Bowdler as a silly Victorian prude. But are we any better, in our own neo-Puritan way?

No, not at all and that's my point: In the future, this will be regarded as a fairly silly stage at best (completely unhinged and damaging one at worst).

[Tainari88]

I am off to Friday movies and pizza over here. I am going to see The Translators. A French flick in French with Spanish subtitles. How could I fail to see a movie about translators eh? Hee hee.

[Potemkin]

No, not at all and that's my point: In the future, this will be regarded as a fairly silly stage at best (completely unhinged and damaging one at worst).

Indeed. Every age has its own moralistic quirks, which later ages laugh at. While committing their own moralistic absurdities. Lol.

People will never give up their urge to signal their virtue to each other.

[Pants-of-dog]

Shakespeare lived in a time before racism, colonialism, and capitalism joined hands to create some of the worst atrocities in history. We are living in the aftermath of that.

Some progressive academics are having classes about that, and how we should look at the art of a society with (modern) racism embedded in it (Europe and all its former and current colonies). Silencing this discussion seems pointless, unless you are Desantis and have Christopher Rufo working with you. In that case, you can label this as “everything wrong with culture today” and ban it.

But again, this is not cancelling Shakespeare. As @wat0n’s link points out, most teachers are still teaching Shakespeare for many reasons and instead pair it with other pieces that contrast it, or look at the original text through a different lens.

Meanwhile, in “the 2021-22 school year PEN America documented 565 books banned in Florida schools. Some were banned permanently, others temporarily pending investigations. The result is the same: Students can’t access books”.

[Godstud]

Having a single differing opinion where you don't think children should have gender altering care like puberty blockers and operations makes you RIGHT WING, in the modern world. One view out of a hundred. There sure won't be many Left Wing people left if the radicals and fanatics have their way.

Some progressive academics are having classes about that, and how we should look at the art of a society with (modern) racism embedded in it (Europe and all its former and current colonies).

Embedded racism is Identity/Race politics rubbish. Acknowledging racism in the past does not mean that we ignore what was created. That's like altering history. History isn't convenient. History isn't politically correct for gender altering post-modern woke ideology.

The view of historical art and such is "problematic" to the Left wing, because historically people weren't "woke", so it needs to be changed for "modern audiences". That's why Cleopatra and Anne Boleyn were made black.

Right wingers banned Shakespeare in Florida(fucking Florida!) because of a Bill taken to the point of absurdity. (Nevermind that historically, men dressed as women in those plays because it was seen as inappropriate for them to and because stage plays at the time were seen as sinful, ungodly, etc., in English theatre. Europeans, of the time, didn't have the same issues.)

We need to call BOTH sides(Right and Left) out on their stupid shit.

[Unthinking Majority]

Let's bring more identity politics into the classroom. Black kids can't relate to Shakespeare because characters with dark skin pigmentation are fundamentally different than ones with lighter skin tones, and vice versa. This is what we're teaching students. Forget the cultural significance of the works, it's all about politics in 2023.

One time in high school I chose to read the novel Frankenstein for class. I didn't choose to read it because it was written by a female, I read it because it seemed interesting and was significant to the genre.

[Fasces]

even if he is at times poking fun.

Quote from your own article. He's poking fun. He has a PhD in Medieval Literature, I don't genuinely believe he's cancelling Shakespeare. In fact, over at the course list at english.ubc.ca Dennis Britton teaches several courses on Shakespeare. Even writing a book on the guy.

He is the author of Becoming Christian: Race, Reformation, and Early Modern English Romance (2014), and has recently co-edited a special issue of the journal Spenser Studies on “Spenser and Race.” He is currently working on two books, Shakespeare and Pity: Feeling Difference on the Early Modern English Stage and Reforming Ethiopia: African-Anglo Relations in Protestant England.

https://english.ubc.ca/profile/dennis-britton/

A fun course vs censuring a teacher for showing David.

Let's bring more identity politics into the classroom. Black kids can't relate to Shakespeare because characters with dark skin

It's an [imaginary] fucking undergraduate and post-grad course.

[Fasces]

Which course cancelled Shakespeare? Please tell me the course ID, based on the descriptions, @wat0n. Full list here: https://english.ubc.ca/courses-archive/2022-winter/

[Fasces]

Fucking absurd outrage merchants, the lot of you.

And the rest of you are ridiculous for taking what the outrage merchants say at face value. The article is from March 2022, and the course list Britton is teaching in 2022 is above. Sensationalist news articles aren't fact. Everyone likes to go on and on about the distortions of mass media until it corroborates your biases and then fuck it.

[wat0n]

Shakespeare lived in a time before racism, colonialism, and capitalism joined hands to create some of the worst atrocities in history. We are living in the aftermath of that.

Some progressive academics are having classes about that, and how we should look at the art of a society with (modern) racism embedded in it (Europe and all its former and current colonies). Silencing this discussion seems pointless, unless you are Desantis and have Christopher Rufo working with you. In that case, you can label this as “everything wrong with culture today” and ban it.

I don't see why wouldn't Shakespeare's society not count as a racist one even under today's views and even if we only stick to institutional racism.

For instance, Britain started participating in the slave trade (firstly, by pirating slave ships from other European powers and selling the slaves in the American colonies - even before they got their first one) in the mid 16th century. All of this was, of course, legal under British law and indeed supporting by the Crown as was the general state-sponsored piracy in the Caribbean at the time (the British were hardly unique in this regard).

But again, this is not cancelling Shakespeare. As @wat0n’s link points out, most teachers are still teaching Shakespeare for many reasons and instead pair it with other pieces that contrast it, or look at the original text through a different lens.

Meanwhile, in “the 2021-22 school year PEN America documented 565 books banned in Florida schools. Some were banned permanently, others temporarily pending investigations. The result is the same: Students can’t access books”.

Just because some teachers are still teaching Shakespeare, like some teachers (outside Florida specially) still teach CRT, doesn't mean Shakespeare wasn't removed for the curriculum for purely ideological reasons. If that doesn't count as cancellation, what does?

@Fasces yeah, all his research was just "poking fun", sure. Well, actually much of humanities research and critical theory itself is a joke even if they don't think they're joking.

Like, for example, those French intellectuals (like Jacques Derrida, Simone De Beauvoir, Jean Paul Sartre, Michel Foucault, Félix Guattari and others) who petitioned for legalizing pedophilia in France didn't think they were joking even if the arguments made in the letter were indeed a rather bad joke.

As for the course, I don't know, ask CBC. I would rate Canadian state media as not untrustworthy.

[Fasces]

yeah, all his research was just "poking fun", sure. Well, actually much of humanities research and critical theory itself is a joke even if they don't think they're joking.

A CBC article about a single course (of which I provided a list with course descriptions, please identify the course that is cancelling Shakespeare, it should be easy!) becomes his entire body of research.

You're absolutely ridiculous.

[wat0n]

A CBC article about a single course (of which I provided a list with course descriptions, please identify the course that is cancelling Shakespeare, it should be easy!) becomes his entire body of research.

You're absolutely ridiculous.

I bet he was joking here too, heh?



From 2021

[Fasces]

I bet he was joking here too, heh?

"Should Shakespeare be cancelled?"

"No, he shouldn't. I am continuing to teach courses on Shakespeare and writing books about him."

The course description is the definition of "teaching both sides" and even that is too much for your lot. You're ridiculous.

[wat0n]

Why would there be a course on cancelling Shakespeare if some weren't for cancelling Shakespeare?

[Fasces]

Some people believe in the Time cube, wat0n.

How does that compare to public policy? I don't know, but I'm sure you'll tell me.

Theater of the fucking absurd.

[Pants-of-dog]

If the only example of cancelling Shakespeare is a course where several plays of his are read and analysed, then Shakespeare is not being cancelled.

Meanwhile, teachers are being fired in Florida for teaching about racism.

[wat0n]

Some people believe in the Time cube, wat0n.

How does that compare to public policy? I don't know, but I'm sure you'll tell me.

Theater of the fucking absurd.

We're discussing whether some have been trying to cancel art.

Curricular decisions are indeed policy, whether you see it as serious or not is up to you but it does seem there are districts that have just removed Shakespeare from their curricula. Thankfully, given how the US works, this isn't (or shouldn't) be such a big deal because if you don't like it you can just move to another one (same goes for curricular decisions to stop teaching CRT by the way).

Simply put, if you don't like to send your kid to schools where they ban Michelangelo's statues because they feature nudity or where they ban To Kill a Mockingbird because racism then fucking don't?

But this doesn't mean it is a completely irrelevant discussion. No, it does point to something more concerning going on if you ask me, even if districts and states in general do have a right to make curricular decisions and fire teachers who don't abide by them, and even if it's completely reasonable to ban teachers from teaching phrenology even if that's what the KKK believes in, creationism instead of evolution in a science class, astrology, climate change denial as a fact, that children can consent to sex at any age in Sex Education class or whatever other nonsense teachers may want to teach - even if some like @Pants-of-dog believe it's an intolerable trampling on the civil rights of teachers to do so. And that concerning thing is more apparent when looking at politicians like DeSantis who successfully use this kind of thing as a strategy to be voted into office.

[Fasces]

We're discussing whether some have been trying to cancel art.

And the answer is no, Dennis Britton isn't trying to cancel Shakespeare.

Simply put, if you don't like to send your kid to schools where they ban Michelangelo's statues because they feature nudity or where they ban To Kill a Mockingbird because racism then fucking don't?

Both are right-wing decisions, not "woke".

You wanted to 'both sides' this shit, so both sides it.

[Pants-of-dog]

The Britton class focusing on Shakespeare is obviously a very weak argument.

And no, there is not a single example of a district removing Shakespeare from the curriculum. All three examples given in @wat0n’s link specify that it is the teacher’s decision to remove Shakespeare.