Russia-Ukraine War 2022 - Page 614 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15275492
Why Do We Call the War in Ukraine Unprovoked? - Debunking Russian Claims

Lot of research and insight, but the shootdown of passenger airliner MH17 in 2014 is not even mentioned.

Begins ~ at 2:23

User avatar
By litwin
#15275493
Szabo wrote:I have to disagree with you here. How is Ukraine more Russian? Ukraine is a democracy and has had six presidents since its founding. Russia (medvedev was and is a drunk puppet) and Belarus have both had just one dictator.

Ukraine's never had this tradition of worshiping its leaders like Russia has.

Ukraine just passed a petition for legalising same sex marriage and has been looking to join the EU for a long time now.

Also, Ukraine doesn't grant as much power to the church as Russia does with its backwards conservatism.

Nevertheless, Ukraine is of course still a long ways off from being qualified to join the EU.



Have you seen this? Posters have been popping up in Belgorod promoting him to be Russia's new president. The posters say:

YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN

A STRONG LEADER
NOT A BUNKERING COWARD

STRENGTH
CONFIDENCE
STABILITY

Image




In Russia, a person is detained for reading in Ukrainian, and yet we have pro-putin members here posting videos of a Ukrainian woman apologising in Russian for stupidly revealing Kiev's air-defence systems, and all the while we still have people talking about oppressed Russian-speakers. Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable.

Kudos to Piers Morgan for admitting that the Iraq invasion was a crime, despite the fact that Saddam's Iraq was twice an aggressor nation, once in Kuwait and once in Iran before it itself was invaded.

#15275497
Szabo wrote:I have to disagree with you here. How is Ukraine more Russian?

Of course you do. However, despite some particular differences Ukrainian society still resembles Russia rather than the West in general, and it won't change overnight. Living in Ukraine is still an Eastern European experience, not a Western one, just like living in Russia (or even Hungary) is.

Szabo wrote:Nevertheless, Ukraine is of course still a long ways off from being qualified to join the EU.

In my opinion Ukrainians shouldn't take their candidate status so seriously for a while because they'll be very much disappointed, disillusioned or even cynical soon. They'll have to make peace and rebuild their country first and then Westernise a whole lot before the joining process actually begins. Just because they've been formally declared a candidate they're still on field 0 or even -1 perhaps on a long bumpy road to membership. The whole country should be transformed for that, which will take at least a decade or two if they ever succeed at all.
Last edited by Beren on 30 May 2023 20:12, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Szabo
#15275505
Beren wrote:Of course you do.


Is that some sort of an insult whereby you're implying that I'd agree out of hand with anything Ukraine's government says or does?

Beren wrote:However, despite some particular differences Ukrainian society still resembles Russia rather than the West in general, and it won't change overnight.


Well, I won't say that you're wrong.

Beren wrote:Living in Ukraine is still an Eastern European experience, not a Western one, just like living in Russia (or even Hungary) is.


You think Hungary is still more similar to Russia than it is to Western Europe? I guess you set the bar really high for what it means to be western.

To me western simply means that you have an elected government and have McDonald's. Haha.

In my opinion Ukrainians shouldn't take their candidate status so seriously for a while...


Pfft. Believe me, nothing makes Ukrainians' eyes' roll as much as the EU question. Normal every day Ukrainian folk are quite pessimistic about it. But of course I'd be most happy to be proven wrong.
#15275525
About joining the EU and hosting a Disney franchise, Beren wrote:In my opinion Ukrainians shouldn't take their candidate status so seriously for a while because they'll be very much disappointed, disillusioned or even cynical soon.

But look how great Afghanistan turned out after all those Western coup d'etats and arms deals.

And imagine how awful Haiti would be right now if it hadn't been for all the Westernisation the country has benefited from in the last two decades.

Afghanistan, Haiti... and now, Ukraine. Western success stories to brag about.
User avatar
By Wels
#15275539
I wonder what happens next ..

After meeting Russian Premier Vladimir Putin, Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko has been taken to hospital in Moscow and is in critical condition.

"While the cause of his declining health is yet to be identified Lukashenko's political rival has now pointed a finger at the Kremlin alleging that the leader has been poisoned."

User avatar
By Beren
#15275541
Szabo wrote:Is that some sort of an insult whereby you're implying that I'd agree out of hand with anything Ukraine's government says or does?

No, I just wasn't surprised.

Szabo wrote:You think Hungary is still more similar to Russia than it is to Western Europe?

Yes, basically. Culturally, socially, and politically speaking we'd fit in Putin's Eurasian Union rather than the EU.

Szabo wrote:To me western simply means that you have an elected government and have McDonald's.

I doubt that's enough for a Western society and a Western way of life.

Szabo wrote:Pfft. Believe me, nothing makes Ukrainians' eyes' roll as much as the EU question. Normal every day Ukrainian folk are quite pessimistic about it. But of course I'd be most happy to be proven wrong.

They shouldn't be pessimistic, they should rather be realistic. It may also matter that they can count on Poland, who can empathise with them and help them a lot during the process.
#15275589
Wels wrote:The mothers going to get their children back from Russia

Remember when the USA Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright, said that the death of 500,000 Iraqi children was "worth it?"

Russia is taking children out of harm's way, while the USA is the leading child-killing nation on the planet for the last 80 years.

And the children the USA has killed often live on the other side of the earth.

***
Zero Hedge wrote:RFK Jr Calls For "Mature Conversation" On Ukraine As Admin Is "Lying To Us"

2024 presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has once again blasted the United States government for lying to the public and to the world about Ukraine, while calling out the Military Industrial Complex in particular.

It's not the first time. Earlier this month an avalanche of mainstream media headlines condemned his take when he told UnHerd the following: "We should have listened to Putin over many years. We made a commitment to Russia, to Gorbachev, that we would not move NATO one inch to the east. Then we went in, and we lied."

More recent speaking engagements wherein he utters unpopular truths on Ukraine have gone viral this week. In one of them, he tells an audience at a campaign event, "Our government is lying to us about it. The media is going on with the lie…It’s a laundering operation for the Military Industrial Complex."...


If Robert Kennedy thinks the conversation is immature in mainstream media, I wonder what he would say about this thread.
#15275628
QatzelOk wrote:Remember when the USA Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright, said that the death of 500,000 Iraqi children was "worth it?"

Russia is taking children out of harm's way, while the USA is the leading child-killing nation on the planet for the last 80 years.

And the children the USA has killed often live on the other side of the earth.

***


If Robert Kennedy thinks the conversation is immature in mainstream media, I wonder what he would say about this thread.


Do tell me how is the US army laundering m777 howitzers or Bradley APCs and other weapons. I assume you want to pay teachers with your old military equipment from storage or something? It would be funny to see this. Mrs Doris please accept your yearly salary with 10 155mm artilery shells, we thank you for your outstanding teaching year.
#15275646
Szabo wrote:Hell isn’t in fire. It’s in the absence of love.

This is quite beautiful, Szabo.

Is it your attempt to post "mature content" in this thread?

If so, I'm sure Robert Kennedy would approve.

Let me try:

If you love someone,
set them free.

If they come back,
they're yours.

If they don't,
they never were.

***

The above poem might apply to Ukraine as well.

"If you love Ukraine, stop coup d'étating their government and using the country to stripmine infrastructure assets for oligarchs, and money-launder using wars against Russia.

If they still want to join the EU, EuroDisney and the Harper Valley PTA association, they're yours.

If they don't, people will stop using US dollars and the USA consumer will take a huge nasty hit in purchasing power."
#15275749
Szabo wrote:Hell isn’t in fire. It’s in the absence of love.


What's French for "I'd Rather be a Muscovite than a Democrat" ?

Not a surprise...




Parliamentary inquiry exposes collusion between French Nazis and Moscow • FRANCE 24 English
#15275887
litwin wrote:Parliamentary inquiry exposes collusion between French Nazis and Moscow • FRANCE 24 English


So, in your informed view, Marine LePen is a Nazi?

I guess Brexit is death, and You are Charlie, as well?

Is there any (corrupt to the core) government-sponsored trend that you don't follow, litwin?
By late
#15275906
litwin wrote:
What's French for "I'd Rather be a Muscovite than a Democrat" ?



Sorry, but, Democrats are a party. You should use a small d when discussing democracy.
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