[noemon]

John Rawls is right. The membership meant nothing when it came to putting crosses on paper. I make no claims for the veracity of the story that a lot of Tory voters joined the Labour Party on purpose to get corbyn elected as leader, then left once mission accomplished.

Seriously, what are you on about?

Corbyn won the highest share any party has won in decades, even the Tories. It took a combination of things to beat Corbyn's Labour, namely Brexit and Johnson rallying the racists against immigrants, Farage himself throwing his weight behind Johnson, the "anti-semitic" nonsense as well as the entire establishment fighting against Corbyn as well as 12 years of Tories micromanaging the electoral process and redrawing electoral maps that suit them in the fptp system.

Fact is the Tories have a lot more antisemites and racists in their ranks than Labour. Nowhere near close actually.

Corbyn won more votes than the Tories received in any election the past 2 decades of them being in government!?!

[snapdragon]

What am I on about? The bottom line is corbyn lost Labour two elections against two of the worst prime ministers I’ve known in my lifetime.

Whatever you might claim about 2019, Labour were wiped out. Their voter share slumped during the 2019 election. I think to the lowest since the war, though I need to check that.

That was corbyn’s doing.

[Rich]

What am I on about? The bottom line is corbyn lost Labour two elections against two of the worst prime ministers I’ve known in my lifetime.

Whatever you might claim about 2019, Labour were wiped out. Their voter share slumped during the 2019 election. I think to the lowest since the war, though I need to check that.

That was corbyn’s doing.

In part, but in large part, it was Starmer's doing. Starmer deliberately abandoned the moderate Brexit and moderate remainer vote in order to move into Liberal Democrat territory. Starmer's strategy was designed to choke off the Liberal Democrat revival and stop its emergence as the party of Europe. Many Working class voters liked the fact that Corbyn was not a hard line remainer. Starmer is the ultimate establishment safe pair of hands. The man who kept the lid on the Jimmy Saville scandal. His first job was to keep Corbyn out of number 10, his second to contain the Liberal Democrats and protect the two party system.

[Beren]

In part, but in large part, it was Starmer's doing. His first job was to keep Corbyn out of number 10, his second to contain the Liberal Democrats and protect the two party system.

Starmer was marginalised during Brexit and especially in the 2019 election, so it'd be too hard for anyone but anti-Liberals like you and Corbyn-fans like Mr. Cheka and Ms. Komsomol to blame him for the final electoral collapse of Labour. Labour kept themselves out of power with Corbyn, who was actually unelectable for various reasons despite him successfully having mobilised the leftist base.

[JohnRawls]

@skinster
@ingliz

[skinster]

Opposition grows to Starmer’s block on Corbyn as 70,000 make their voice heard

What am I on about? The bottom line is corbyn lost Labour two elections against two of the worst prime ministers I’ve known in my lifetime.

That is not the bottom line. The bottom line is Labour lost under Corbyn for the things noemon pointed out:

It took a combination of things to beat Corbyn's Labour, namely Brexit and Johnson rallying the racists against immigrants, Farage himself throwing his weight behind Johnson, the "anti-semitic" nonsense as well as the entire establishment fighting against Corbyn as well as 12 years of Tories micromanaging the electoral process and redrawing electoral maps that suit them in the fptp system.

There was a massive campaign against Corbyn and those who supported him coming from all directions, aside from the things noemon mentioned, ex CIA director and then Secretary of State Mike Pompeo threatened to "push back" against a Corbyn election (I'm talking about the U.S. government at the time threatening the U.K. Labour party, if it isn't clear), all major newspapers were attacking him daily the Zionist lobbies were vicious, the right of the party had plans of "stabbing" Corbyn "in the back and front" and did you miss The Labour Files which detailed some of that insanity?

And despite all these things and more, Labour were successful as far as numbers and support for Corbyn leading. Yes of course Labour didn't win the election in 2019 against the Tories, but you can't talk about that while ignoring all this other stuff which explains why Labour lost. Because that's bullshit.

[snapdragon]

https://labourtogether.uk/report/genera ... eview-2019


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... e-election

You'll no doubt carry on making excuses for Corbyn, but it was down to him.

He was a rotten leader.

[ingliz]

@snapdragon

The Guardian is a Lib-Dem mouthpiece. It's not a neutral observer. It's not even particularly left-wing. Of course, it was going to bash Corbyn at every opportunity.

[snapdragon]

If you’d bothered to actually click on the links, you’d know the first is to Labour together and the second is to Kate proctor, the political editor of politics at home.

She gives a very fair analysis. Take it or leave it, I don’t care.

You obviously prefer skinster’s Twitter links . Up to you, but don’t just troll. I don’t feed trolls.

[ingliz]

politics at home

The Merit Group plc is a British publishing holding company founded in 2001. Its largest shareholder/owner is the Conservative politician and businessman Lord Michael Ashcroft.

[Rich]

So what on earth is going on with the case of Comrade Schofield, or should that be the renegade Schofield? I'm totally mystified as to what this is about.

[Rich]

I loved this quote from the Spectator on Liz Truss

One part Reagan to four parts Chávez.

In my view the energy subsidies were an absolute abomination. And Truss presents herself as free market hero. Truss was much worse than the Gracchi, who themselves are rarely lauded as free market paragons. Under the Gracchi the citizen only got a fixed amount of subsidised grain, where as under Truss's policy the more energy you use the more the subsidy.

I oppose energy subsidies, if you want to help people with the cost of living crisis put money directly into people's pockets (OR bank accounts), preferably as part of the start of a national basic income. But I also oppose Net Zero madness which in Britain should be called "Cuck Zero." We need to start taking Global Warming seriously, which in Britain means we need a massive rollout of air conditioning, to catch up with Europe and America.

[ingliz]

Labour together

Labour Together are the lying little shits Blairite faction within the party that went out of its way to ensure Labour lost the 2019 election by making mountains out of molehills, organising the Chicken Coup in 2016, and hostile briefing party policy to Conservative-leaning newspapers and anyone else who would listen.

[Rich]

I haven't even been a Tory voter, let alone having prior inside knowledge of Sunak's announcement. But it seems that Sunak is making a stand against Cuck Zero. He's been making a much more comprehensive explanation of what I was talking about in my previous post in this thread.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-66863110

[noemon]

I'm listening to it now.

Well done Sunak.

Fuck electric cars & fuck heat pumps. They are a con.

Now that it's been pushed to 2035 I am expecting another announcement at 2028 that banning petrol cars in 2035 has been scrapped altogether.

The EU will do it first.

[skinster]

Ha, good move from the Tory midget insofar as getting people onside. That'll likely secure them another win in the next election, alongside that time of him recently getting caught laughing at gender bollocks.

I actually prefer them in than the other rightwing party, Labour in name only.