I Reject, I Affirm. ''Raising the Black Flag'' in an Age of Devilry. - Page 74 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15276228
Potemkin wrote:There is not and has never been an absolute right to strike. We are, after all, living in a capitalist society, under laws created by and for the capitalist class. The Teamsters Union should have been aware of this fact, and acted accordingly. The Teamsters are not, after all, revolutionary communists. The employers have a legal right not to have their property wilfully destroyed, just as the workers have a legal right to withdraw their labour power if they so wish. This legalistic balance between the workers and their employer is essentially what Marx called “bourgeois right” and would of course be rejected by any revolutionary Marxist, as it is based on the idea that the workers and their employer both freely entered into a legal contract and ignores the actual and inevitable power imbalance between the parties. But most of the striking workers are not revolutionary Marxists, and neither are the leaders of the Teamsters Union. Given this fact, the refusal of the Teamsters to allow the cement trucks to complete their deliveries before going on strike seems to have been motivated by little more than petty spite. They should have expected to experience some legal difficulties as a consequence. And if they’re not happy with that, then they should draw the appropriate conclusions and go over to the cause of revolutionary communism. Because without a revolution, the employers will always have the law on their side. It is naive to think otherwise. Democratic socialism is impossible within the framework of the capitalist mode of production; at best, you will have what Marx called “bourgeois right”, which you call “legal positivism”.


@Potemkin , @Tainari88 , @noemon , @Wellsy , and others here my friends:

I want to thank everyone for their commentary, truly.

@Potemkin :

I truly am a Socialist, I guess because I've seen too much myself. I've no illusions about any true progress in this world it has always come by way of compulsion . " Tough love", if you will.

For me then I understand that the law protects the wealthy and the powerful, that in this day and age there is little jurisprudential reference to natural law or divine law anymore. Of course I don't believe in natural law either, as it's a reflection of the divine law which I do believe in. The legal positivists have all but won.

But there's still love, and virtue is it's own reward for those for whom government means little because they don't need it, having conquered their own self lawlessness, yet submit to government nonetheless. To command one must obey.

In any case, love. If we truly loved one another, truly formed a true society in the world, we'd have Socialism tomorrow. It wouldn't change human nature, but it would be a good part of a better life, like the toothbrush, electricity, and indoor plumbing. And perhaps we might lose those things someday if we don't adopt Socialism.
#15276229
annatar1914 wrote:In any case, love. If we truly loved one another, truly formed a true society in the world, we'd have Socialism tomorrow. It wouldn't change human nature, but it would be a good part of a better life, like the toothbrush, electricity, and indoor plumbing. And perhaps we might lose those things someday if we don't adopt Socialism.

This resonates with me but how I would label it would be solidarity as opposed as love. But I feel the same sentiment. And as such I am inspired by small acts of kindness and efforts to just do what is right where you can.
#15276265
Wellsy wrote:This resonates with me but how I would label it would be solidarity as opposed as love. But I feel the same sentiment. And as such I am inspired by small acts of kindness and efforts to just do what is right where you can.


People have much better and efficient ways of communicating with one another. Soon I think there will be AI for translating all human languages with really sophisticated modes of doing it. Once we all understand and communicate with one another? We got to work on moral and ethical standards of spreading information and categorizing information and data analysis with the goal of scientific and morally based standards that make decisions about war, power relationships and class categories much more just and ethical.

If we do that? A huge leap in advancement on all fronts. We will have a cohesive huge international society that is capable of a rich and complex and diverse options for a response to crisis and to scarcity. It is the guarantee for a future that is survivable. We can disarm the nukes and do everything else that is needed. But not without being moral and ethical, and being able to communicate in all languages well.

If we allow xenophobia, fear of the other, hatred of diversity, and love of dominating nature and exploiting each other and nature? We will be slated for extinction. Rightfully so. We failed to match our technology with our ethical and communicative abilities. We failed to adapt in time. All species who fail in that? Are gone in a very efficient and fast manner in this world. The world is not going to wait for us to do the right thing. We need to do the right thing before we run out of the window of time for adaptation that is shown to us.

The entire concept of God has to do with relying on a power greater than us. To know we do not control this world. And if we do something worthwhile it is because the greater world controlled by a force we do not own or dominate allows it.

If we continue in hubris mentality we spell our own destiny in extinction. Because hubris is about ignorance of limits.
#15276996
Wellsy wrote:This resonates with me but how I would label it would be solidarity as opposed as love. But I feel the same sentiment. And as such I am inspired by small acts of kindness and efforts to just do what is right where you can.


@Wellsy :

Solidarity, Sobornost, Love.

It's all the same. Trust is mistaken as Fatalism , Determinism and Predestination is seen as a violation of the autonomous Will: which nonetheless doesn't exist. Once you see that cooperation and consensus is the reality of the Good, and competition and predation is the reality of the Evil, then there can only be Love which remains. The evil are not beings who became evil: they were evil, and by evil acts expressed their being, or rather non-being. The Good are the same, unless motivated to be otherwise from Above.

Seeing one another as being real insofar as being ontologically the same, how could one NOT love each other as we love ourselves?

The reality of the good versus the evil within Humanity is by analogy a kind of " Speciation event", and History the deterministic bifurcation of the two realms. Two realms of differing ontological substances: Death, and Life. And Love and Life are the same.

He got at least this right, even if not the emphasis:

https://academyofideas.com/2013/10/niet ... -fatalism/
#15277829
annatar1914 wrote:@Wellsy :

Solidarity, Sobornost, Love.

It's all the same. Trust is mistaken as Fatalism , Determinism and Predestination is seen as a violation of the autonomous Will: which nonetheless doesn't exist. Once you see that cooperation and consensus is the reality of the Good, and competition and predation is the reality of the Evil, then there can only be Love which remains. The evil are not beings who became evil: they were evil, and by evil acts expressed their being, or rather non-being. The Good are the same, unless motivated to be otherwise from Above.

Seeing one another as being real insofar as being ontologically the same, how could one NOT love each other as we love ourselves?

The reality of the good versus the evil within Humanity is by analogy a kind of " Speciation event", and History the deterministic bifurcation of the two realms. Two realms of differing ontological substances: Death, and Life. And Love and Life are the same.

He got at least this right, even if not the emphasis:

https://academyofideas.com/2013/10/niet ... -fatalism/


So, in Death we find the Kingdom of the Devil.

So what's he like, anyway? Is he like Milton's Lucifer, suave and excellent in his infernal grandeur? Dante's immobile gnawer? Close to these somewhat I think but still not quite there.

Well about the Devil, he's a liar and a murderer, indeed the father of these things. As contrary as they are to existence, they too are something substantive, a " counter-vital" force if you will, against the teachings of those scholastic thinkers who posit evil as being not something, but either a lack or an excess of something. That would mean just a few slight adjustments to Creation, and everything would be just as right as rain, wouldn't it?

Would it?

I say rather, that some things will be removed not reconstructed. But back to the Devil.

When I think of him, by analogy I think of the poisonous banality and stupidity of smoking tobacco, the " Devil's Incense". It almost says everything about him, doesn't it?
#15278480
@Potemkin , @Political Interest , @Verv :

I'm struck by the immodesty and the near complete absence of shame or honor, nor guilt and sin, in social collective modern life. People raise up clashing and immodestly external patterns in inverse proportion to their own soullessness it seems. " I am shored up against the ruins", to borrow from T.S. Elliott. A plethora of astonishingly ugly tattoos and gauges and piercings shavings and cuttings, bleaching and darkening and coloring, and scarification and artificial augmentation everywhere, but also a distinct lack of decency in clothing even regardless of any real relationship with the true, the good, but especially with the beautiful....

External signs of an inner reality. And all so very Poshlost. Seedy, grossly materialistic and sensual, and exceedingly stupid.

My rule of thumb ideally is this: if I cannot see Our Lord and/or His Mother or Apostles in or with it, then it's not really good.
#15279775
@Potemkin , @Political Interest , and @Verv , other friends here:

One might notice that a good deal of the time I'm " one step forwards and two steps back" in my thematic presentation of my thoughts on this thread, questions, demonstrations...

That's because while the core essence of my thinking and beliefs are traditional and even pre modern in expression, I understand that this is a significantly different age we live in, and many people are not psychologically or mentally prepared for the changes that are believed to be coming if not imminent.

" Space, the final frontier..." Aliens, Extraterrestrial life and civilization on other worlds. It is generally believed by those invested in Western Modernity that we will eventually live with these concepts not as fantasies but as realities. That one can assume that when and maybe seemingly if these ideas are concretized as facts, as truth, people will be quite at sea internally, if they aren't already. Such are just some of the cosmological consequences.

So I spoke at great length of the future trajectory of Western Civilization, and mentioned also at length about religions like "Mormonism" and the " Palmarian Catholic Church". Partly because these religions had adapted to modernity and have a certain explanatory power that will enable them to survive and thrive when other beliefs will not.

Politics as I've heard it said is downstream of culture, and indeed culture as an expression of spiritual answers is generated by religion which is a collective answer to individual questions of ultimate universal concern.

So these specific religious systems, aside from their relevance as to the matter of their truth, also have relevance as having " foresight" as well with their depiction of other worlds and beings from those worlds.

Is Modernity (which includes space age notions)an acquired state of mind and collective worldview based on realities, or is it forced upon the collective consciousness? Founders of religions that bet on certain outcomes having an external reality: bold gamblers, or receivers of information from beyond?
#15279849
annatar1914 wrote:@Potemkin , @Political Interest , and @Verv , other friends here:

One might notice that a good deal of the time I'm " one step forwards and two steps back" in my thematic presentation of my thoughts on this thread, questions, demonstrations...

That's because while the core essence of my thinking and beliefs are traditional and even pre modern in expression, I understand that this is a significantly different age we live in, and many people are not psychologically or mentally prepared for the changes that are believed to be coming if not imminent.

" Space, the final frontier..." Aliens, Extraterrestrial life and civilization on other worlds. It is generally believed by those invested in Western Modernity that we will eventually live with these concepts not as fantasies but as realities. That one can assume that when and maybe seemingly if these ideas are concretized as facts, as truth, people will be quite at sea internally, if they aren't already. Such are just some of the cosmological consequences.

So I spoke at great length of the future trajectory of Western Civilization, and mentioned also at length about religions like "Mormonism" and the " Palmarian Catholic Church". Partly because these religions had adapted to modernity and have a certain explanatory power that will enable them to survive and thrive when other beliefs will not.

Politics as I've heard it said is downstream of culture, and indeed culture as an expression of spiritual answers is generated by religion which is a collective answer to individual questions of ultimate universal concern.

So these specific religious systems, aside from their relevance as to the matter of their truth, also have relevance as having " foresight" as well with their depiction of other worlds and beings from those worlds.

Is Modernity (which includes space age notions)an acquired state of mind and collective worldview based on realities, or is it forced upon the collective consciousness? Founders of religions that bet on certain outcomes having an external reality: bold gamblers, or receivers of information from beyond?


@Potemkin , @Godstud , @Political Interest , @Verv , and others of my friends and interlocutors:

So my previous post shows a world on the horns of a dilemma, where a significant absorbing of a Westernized worldview is precisely the infusion of Scientism into the everyday thinking via education and mass media. Not a question of doubting the cosmology here at this time and place on my part, just noting a process of development at work: the birth of what is called in a non self-aware manner, the " Global civilization".

This education is something that religion can be reactive to, tacking it all on to what it teaches and bearing the contradictions between that religion and the ideology of Modernity. Or they can deny Modernism to a greater or lesser degree. Or, they can make the tenets of Modernity the starting point for their own expression of their religion, regardless of whether their acceptance of Modernity is fully complete or otherwise.

So I noted that both my examples of Mormonism and Palmarian Catholicism are the only significant non " New Age" cosmological systems made after the Copernican revolution:

Joseph Smith flat out accepts worlds to be colonized by the children of " gods" who then become gods themselves, Earth not even necessarily all that important to the universal civilization at large, rejecting evolution of humans except humans to gods ( if they follow Mormonism), while the Palmarian cosmology is entirely modern yet still makes Earth the theological center of the universal drama and rejects the theory of evolution.

The central premise of Modernity being the Copernican cosmology, evolution being secondary to the Modernist zeitgeist.

Perhaps needless to say, these religions expect beings of humanoid form to see and be seen by Earthlings, humans after a fashion. Yet while these interactions need not be on a mass scale to be verified, it has been claimed to have happened: the apparitions of Fatima Portugal and so forth interpreted by Palmarians and others for example. It is understood by these religions at least implicitly that these interactions will increase and become more certain in the minds of others.

IF that is the case, and regardless otherwise of the actual truth of the matter, these religions or perhaps only one depending on the nature of the otherworldly phenomena, will be the ones that expand and will be increasingly followed and believed in. Deception on a mass scale in my opinion for which Modernity in hindsight then was only a preparatory phase.

Edit: want to note too for purposes of this thread, that questions of Scientific and Philosophical Epistemology need not apply, just for me to state personally that one cannot know for certain what is scientifically factual as long as whatever conjecture about a set of facts " saves the appearances" or not. Beyond this, another kind of science would be needful to explain a phenomena

I'll also say that I believe that particular phenomena will increasingly be part of our living worldly experience, without endorsement on my part of a narrative framing of events, particularly by the powers that be
#15279866
annatar1914 wrote:@Potemkin , @Godstud , @Political Interest , @Verv , and others of my friends and interlocutors:

So my previous post shows a world on the horns of a dilemma, where a significant absorbing of a Westernized worldview is precisely the infusion of Scientism into the everyday thinking via education and mass media. Not a question of doubting the cosmology here at this time and place on my part, just noting a process of development at work: the birth of what is called in a non self-aware manner, the " Global civilization".

This education is something that religion can be reactive to, tacking it all on to what it teaches and bearing the contradictions between that religion and the ideology of Modernity. Or they can deny Modernism to a greater or lesser degree. Or, they can make the tenets of Modernity the starting point for their own expression of their religion, regardless of whether their acceptance of Modernity is fully complete or otherwise.

So I noted that both my examples of Mormonism and Palmarian Catholicism are the only significant non " New Age" cosmological systems made after the Copernican revolution:

Joseph Smith flat out accepts worlds to be colonized by the children of " gods" who then become gods themselves, Earth not even necessarily all that important to the universal civilization at large, rejecting evolution of humans except humans to gods ( if they follow Mormonism), while the Palmarian cosmology is entirely modern yet still makes Earth the theological center of the universal drama and rejects the theory of evolution.

The central premise of Modernity being the Copernican cosmology, evolution being secondary to the Modernist zeitgeist.

Perhaps needless to say, these religions expect beings of humanoid form to see and be seen by Earthlings, humans after a fashion. Yet while these interactions need not be on a mass scale to be verified, it has been claimed to have happened: the apparitions of Fatima Portugal and so forth interpreted by Palmarians and others for example. It is understood by these religions at least implicitly that these interactions will increase and become more certain in the minds of others.

IF that is the case, and regardless otherwise of the actual truth of the matter, these religions or perhaps only one depending on the nature of the otherworldly phenomena, will be the ones that expand and will be increasingly followed and believed in. Deception on a mass scale in my opinion for which Modernity in hindsight then was only a preparatory phase.

Edit: want to note too for purposes of this thread, that questions of Scientific and Philosophical Epistemology need not apply, just for me to state personally that one cannot know for certain what is scientifically factual as long as whatever conjecture about a set of facts " saves the appearances" or not. Beyond this, another kind of science would be needful to explain a phenomena

I'll also say that I believe that particular phenomena will increasingly be part of our living worldly experience, without endorsement on my part of a narrative framing of events, particularly by the powers that be


@Potemkin , @Godstud , @Political Interest , and @Verv , and others:

The third part, or Triptych of the picture I'm painting here, is Americanization of the World, and how that relates to the religion or religions of the future. Another post will tie it all together.

The West prior to 1492 AD and after 1054 AD was " American" before the Americas were ever discovered. Crusades proceeded Colonization, and were an ongoing concern not merely in the Islamic world, confronting that world, but also in Eastern Europe. Christopher Columbus (who the Palmarians canonized a saint) merely expanded the scope of their activities.

But in the Americas, the West could be fully what it was becoming, free from interference, and spread that to the rest of the world. And I don't mean political systems either, but Modernity as a whole way of being, a religion in fact. Modernity and the West can appear quite reactionary on the surface level, but it is the ideas. of the Papacy and of the notion of the alleged organic but " spiritual" evolutionary development of doctrine that is the heart of the West and indeed of Modernity, the beginning of the " Scientism" mentioned before. It is not found among any other human beings, these ideas are unique. Every other Western notion secular or otherwise transfers these ideas and unfolds them and democratized them and applies them universally in every sphere of human thought or activity.
#15280053
@Political Interest , @Potemkin , @Godstud , @Verv :

So this post returns dialectically to where I started recently, with what I interpret as a bifurcation point in human history, a kind of ontological speciation event seemingly without previous precedent.

People are going to create the social systems that enable them to live in the way they seem fit, and from there, the religion and cosmology and cultural matrix that best reflects that aggregate of collective personal spiritual and moral choices.

So a wicked society cannot be expected to get any of that right: wicked trees don't produce good fruits. If it's wrong it's pretty much wrong about everything. People make category errors in their perception of reality because it's thought easier to do so as time goes on.

But even a wicked society will realize collectively that something is wrong, that the problem can be solved whatever it is with the proper application of force or fraud and strengthening of the government and greater societal discipline and social regimentation. Instead of turning to the Truth it doubles down on the very things that have led to ruin so far.

So I see three important " nodes" of change in the not too distant future: Islam, " counter Islam", and Orthodox Christianity. Or to use some Magian or Islamic parlance: Islam, the Franks, and the Romans.

The Frankish or Counter Islamic world is the same as the Western world, the Modern, the Faustian, that has developed in increasing contrast and competition with Orthodoxy but even more so, against Islam. The primary religion of the West has not yet until fairly recently developed to provide a true antithesis to Islam. Having done so it will increasingly triumph and conquer firstly and completely in the Western world. You might say that this began roughly on 9-11-01 but will take a little bit more time to be apparent.

What will prove decisive will be in the realm of what I spoke of as the modern phenomena: seeming extraterrestrial life and intelligence/civilization, UFOs and Aliens.

That's what the whole thread is about, the whole thing: dueling visions of the Cosmos and seeing the world around and within us: what will many be led to believe, and for what reasons, allegedly?

Edit: for increasingly Western elites are convinced and/or trying to convince the world of certain " facts"; that UFOs and UAPs are an ubiquitous phenomena that appear representative of advanced extraterrestrial alien civilizations. Those who have answers, even if wrong ones, establish the collective worldview of a society:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech ... water.html
#15280370
annatar1914 wrote:@Political Interest , @Potemkin , @Godstud , @Verv :

So this post returns dialectically to where I started recently, with what I interpret as a bifurcation point in human history, a kind of ontological speciation event seemingly without previous precedent.

People are going to create the social systems that enable them to live in the way they seem fit, and from there, the religion and cosmology and cultural matrix that best reflects that aggregate of collective personal spiritual and moral choices.

So a wicked society cannot be expected to get any of that right: wicked trees don't produce good fruits. If it's wrong it's pretty much wrong about everything. People make category errors in their perception of reality because it's thought easier to do so as time goes on.

But even a wicked society will realize collectively that something is wrong, that the problem can be solved whatever it is with the proper application of force or fraud and strengthening of the government and greater societal discipline and social regimentation. Instead of turning to the Truth it doubles down on the very things that have led to ruin so far.

So I see three important " nodes" of change in the not too distant future: Islam, " counter Islam", and Orthodox Christianity. Or to use some Magian or Islamic parlance: Islam, the Franks, and the Romans.

The Frankish or Counter Islamic world is the same as the Western world, the Modern, the Faustian, that has developed in increasing contrast and competition with Orthodoxy but even more so, against Islam. The primary religion of the West has not yet until fairly recently developed to provide a true antithesis to Islam. Having done so it will increasingly triumph and conquer firstly and completely in the Western world. You might say that this began roughly on 9-11-01 but will take a little bit more time to be apparent.

What will prove decisive will be in the realm of what I spoke of as the modern phenomena: seeming extraterrestrial life and intelligence/civilization, UFOs and Aliens.

That's what the whole thread is about, the whole thing: dueling visions of the Cosmos and seeing the world around and within us: what will many be led to believe, and for what reasons, allegedly?

Edit: for increasingly Western elites are convinced and/or trying to convince the world of certain " facts"; that UFOs and UAPs are an ubiquitous phenomena that appear representative of advanced extraterrestrial alien civilizations. Those who have answers, even if wrong ones, establish the collective worldview of a society:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech ... water.html


@Political Interest , @Potemkin , @Verv , and others:

When I'm wrong or not quite accurate about something when discussing a system of beliefs, I try to be honest and correct that.

Because in discussing the UAP/UFO phenomena in the context of monotheistic religious faith while noting the modern Western view that is being pushed, and the importance of this phenomena, Islam easily handles it's perception of the phenomena with the stories of the Jinn in the Koran and the Hadiths. These beings are said to share this world with us, many are bad some are good.

This is one other way of looking at the phenomena besides reaching for an " exterrestrial alien" explanation, that other beings are known and have been on this world from the start, it's their home as well.

As the modern age goes on, it's certain that people will be in a state of " ontological shock": who are we? What is our place in the universe? And our religious answers, our interpretive narrative frame, will be tested as never before by modernity because it will ( being a religion itself!) have it's set of answers that are at least as old as the speculations of Giordano Bruno and his infinite suns with infinite worlds idea. Or did we forget that the Copernican Revolution was an actual Revolution, the first since the fall of the Angels in fact?
#15280381
annatar1914 wrote:As the modern age goes on, it's certain that people will be in a state of " ontological shock": who are we? What is our place in the universe?

Part of the problem is that so many Liberals are pathological liars. This includes scientists. So most scientists will say that they believe in the Big Bang theory. The Big Bang theory states that we exist in incredibly special position in space time. But at the same time they will say they believe in the Copernican principle that we don't live in a special place. Probably a lot of people don't realise that Copernicus himself didn't believe in the Copernican principle.
#15280384
Rich wrote:Part of the problem is that so many Liberals are pathological liars. This includes scientists. So most scientists will say that they believe in the Big Bang theory. The Big Bang theory states that we exist in incredibly special position in space time. But at the same time they will say they believe in the Copernican principle that we don't live in a special place. Probably a lot of people don't realise that Copernicus himself didn't believe in the Copernican principle.


@Rich :

Well said sir

The saying goes that: " figures don't lie, but liars do figure", and that sad truth remains. And that's without getting into the real story of the Lorenz transformation equations and the Michaelson-Moreley Interferometer experiments, Airy, Fizzeau, Sagnac, Di Palma experiments, redshift spheres, and so on.

Without getting into that tangent, at least at the moment.

Because I'm discussing not so much just the truth or falsehood of what people believe, but how these beliefs inform a society regardless. And then I get into the theological consequences of such cosmology and the eschatological dimension of the Modern.

Because at some point the beings encountered in the " space age" by mankind will speak if they haven't already, and things will get very confusing for many people.

Edit: because for one thing, let's be honest, the world powers the elites of mankind that are Moderns are afraid of this:

https://youtube.com/shorts/at0QtUJYI_A?feature=share


https://m.jpost.com/omg/article-730264

But it has a huge number of previous assumptions leading up to that scenario, over 500 years worth.
#15280432
Rich wrote:The Big Bang theory states that we exist in incredibly special position in space time.
No. It does not.

The Big Bang Theory is the leading explanation for how the universe began. Simply put, it says the universe as we know it started with an infinitely hot and dense single point that inflated and stretched — first at unimaginable speeds, and then at a more measurable rate — over the next 13.7 billion years to the still-expanding cosmos that we know today.
https://www.space.com/25126-big-bang-theory.html

We are where we are and it is not in an incredibly special position in space time. People make that stuff up and it has nothing to do with the the Big Bang Theory.
#15280454
Godstud wrote:No. It does not.

We are where we are and it is not in an incredibly special position in space time. People make that stuff up and it has nothing to do with the the Big Bang Theory.

The current Big Bang theory says that the universe will go on expanding for trillions of trillions of trillions of years. Even if we look to a mere one trillion years after Big Bang, still a very special position in space time, still a very privileged position in space, things will be very very different from now. Even if intelligent life is still supportable, which is highly questionable, they will not be able to see anything outside of their local galaxy group. They will not be able to see a Quasar, the most magnificent and the (sustained) brightest objects in the universe. They will not be able to see the cosmic micro wave back ground. They will not be able to see a star like our Sun in its main sequence, let alone a star (or Star binary to be precise) like Sirius.

No according to the current Big Bang theory we live in a very special position in space time of low entropy.
#15280525
@Godstud , @Rich @Potemkin @Political Interest , and @Verv :

In any case, what's important right now is that again, the modern cosmological system has effects far downstream from just natural scientific philosophy and that cannot be eradicated easily as long as that cosmological system saves the appearances.

I would add furthermore that even if the modern cosmological system did not fit the observable and repeatable facts, there is a significant part of the modern population that would emotionally resist changing their worldview anyway.

Everyone " knows" that there are other beings in the cosmos. We will interact with them and most likely always have on some level.

BUT....

One's view of the universe will greatly determine one's reaction to these beings as far as categorizing who and what these beings are. What will THEY COMMUNICATE about the nature of reality and the universe?

Have They already been communicating in some fashion with us, and been doing so for some time? Will it be true either?

Most spiritual figures have been most hesitant to say anything about this issue in the modern and " space age" era and are merely reactive to what the new scientific priesthood say and then perhaps grudgingly or not repeating it. But to get out ahead of it is something else entirely.

That's what I have really been talking about for some time.
#15280596
We live in an Age where how you feel and what you feel is more important than reality, and it'll support your delusions if it makes you feel good. It's a hedonistic ideology that's destroying our Western societies from within. Instead of teaching self control and self discipline, we teach people to embrace their stupidity and feelings, no matter how delusional or unrealistic that they are.

You aren't a man or woman. You are anything you pretend to be. If someone says otherwise, then they are a bigot, racist, transphobe, Nazi, and are cancelled by a society that is brainwashed into following this new ideology.

It's an ideology of child grooming, and teaching a new generation to be depraved and self-indulgent. Science and biology take a back seat to indulging in your feelings, no matter how trivial or fleeting they might be. Damn potential side effects or how it might affect your future! Do it now! "We'll" help you change to be whatever you feel you are. It doesn't matter how stupid it is, we'll affirm it.

I understand why it's the Age of Devilry, @annatar1914. It's all around us.
#15280626
Godstud wrote:We live in an Age where how you feel and what you feel is more important than reality, and it'll support your delusions if it makes you feel good. It's a hedonistic ideology that's destroying our Western societies from within. Instead of teaching self control and self discipline, we teach people to embrace their stupidity and feelings, no matter how delusional or unrealistic that they are.

You aren't a man or woman. You are anything you pretend to be. If someone says otherwise, then they are a bigot, racist, transphobe, Nazi, and are cancelled by a society that is brainwashed into following this new ideology.

It's an ideology of child grooming, and teaching a new generation to be depraved and self-indulgent. Science and biology take a back seat to indulging in your feelings, no matter how trivial or fleeting they might be. Damn potential side effects or how it might affect your future! Do it now! "We'll" help you change to be whatever you feel you are. It doesn't matter how stupid it is, we'll affirm it.

I understand why it's the Age of Devilry, @annatar1914. It's all around us.

In an important sense, ‘Devilry’ is the refusal to recognise limits, whether those limits are legal, ethical or even biological. It ties in with what @annatar1914 refers to as ‘Faustian’ civilisations, which have the urge, the drive, to transcend all limits, to make humans into gods. This involves a perpetual state of rebellion against the natural world and against God, which by their very nature impose limits on us.
#15280644
I find that Christians, kvetching about cosmology, seem to have decided that God is either dead, a liar, or has changed His mind. We are taught to believe that there will not be a universe as we know it far sooner than billions or trillions of years. Are we not? Do we not believe in the second coming of the Christ? I think it fair to say that we are given to know that this will happen much sooner than a mere million years from now not to mention billions or trillions. As a Christian I am virtually certain (by faith) that we need not be concerned about the vast future of the cosmos. Perhaps Rich can take some comfort in this.

At a personal level despair about the future of humanity is a sin. We are admonished to have hope.

Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.


1 Peter 1:3-4
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,


Cosmology. Space aliens. AI. The next plague. Entropy. Who cares?

Rich said: No according to the current Big Bang theory we live in a very special position in space time of low entropy.


Be we don't care about that. We people of Christ. We live for Him and trust Him for the future just as we exist as He has in His grace allowed us to.

Jesus came to a world obsessed with complicated religious rites. Dozens of "Gods". Even in nominally monotheistic Israel of the first century BCE the worship of God was complicated, elitist and commercial. He brought a transcendentally simple message.

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


The act of complicating Christs message as it is stated above is surly a sin. It seeks to construct a "club" of "intellectual Christians". A concept that ought to be anathema to all Christians.
#15280646
Godstud wrote:We live in an Age where how you feel and what you feel is more important than reality, and it'll support your delusions if it makes you feel good. It's a hedonistic ideology that's destroying our Western societies from within. Instead of teaching self control and self discipline, we teach people to embrace their stupidity and feelings, no matter how delusional or unrealistic that they are.

You aren't a man or woman. You are anything you pretend to be. If someone says otherwise, then they are a bigot, racist, transphobe, Nazi, and are cancelled by a society that is brainwashed into following this new ideology.

It's an ideology of child grooming, and teaching a new generation to be depraved and self-indulgent. Science and biology take a back seat to indulging in your feelings, no matter how trivial or fleeting they might be. Damn potential side effects or how it might affect your future! Do it now! "We'll" help you change to be whatever you feel you are. It doesn't matter how stupid it is, we'll affirm it.

I understand why it's the Age of Devilry, @annatar1914. It's all around us.


@Godstud :

Well my friend, thank you, although I am overwhelmed that we've come to this point. Easily the best I've ever read from you, although you always write well and from the heart.

And I mean overwhelmed, because nobody comes to this understanding without suffering, and I'm sure you like all men of good will has had to suffer this . For that I'm sorry, I wish that which opposes this demonism wasn't just the abject reactionary stupidity of a new fascism.
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@Potemkin :

Thank you also, you get what I'm saying, often expressed and understood better than I can write on it myself.

But yes, a rebellion pushing against all limits, and visualizing a reaching out of humanity collectively and man as individual across infinite worlds in an infinite universe, becoming gods by that very act of self will.

But then, with all their 500+ years of assumptions and speculation they imagine this scenario:

https://youtube.com/shorts/ClYpyy7HLRY?feature=share

And so it's clear to me that they'd do anything a clearly superior being would tell them to do and even believe what they'd say, all for the opportunity to reach that beings level of power and beyond. Especially if that being offered that sort of transhumanist uplift for a price.

So now we have a scenario and a cosmology in perfect synchrony together, perfectly matching the fears and desires and hubris of modern man.

Is that a coincidence?
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