[ingliz]

the hungry plastic surgeon industry

Blame the parents if you must. They have the final say, not the surgeons.

In the US, where most of the money is to be made...

For those under 18, surgery that renders the patient sterile ('bottom surgery') is banned. The exceptions, the 20 or so surgical interventions that are performed on minors each year in the US, are the result of children mutilating themselves either by accident or design.

For those under 18, mastectomies ('top surgery'), hormone therapy, puberty blockers, and any other medical treatments require parental consent.

[skinster]

From an older woman who identifies as trans:

"Gender Affirming"

While it is funny that trans activist lunatics use terms like these to make what is being done to people's bodies and minds seem like not really bad, this is also very insidious too because those behind this movement did this on purpose, including with terms like "bottom surgery" for what is indeed genital mutilation. They want to make it seem palatable to kids because telling them they'll be sterilised or mutilated might make them less likely to go through with such procedures.

Once upon a time so-called progressive rallied against things like genital mutilation. Now, here, they spend a lot of their day trying to sell what is the modern day lobotomy, but much worse. Did these people never stop to think that maybe they should try to encourage kids to be comfortable with their bodies? Rather than cruelly telling them they're born in the wrong body so that Big Pharma can rack up the billions it makes off this whole insanity..

Affirming your gender by mutilating your reproductive organs.

First they sterilise them. And mutilating to the degree that makes them unable to orgasm. Very great stuff, everyone should get this! Especially children who've never experienced sex and will never have the pleasure of it too, because of sick, lying adults who tell them taking this road is good for them.

These sickos really believe this is the "kind" position.

You are free to take this to the bank, UN, IMF and the Council of Health of whatever country you wish.

[ingliz]

sick, lying adults

Their parents?

Or are you saying that the parents are bamboozled and lack the mental capacity to give informed consent, so you should decide what is best for their children?

I thought parental rights were sacrosanct for you conservatives - No nanny state and all that.

[skinster]

You sure do a lot of babbling over an issue that you repeatedly said you didn't care about. Someone like you, a pensioner, falling for this shit is very funny.

Most people over 40 know this ideology is anti-reality bullshit.

[ingliz]

@skinster

Most people over 60 know that it doesn't matter a damn. The World turns.

[skinster]

Yet here you are, constantly badgering me about an issue you're pretending not to care about, but argue for.

Very strange behaviour, but you do you. And don't forget to dilate tonight!

[ingliz]

@skinster

I argue for bodily autonomy and the right to fuck up.

I argue that getting hysterical over a non-problem is foolish.

I argue that social questions are rarely decided by a biological truth.

I argue to pass the time.

etc, etc.

I also find it amusing to watch you getting more and more Blimpish (a reference that probably goes over your young head).

[skinster]

You argue for the sterilisaton and mutilation of children and when any regret or despair happens to these kids brainwashed by liars like you, you say you don't care and they're deserving for not being as wise as an old man living in Malta who believes in the most retarded idea of our time.

You argue that violating girls and women's boundaries is acceptable because of a misogyny you're happy to repeatedly share.

You argue for the invasion of men in women's space and that it's no big deal when girls and women have been raped in bathrooms, schools, hospitals, prisons and women's rape and domestic violence shelters by men identifying as women.

You argue that biological reality and our understanding of the world can be dismantled because delusional and narcissistic people - like you - have been caught up by a fad sold to us by Big Pharma and billionaires with nefarious intentions.

And then you claim you don't care about any of this while batting on the side of delusional and fetishist men.

etc.etc.

[Pants-of-dog]

Background:

Sex is one of the major social classes in any society. Gender identity as the most fundamental element of human life from beginning to end. While most people with behavior and attitudes appropriate to their physiological gender, but among them are also those sexual behaviors with their physical sex does not match, that say to this group transsexual people. The aim of this study was to investigate happiness and mental health in transsexual individuals before surgery and after surgery.

Methods:

This quasi-experimental study, consisted of 42 patients before surgery and after surgery inside Iran in 2016–2017. Snowball sampling method was selected. The instrument was Oxford Happiness Questionnaire (OHQ) and Symptom Check List (SCL25). Data were analyzed using SPSS, t-test independent groups and oneway ANOVA.

Results:

There was significant difference between transsexual individuals before surgery and after surgery in mean score of happiness (P<0.01) (t=−4/84). Moreover, there was significant difference between the two groups in mean score of mental health (P<0.01) (f=19/13).

Conclusion:

Transsexual individuals after surgery experienced more happiness and mental health than those before surgery.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6974860/

[noemon]

Heroine, cocaine and other drug users experience an uptick in relative happiness too, without mutilating their genitals.

I dont see you arguing for giving it to children.

Also 40 something individuals convincing themselves of their choices is laughable.

[Pants-of-dog]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/

Abstract
Background:

There is an unknown percentage of transgender and gender non-confirming individuals who undergo genital-mutilation surgeries (GMS) that experiences regret. Regret could lead to physical and mental morbidity and questions the appropriateness of these procedures in selected patients. The aim of this study was to evaluate the prevalence of regret in transgender individuals who underwent GMS and evaluate associated factors.

Methods:

A systematic review of several databases was conducted. Random-effects meta-analysis, meta-regression, and subgroup and sensitivity analyses were performed.

Results:

A total of 27 studies, pooling 7928 transgender patients who underwent any type of GMS, were included. The pooled prevalence of regret after GMS was 1% (95% CI <1%–2%). Overall, 33% underwent transmasculine procedures and 67% transfemenine procedures. The prevalence of regret among patients undergoing transmasculine and transfemenine surgeries was <1% (IC <1%–<1%) and 1% (CI <1%–2%), respectively. A total of 77 patients regretted having had GMS. Twenty-eight had minor and 34 had major regret based on Pfäfflin’s regret classification. The majority had clear regret based on Kuiper and Cohen-Kettenis classification.

Conclusions:

Based on this review, there is an extremely low prevalence of regret in transgender patients after GMS. We believe this study corroborates the improvements made in regard to selection criteria for GMS. However, there is high subjectivity in the assessment of regret and lack of standardized questionnaires, which highlight the importance of developing validated questionnaires in this population.

[noemon]

However, there is high subjectivity in the assessment of regret and lack of standardized questionnaires, which highlight the importance of developing validated questionnaires in this population.

No validated anything in other words and just bias to support the same argument that smoking is good for your health cause it reduces your stress and anxiety.

Question: Do you regret taking cocaine? A: I'm very happy when I'm high.
Question: Do you regret mutilating your genitals and other organs? A: I'm very happy when I'm high on my newness.

[ingliz]

@noemon

This study was performed in the largest Dutch gender identity clinic, which treats more than 95% of the transgender population in the Netherlands. The numbers are small because the trans population is piddling.

6,793 people (4,432 birth-assigned male, 2,361 birth-assigned female) visited our gender identity clinic from 1972 through 2015. The number of people assessed per year increased 20-fold from 34 in 1980 to 686 in 2015. The estimated prevalence in the Netherlands in 2015 was 1:3,800 for men (transwomen) and 1:5,200 for women (transmen).

[...]

Only 0.6% of transwomen and 0.3% of transmen who underwent gonadectomy were identified as experiencing regret.

— The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria Study (1972-2015): Trends in Prevalence, Treatment, and Regrets


Yes, the number of people with gender identity issues in Holland has increased dramatically in recent decades - from tens in the 80s to hundreds now. But that said, less than 1 percent regretted having the surgery, and that number shows no tendency to increase.

To concentrate on the few, the 1% who whine over something they did of their own free will and ignore the 99% is behaviour as odd as the people you are ignoring. And if one were to complain that the numbers are too small (in a study encompassing 95% of the Dutch trans population?) while simultaneously saying the trans population is too big, that would be contradictory at best.

[noemon]

To concentrate on the few, the 1% who whine over something they did of their own free will and ignore the 99% is behaviour as odd as the people you are ignoring. And if one were to complain that the numbers are too small (in a study encompassing 95% of the Dutch trans population?) while simultaneously saying the trans population is too big, that would be contradictory at best.

1) Trans people who undergo surgery on their own free will not be as open about their regret. Precisely because of their own pride, etcetera. Hence the argument above: subject to very high "subjectivity".
2) Your argument is a strawman because I did not argue that the numbers are small, I pointed out that the tests to determine their regret are not validated.
3) All these "studies" are run by the occult in the literal sense and are done to justify the illogical and irrational akin to previous studies pointing out the positive medical health of smoking & cocaine use.

[QatzelOk]

... the hungry plastic surgeon industry...

Yes, the hungry plastic-surgeon industry wants us to cut off our dicks, just like the hungry car and oil industries wanted us to destroy our cities and move to the sticks and play on lawns.

Does ut take a long time to scan all these feeds and look for lurid depictions of trans people?

Ot does Twitter and YouTube do it automatically for you?

I posted a personal anecdote about my "first-time" trans-gender aquaintance 40 years ago. Named Toni. Cancerous nodes around breast implants. And horrible, abusive "boyfriends" who treated her like crap.

I didn't google this, I experienced Toni IRL. Any comments about how my opinions on the matter are less google-based than yours?

I argue for bodily autonomy and the right to fuck up.

So you would support spider-DNA-therapy for young kids who love Spiderman?

Perhaps the price of spider-transition could be less expensive for kids 3-5 years old since it would take significantly fewer spider-DNA injections to transition them to their desired state?

What do the Marvel-comics-funded studies say about this, POD?

[ingliz]

@QatzelOk

If you could be bothered to read my posts... Well, I know you won't be doing that.

So,

If my personal preference counted for anything, I would prefer that trans-16-year-olds socially transition - live life as a woman (and that means being allowed to use women's toilets much to @skinster 's disgust) - for at least two years before they decide to have any hormone treatment or surgeries. But I recognise that 16-year-olds can give informed consent. So, in the interests of bodily autonomy and the right to fuck up, I believe what they do with their bodies - I would like to say short of a gonadectomy, but that would only be a personal preference - is up to them.

Will I weep if they fuck up? No.

Below that age, they are children, and nothing should be done. Or as a bad second best, as I know you conservatives love your parental rights, nothing should be done without parental consent.

[Tainari88]

1) Trans people who undergo surgery on their own free will not be as open about their regret. Precisely because of their own pride, etcetera. Hence the argument above: subject to very high "subjectivity".
2) Your argument is a strawman because I did not argue that the numbers are small, I pointed out that the tests to determine their regret are not validated.
3) All these "studies" are run by the occult in the literal sense and are done to justify the illogical and irrational akin to previous studies pointing out the positive medical health of smoking & cocaine use.

Noemon I happen to think you would not transition into being a woman. My impression of you is that you like being a man and a male with male parts that function. Dilation machines and so on and so forth to keep an artificial vagina functional is not your cup of tea. Am I wrong?

I doubt any man who has had kids and is happy being a male in life will ever give any time or thought to transition.

It is a very drastic step. There is a lot to lose for the man or woman thinking of doing the final surgeries and creating a new identity based on a different original born gender. It is tough.

I think if you lose any real sexuality in the process it is not worth it. Whether it be a male sexuality or a female sexuality you could esaily become ASEXUAL with a bad hormone treatment or and a combination of hormones and surgery.

You feel nothing while having sex or you have very paniful sex. That sounds like a losing proposition to me.

I do not see men like you thinking yes, cut my penis off and make a false vagina that is panful and I need to do all this crap to keep in good shape. No, I will pass on that stuff.

[ingliz]

@QatzelOk

Ah, I hear you saying that's all rather arbitrary.

Well, in the UK - and don't forget @skinster is British - the minimum age at which children can consent to medical treatments without parental approval is 16 years.

If the UK parliament and the British medical profession believe 16-year-olds have the capacity to give informed consent, who am I to disagree?

[Tainari88]

@QatzelOk

Ah, I hear you saying that's all rather arbitrary.

Well, in the UK - and don't forget @skinster is British - the minimum age at which children can consent to medical treatments without parental approval is 16 years.

If the UK parliament and the British medical profession believe 16-year-olds have the capacity to give informed consent, who am I to disagree?

Ingliz do you have a man made vagina? That is the burning controversial question at hand here? Yes or no?

Answer the question....Got to give it up....

Come on Ingliz, it is time to give it up. I used to go out to parties and stand around, because I was too nervous to really get down, because my body yearned to be free,

No more confusion on the side of the walls, got to get yourself together baby, you got to choose that artificial vagina with the dilation, Ingliz, got to give it up.....

[QatzelOk]

If the UK parliament and the British medical profession believe 16-year-olds have the capacity to give informed consent, who am I to disagree?

You could argue that in our day, young children grow up without community or sufficient role models to grow up properly and develop common sense.

OR.. you could exploit the damage that young people have experienced to sell them dangerous shit that they will regret their entire lives... in order to make money (and then run).