[Saeko]

So what? We have the best medical systems in history, so these are very rarely dangerous. it's safert than at any other time in history.

Smoking is also safer than at any other time in history. Doesn't mean it's a good idea to smoke.

People die all the time. No, that's a good reason not to have kids. That's a ridiculous reason.

Easy to say when you're not the one who is doing the dying.

There are risks in everything we do. When you have sex, you are taking a risk. When you walk down the street you are taking a risk. This is not the patriarchy. It's reality.

Walking down the street is inevitable. Being pregnant is not. Pregnancy and birth are unnecessary and dangerous risks.

Not wanting kids and to spend everything on yourself is selfish, even if MEN choose to do this. It's not limited simply to women.

This implies that there is some kind of moral obligation to have kids. That's what I meant when I said there is a patriarchal norm for women to have kids. This is the lie. There is no moral obligation for anyone to have kids, men or women. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with not having them.

Please provide a source showing that they can detect levels of love. Is there a study? Which loves is better? Which is more fulfilling? Is there a scale?

I think it's pretty self-evident that someone who can't even wipe their own ass and has yet to learn their ABC's is also incapable of appreciating the nuances of an adult relationship.

They do know. It's not a secret. Why are you pretending that women don't know they can get pregnant, and the risks associated with it? Do you really see women as lacking agency in even their own self control? :?:

I'm not pretending that women are generally unaware of all of the risks of pregnancy. That's just a fact. I myself have never even heard of most of them until I did some research.

Additionally, people act irrationally all the time. You'd be surprised how many decisions around having children are based on nothing more than wishful thinking, the mere hope that everything will turn out okay.

Men make sacrifices regarding family, so they can provide FOR their family. Men work FOR the family, and not for self-gratification. I know of few men who would choose career over family if they had a realistic choice, and the family wouldn't suffer financially for it.

Men abandon their wives and children for a lot less than their careers. Some side action often does the trick.

4 Feminist Lies That Are Making Women Miserable
Of all the lies feminists tell, the idea that career success is more fulfilling than marriage and family is by far the greatest. It is almost impossible to convey the depth of this lie, for it too began in the 1960s, this time with Betty Friedan's insistence that being a wife and mother is akin to being in a "comfortable concentration camp."

For many women, myself included, it would be. Only I would disagree that it would be comfortable.

Since that time, American women have been walloped with a steady diet of words and images that drive Friedan's argument home. Humans are pack animals: we need to feel part of the group to feel good about ourselves. Some of us are content to stand apart from the crowd, but most are not.

Cultural messages matter. Since mothering is no longer revered or encouraged, women are surprised to discover how heart-wrenching it is to leave their babies and return to work. They're surprised to discover that work isn't nearly as satisfying as they were led to believe. This same sense of unease is felt by single women who can't find a man with whom to settle down.
https://www.drjamesdobson.org/blogs/4-f ... -miserable

This is a false dichotomy. For most women, work is non-negotiable. Child-rearing is, and lots of mothers discover too late that child rearing wasn't for them.

I reject your childish rebuttal. You cannot argue against it, so you don't.

Can't argue against childish nonsense, so I won't.

[Godstud]

@Saeko Less than 1 woman in 5,300 dies in childbirth. You have a greater chance of dying in a car crash(1 in 107 throughout your life), than in giving birth.

Women have children. That's not patriarchal. That's a biological fact. Women/men having children is a biological imperative too, or if we had it your way, we'd go extinct out of stupidity like what you display.

People like you should not have kids. I am glad you don't want to, if it's seen as some onerous task.

You're a feminist and so facts are like kryponite, to you.

[Saeko]

@Saeko Less than 1 woman in 5,300 dies in childbirth. You have a greater chance of dying in a car crash(1 in 107 throughout your life), than in giving birth.

Well, I'll be sure to stop driving the day I don't need to to get to work.

Women have children. That's not patriarchal. That's a biological fact. Women/men having children is a biological imperative too,

We also have "biological imperatives" to murder the children of our sexual competitors. Doesn't mean that you should act on such dubious motivations.

or if we had it your way, we'd go extinct out of stupidity like what you display.

And yet, the smarter the person, the less kids they have.

People like you should not have kids. I am glad you don't want to, if it's seen as some onerous task.

People like me? You mean women? Great. I'm glad we agree.

You're a feminist and so facts are like kryponite, to you.

Are you like... 12?

[Godstud]

Well, I'll be sure to stop driving the day I don't need to to get to work.

Sure...

We also have "biological imperatives" to murder the children of our sexual competitors.

You've been watching the Nature Channel too much. Humans don't do that.

And yet, the smarter the person, the less kids they have.

Actually, the richer people get, the less children they have. This is common the world over.

People like me? You mean women? Great. I'm glad we agree.

No, people like you who see children as an impediment to their lifestyle. Most men and women don't think like you, and a good thing.

Are you like... 12?

Feminists don't like facts, since they interfere with their ideology of victimhood. Are you unaware of what a metaphor is?

[Neo]

@Godstud

Immigrants are extraordinarily important for our economy. An economy needs a workforce to grow and create good paying jobs. I welcome immigrants from all over the world to make a life here in the United States. Immigration has enriched the United States tremendously.

However, some of the xenophobic policies of Republican states like Florida's Ron DeSantis have done harm and damage to that state's economy by robbing various businesses of the workers they need to survive.

Plus, American women during different periods of history might opt not to have children. That's their right and their choice. The should have a right to an abortion too if that is what they want.

[Tainari88]

Eh... I don't agree. Babies and small children are not capable of loving their parents, in my opinion. Their "love" is shallow and self-serving. It's not at all something I would be interested in.

A child might grow up to become an adult who truly does love their parent(s) in a mutually reciprocal, selfless manner, but they won't necessarily, and have no obligation to do so either. Also, it wouldn't be easy for them to develop that kind of relationship with their parents, given the vast difference in age and life-experience between parent and child.

Furthermore, having a child would inevitably get in the way of building and deepening my relationship with my SO. So why would I risk destroying or damaging such a great relationship for someone who may or may not return that type of love for another 20-30 years? It makes no sense.

Saeko, I might be speaking for myself in this? But, I had the best time of my life being raised by my parents. I had such a beautiful love for them always. It was such FUN!! Such fun being their daughter. They became part of my soul. My very essence. They shared everything with me. Everything about their experiences, life, art, politics, thoughts, dreams, aspirations and who they were. There was a deep sense of being together always. Even through the rough spots in life.

When you love your parents that much? And they die fairly early. My father died at age 65 and my mother at age 67. Both were deeply mourned by their friends, family and people who knew them their entire lives. They were loved and respected by many. When you lose them? You wish you had a part of them with you always. Children are that part.

I see my son's face, and his mannerisms and style, his expression and preferences. His big heart, and compassionate nature, his fiery artistic side, his intelligence and his special qualities. Both physical and spiritual, and he has so much of my father, and my mother inside of him. He has the best parts of my husband too. My husband is very ill. I have no idea how long he will be with us. I hope many years into the future. But life is not guaranteed to us in this world.

A healthy, beautiful son or daughter that brings back those loved ones who are gone from us? Who are a part of our very soul? That is LIFE. The reason for this entire struggle Saeko. At least for me. I would not hesitate to protect him with everything I got. Everything.

And I know he feels the same way about me. He is one of those people who only responds with a tremendously pure heart to those he loves. Again, you get what you give with children. You give a lot? You gain the world with them.

Even my older son who was damaged by life. Surprises me every day. Never underestimate the power of giving of yourself. It is extraordinary and very powerful. The most powerful thing in the world. The power of giving of yourself for others and most especially for a child emerges from intimacy between someone whom you love deeply. Your spouse or SO as you stated. It is a reminder, oh, yeah, I remember, the man who loved me so much. He is with me through my son. I am with him through my son too. A really enormous gift from Mother Nature, God, and the Universe, who always is infinitely creative and full of joy. There is the proof.

You risk great pain at the loss. But thus is life. You lose people to death. But in the process of getting to know them? You become truly human.

Truly a lover of life.

[Tainari88]

@Saeko I also understand your perspective. And I will be very honest about it.

Regardless of what men are saying in this thread, getting pregnant and carrying a fetus to term is a risk. It is a risk. I do not care what anyone may say.

It is a risk. For me? It was a high risk. Since I was diabetic and old for getting pregnant for a woman. 45 is high risk pregnancy for sure.

The doctor told me, this could lead to a child being at risk for various defects like Down Syndrome, and many others.

One doctor even suggested aborting my baby would be the best course of action if I wanted to preserve my health.

I wanted my baby with everything I had. I would risk it all. All. My life. I told my husband if he had to choose between me and my child that he should go for the baby. That is how dedicated I was to bringing him to this world.

Women have different circumstances in this world. The state should stay out of it. It is incredibly difficult for women. We got to deal with everything that comes along with a pregnancy. Including the possibility of dying or major surgery. Because C sections are major surgery.

I watched what I ate carefully. I was not going to cause harm to my child through eating the wrong diet. So that went on for months. Watching everything I ate, measuring my blood sugar levels. Getting prenatal checkups. Taking prenatal vitamins. Getting the proper doctor and midwife. Going to baby care classes. All of it.

I had the most beautiful baby shower thrown by some Latin American workers my husband had been organizing for his Union job. They surprised me with generosity of material things. People making shitty wages and from humble places in Latin America like Guatemala, El Salvador, Mexico, Chile, Venezuela, Dominican Republic, Costa Rica, Panama, etc.

They as always are my people Saeko. They do not see babies as burdens. They are the continuity of family and human life for them. The reason for struggles as immigrants to begin with. Who do you struggle for? Your family. Period. Latin America is about that. Why do you think I am here? I never cared about MONEY and being rich. I cared about knowledge, being educated, and being loved and loving back. Giving back. My community are the people who run around sacrificing it all for their families. In Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, etc.

Puerto Rico is part of that Latino big family culture. It always has been.

You are right though about your arguments with the men. They need to step back and realize how much of a sacrifice it costs women to give birth to babies, bring them into adulthood with health and mental health as well, and then have that destroyed in dumb wars and fights for power that lead to wasted resources, lives and pain.

It better be about what is best for all people all over the world. And not about some few rich pigs living it up, and using what women have brought forth to life with great sacrifice and great pain to throw it away like garbage. The offense in that is extreme. For women.

If you love women and love mothers. Respect life. Respect it all. Give us equality, respect, love and POWER in equal shares. Do not be unjust with women. Give us the power to decide for ourselves.

[Neo]

@Tainari88

I am sorry to hear about your husband Tainari. I really do and sincerely hope he will get well and he will be OK. I hope lives many more years so he brings more joy and happiness into the world and to your family's life.

[Tainari88]

@Tainari88

I am sorry to hear about your husband Tainari. I really do and sincerely hope he will get well and he will be OK. I hope lives many more years so he brings more joy and happiness into the world and to your family's life.

For my son's sake and for mine I also hope he lives many more years. I had a scare recently. Had to take him to urgent care. The doctors near our home are really good. They did a great job. But the problems started in 2017. Too many years working two jobs and not having vacations in high pressure jobs and with the responsibilities of a man in a family.

Too many people in society nowadays really do not appreciate what MEN, real MEN, have to sacrifice for their families. I do not care about those fucking cowards who run from their girlfriends and pregnant wives and lovers and leave them alone in their anxiety and pain of the possibilities of having to shoulder the burdens of raising a child or children alone and without a partner contributing.

Men who are real men? Who go out there fighting the good fight to gain a paycheck and work and risk their health everyday to get their family needs taken care of? Bring home that bacon and that paycheck for their kids and their wives. Who are responsible men, with a lot of dedication...they are mistreated a lot. It used to be they were more respected. Now, men who do not have a lot of money or who are just working men and got to bust their ass every day without vacations or rest? Who do jobs that are essential but do not get any respect for it because they are not some Wall Street capitalist banker hedge fund rip off liar....do not get respect.

Men who are out there working and sacrificing? They are truly DADs and FATHERs. They are the ones who should be highly respected by all of society. A wife who does not respect her husband's contributions when the man is busting his ass everyday so that her children can eat, be clothed, be housed, be educated and to have savings for emergencies and to be protected, are women or wives who are fools of the first order. Respect the husband you got. If the husband you got does not abuse you verbally or physically, and is not using his anger and frustrations to take it out on you? Who is a good man and has good habits? Is worth keeping and sacrificing for. No one is perfect. But men who work hard for their families deserve an honored place in human societies.

Who does not love a loving father's protections and care? No one. Everyone loves that.

People ask me if I am traditional. I am generally not traditional. But as a humanist? You put human needs first. And that means caring for the people who make a society function. And that is definitely working men and women and good fathers and mothers. Responsible people. Who give a damn and do a lot. They are not being honored in the present society. That needs to happen soon. A lot of the discontent is related to that.

My husband got ill and was in intensive care in 2017, and he was touch and go for a bit. My son at the time was only six years old and did not know why his Papi was so sick. I was worried to death. His boss a horrible exploitation thought woman, whom both my son and I do not like at all called me...she said, 'When is he going to get out of that bed? I have too many inconveniences over here and he is causing issues by not working and taking care of my clients.' I lost it on that BITCH. You can go fuck yourself, with your greed. You should have allowed him to have vacations like it was agreed upon. But the work is hard and trying to get replacements were too much for you and your greedy, selfish self. FUCK YOU, you fucking bitch. Do not call me again. He is not getting out of the bed. Not for you or anyone who thinks like you. You Devilish demon ridden cabrona, and every other bad insult word for a woman in Spanish I threw at her. SHe never called me again.

After my husband got better and came home, his boss said to him. 'Your wife is a shrew. She is a damn hurricane. I am scared of her. I am not going to talk business with her'. LOL. I hope not. These assholes exploiting people who come to the USA trying to make money and feed their families and they get health issues because no one passes legislation protecting workers. It is a nightmare.

[Tainari88]

@Saeko wrote:

For many women, myself included, it would be. Only I would disagree that it would be comfortable.

I happen to think you are being realistic and responsible. My older adopted son's mother was a disaster as a mother. She was a failure as a wife too. She chose the worst possible men to father her children. Men who wound up dead in gang warfare or in jail, or who ran from the responsibilities. She was irresponsible with her own body. Taking drugs, heroine, beer, alcohol, marijuana, smoking crack, etc while pregnant. Giving birth to her three kids, two sons and a daughter all drug addicted and being born months early before her due date. All kids who suffered as soon as they were born. Hoping that by giving birth to them she would be validated at least by giving birth to children.

She failed to realize what being a mother is Saeko. She failed to realize that it takes forgetting about what she might want. She had to realize that she had a responsibility to give up her drug habits during pregnancy and after pregnancy, that she had to take action to sacrifice and pay her rent and get help for her situation. She was offered over 40 times rehab and a bunch of help to clean up her act. She just could not do it. She got belligerent and was not intelligent with the system that does pressure poor, single mothers who are black with basic educations and bad paying jobs. She did not have the strength of character to do what was necessary.

Her kids were left alone for weeks without money or supervision, even her baby left with sour milk and dirty diapers and with no real care, her older son left to dive in dumpsters looking for dinner in trash bins. Her middle son (the son I wound up adopting) waiting for his brother to come home with half eaten burgers from McDonald's trash left by some other person.

I do back the state in these situations. The kids have to be taken care of. If the parent or parents fail in their duties? In the past? In other centuries. The kids were in deep shit. They either became street kids and got killed, raped, exploited and or manipulated by gangs. Oliver Twist scenarios with Fagin, and etc. That was the 19th century. Charles Dickens horrors was what would happen to them. In the new Century now? The kids got the state stepping in and getting some hope for the kids. That is a decent role for the state to play. Until Capitalism changes its savage nature the state should be using taxpayer money to deal with these horrible scenarios with child negligence and drug addicted crazy ass parents.

Now, women like you have a right to not have kids. Period. It is risky, it is hard. And it is exhausting and thankless. My older son was adopted at age 9 years old. He was HARD AS HELL TO RAISE. Hard as hell. He had been through the mill. A meat grinder emotionally for a baby and a child. Lost his brother and sister to other families. He was abused the MOST out of all three of his mother's children. She was a black woman who internalized the racism and took it out on her little boy. A three year old innocent baby. Beating him with beats, black and blue and verbal abuse of ---You dirty little N*****. You dark little bastard...beat him black and blue. She did not beat the other two as much. Why? Because the older one was half Mexican and she liked the father who was shot dead in a gang shooting in Arizona.

The younger baby daughter's father was from the Phillipines and she liked that father a little bit. He was a coward and did not want the responsibility. But she liked him. He ran. The father of my son was an abusive Black man who beat her black and blue and tried to kill her. He killed various people and went to jail for life. Lifer in prison. He could care less what happened to his son. Who is a man of great possibilities and who graduated from college with good grades, speaks Spanish, rents his own apartment, has his own business, makes his own money, never went to jail, owns his own cars, saves his own money, and is an educated man who never has seen the inside of a jail cell. It is about the parents. He is a great man not because of the failures of his biological parents. He is who he is because of the ones out there like my husband and I, who are doing the hard work of making all this shit that happens in these racist, and greedy capitalist societies based on haves and have nots, have a shot at a real life.

Being responsible for others and giving of yourself means basically life or death in this world Saeko.

At the same time? If you know you are not going to be dealing with all that shit that kids require. I had to deal with a lot of shit from my first adoptive son. I really thought, this kid will never love me back. He will never appreciate me. He is angry at the world. He hates my values. He is not going to respect everything I do for him. Even HE Saeko.....in the end gave more than I ever expected. MORE than I EVER DREAMED of him being able to GIVE.

That is the role of being a parent. It is the hardest job on planet Earth. You do it right? You did a big thing.

Now, you are very intelligent and very smart. And incredibly talented. I think your role is not to be a mother and so on. I think the role might be something different. I think you have a right to choose that.

Women have a lot of roles now they can choose for themselves. That is progress on every level. I will always back the right of women to choose who they are going to become in human society.

I wanted to be a mother. My husband wanted to be a father. We agreed. We made the decision. You and your husband choose something different. You have a right to that.

What I will never forgive are people like my older son's biological mother's case. Bring the kids in and just give birth to kids with withdrawal symptoms, make them suffer for your own bad choices, get angry at the mother who does raise them, never help the kids who you abandon. Expect them to respect you for doing nothing to make society better....and blame everyone else for your own irresponsible choices.

You are not that kind of woman. And you made a mature well thought out choice. You have a right to that. Let no one try to make you feel bad about that. You are a full woman without a pregnancy. That is reality. And you are not about cutting your tits off and removing your ovaries to become a man and put on an artificial dick. You are happy being a woman.

Your definition of womanhood and not someone else's. Usted tiene mis respetos como mujer.

[Truth To Power]

You've been watching the Nature Channel too much. Humans don't do that.

Actually, they do. A child is something like 40 times as likely to be murdered by a parent's new romantic partner as by their biological parent.

No, people like you who see children as an impediment to their lifestyle. Most men and women don't think like you, and a good thing.

Despite the obvious genetic imperative to reproduce or perish, most people, especially most men, do not have the personal qualities needed to be good parents. I have a lot more respect for people who have enough self-awareness and responsibility to choose not to have kids than for those who have them without a lot of consideration and then do a bad job of raising them -- or, as so many men do, just leave them for someone else to raise. That is the height of irresponsibility.

[Truth To Power]

Tainari, thank you for your contributions in this thread. You have said a lot of what I think better than I could have.

What I will never forgive are people like my older son's biological mother's case. Bring the kids in and just give birth to kids with withdrawal symptoms, make them suffer for your own bad choices, get angry at the mother who does raise them, never help the kids who you abandon. Expect them to respect you for doing nothing to make society better....and blame everyone else for your own irresponsible choices.

IMO, if a woman gives birth to a child damaged by her drug abuse, she should be ineligible for any form of public assistance until she gets sterilized. She should never be permitted to do that to another child. As for women who do that but do not seek or need public assistance, I don't know what steps should be taken, but something should be done, some effective intervention, to ensure they don't do it again.

When I was a kid, too many decades ago, people generally did not know about fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS). I had an alcoholic aunt who gave birth to three FAS kids, but she was from an affluent family and had a husband who supported her, so she had an otherwise normal life, and certainly never went on welfare. At first, she was not aware that it was her drinking that had made her kids so mentally deficient that they had to be institutionalized. But much later, when FAS was publicized, it became obvious to all of us what had happened -- her kids had the classic FAS facial characteristics -- and she also must have realized what she had done. She ultimately drank herself to death, which I strongly suspect was to escape the knowledge of the atrocity she had committed against her own children.

[Rancid]

A decline in population is needed anyway. All good.

That said, the wife and I are nearly 40. There is something we have noticed among our peers in this similar age group. I'd say about 50% of our friends/acquaintances that actively said they did not want kids back in their 20s - 30s are appearing to regret it now. For some of these folks, it's at a personal crisis level. Like something they cry about. not figuratively, but like actually cry. They also are working to try and find a mate ASAP (or rekindle a relationship the one that got away) to have kids before they get any older due to the risks. For others it's just a general disappointment in themselves, doesn't seem to hit them too strongly. This is true even among the childless men we know. I noticed the topic of children/family comes up more and more during random pub/bar conversations with these people. Like, they bring it up, not us. In fact, I was conditioned to actively not talk about my family or kids or whatever in my 20s-30s because childless people get annoyed/touchy when someone talks about their kids (but not their pets for some reason).

During regular conversations, these people will often just open up about this kind of stuff. They start to probe me and my wife with questions about our family. How we feel? Any regrets? Are we happy? Do we feel we missed out on fun because we had kids younger (... younger than people today anyway. I had kids a few year older than our parents had us). I can tell, that some of these people are hurting now. Nothing I can do about it.

All of that to say, I wonder how many of those women under 45 will regret this when they hit 45 years old? Same for the men. Actually, in my experience, the childless men seem to open up about this more than the women do. Maybe it's just because I'm a guy though...

There could be a middle aged mental health crisis coming in the next decade or two.

Or.. this could all be nothing, and no big deal...

Obviously, you can still have kids at 40+ but it's high risk.

[Tainari88]

Actually, they do. A child is something like 40 times as likely to be murdered by a parent's new romantic partner as by their biological parent.

Despite the obvious genetic imperative to reproduce or perish, most people, especially most men, do not have the personal qualities needed to be good parents. I have a lot more respect for people who have enough self-awareness and responsibility to choose not to have kids than for those who have them without a lot of consideration and then do a bad job of raising them -- or, as so many men do, just leave them for someone else to raise. That is the height of irresponsibility.

This is very true.

Except in @Godstud 's case. He married to be committed and he married to raise his son. He is a responsible and loving father. He was responsible with the first kids too. I know he was. I have no idea what happened with the partner in the first relationship. But I think he was all in with the kids. Sometimes women also are to blame. Keeping the men from their children because they are angry with him too. It takes two people to make a relationship function. Even when it is a separation. And a dissolution in life. Not all men are irresponsible. Some are just caught up in a bad system too.

He is doing the job. And a good job he is doing. I have a feeling he feels disrespected by something or someone for being a responsible father.

He is a good father. He always has been.

I read his posts about his first relationship in Canada. He did his duty and beyond. I do not know what happened. I have no right to be prying into Godstud's personal business. But, I have read his posts faithfully for years. He was not married to the first woman. He worked hard in a physically demanding job for years and earned his early retirement. He paid his child support, and his responsibilities. He never married his first partner. He mentioned feeding, cooking and taking care of them. Going to work and doing the laundry. That does not sound like some machista man to me.

He married the woman in Thailand. The beautiful one with a big family. He works for his family there. And he is responsible.

He took his vows seriously.

He lives in another culture. And he is not a racist. For sure.

He is passionate and fiery in his beliefs. I think I know him well enough to know that about him by now.

[Truth To Power]

But I think he was all in with the kids.

If you are not going to be all-in with them, don't have kids.

Sometimes women also are to blame. Keeping the men from their children because they are angry with him too.

Right: using children to hurt their other parent is also selfish, irresponsible, and despicable.

Not all men are irresponsible. Some are just caught up in a bad system too.

Certainly. And it is not only irresponsibility that can make someone a bad parent -- although it seems to be the most common reason.

He is doing the job. And a good job he is doing. I have a feeling he feels disrespected by something or someone for being a responsible father.

So some middle-aged horndog buddies look down on him for being a responsible family man instead of chasing skirts like they do? I can't imagine taking such puerile attitudes seriously.

[Saeko]

Usted tiene mis respetos como mujer.

[Neo]

*double post*

[Neo]

@Rancid

There is something we have noticed among our peers in this similar age group. I'd say about 50% of our friends/acquaintances that actively said they did not want kids back in their 20s - 30s are appearing to regret it now. For some of these folks, it's at a personal crisis level. Like something they cry about. not figuratively, but like actually cry. They also are working to try and find a mate ASAP (or rekindle a relationship the one that got away) to have kids before they get any older due to the risks.

My wife and I have made the decision not to have kids due to our age and she already has a son from a previous relationship. He is my stepson and he lives on his own and does well for himself. So, for me, it's not an issue if we do not have children. I am OK with that and there is nothing wrong with being childless. You have a lot more freedom to do the things you want.

I am also sure that having children is rewarding too. But it's just the way things worked out between my wife and I. In my view, so long as I have an emotionally stable partner and I make a commitment to her, then a commitment is a commitment and I stand by it till the end. However, I will not tolerate a woman who is emotionally unstable or is abusive like my ex-wife for example. That's not something I agreed to commit to.

[Puffer Fish]

Good points. But, people have children in Latin America and in Africa. The future generations will be coming from those continents. Guaranteed.

And the future will probably be looking like these continents.

(Think about it, there's a reason why nobody moves there)

[Rancid]

@Rancid



My wife and I have made the decision not to have kids due to our age and she already has a son from a previous relationship. He is my stepson and he lives on his own and does well for himself. So, for me, it's not an issue if we do not have children. I am OK with that and there is nothing wrong with being childless. You have a lot more freedom to do the things you want.

I am also sure that having children is rewarding too. But it's just the way things worked out between my wife and I. In my view, so long as I have an emotionally stable partner and I make a commitment to her, then a commitment is a commitment and I stand by it till the end. However, I will not tolerate a woman who is emotionally unstable or is abusive like my ex-wife for example. That's not something I agreed to commit to.

Of course, we all have our decisions to make. My point was, that in my experience, a significant segment of the people that said they will never had kids when I was in my 20s-30s, end up regretting that 10-20 years later. Not all of them, but it appears to be significant enough that I see it almost weekly. I'm surprised at how many of the "no kids" people I had to stay quiet around when it came to the topic of family/kids, that now, all of sudden want to talk about it. When they do want to talk about it, it's kind of depressing. Now...I don't want to talk about kids. Or rather, not in that depressing fucking way. It's fucking awkward.

I'm also sure as shit not going to consul (sp?) them with "well.... having kids isn't that great anyway" or some lies like that. Maybe that is what they are hoping to hear.

On a side note, many of those people that said they wouldn't have kids, have successfully had kids in their early 40s. Sooo of course, not impossible, but these people were in committed relationships/marriages for years, so much easier. Others, that played the game (or didn't prioritize their deeper intimate relationships beyond friends) in their 30s, not so much of an easy time.

Again though, this isn't all of them, just a significant segment of those that i know in that group. Like 50%. The other 50% are perfectly fine, as far as I can tell. It's basically a coin flip.

I think part of this is rooted in the fact that life can get VERY lonely the older you get. There is a certain type of loneliness that for many, friends or technology can't fulfill. I think many people fall into that camp (not all, but many).

And the future will probably be looking like these continents.

(Think about it, there's a reason why nobody moves there)

Disagree, if you look at people from Latin America and Africa that live in the US (especially their children). They tend to adopt American values/ideas and are basically American in every way possible except in being white, and being white shouldn't be a requirement to be an American.

You are falling for the propaganda.

It must pain you greatly that I work with an outreach program that finds me black, latino (and poor white) students to pull into the engineering field by giving them internships in my team.