Trump Indicted for Jan 6 - Page 21 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15288246
QatzelOk wrote:Perhaps you worked on the MK Ultra project in your younger years with the CIA?

I'm assuming you're a wealthy senior with time on his hands and no political interests whatsoever.

Have you ever worked with torture instruments or in an illegal detention center?

And if so, how do you think this life experience may affect your ability to converse constructively with others?


Mk Ultra ended over two decades before I was born. No to the other two accusations as well.
#15288249
So, Donald Trump. We're still talking about him and the " barbarians at the gate" feeling people get whenever he runs for President.

I note the curious lack of that same feeling when REAL barbarians are at the gate and few people in the West seem concerned at all.

It's not like Trump was going to do a Marius thing when he entered the Roman Capitol: can you seriously imagine him leading the protesters on January 6th, and having the heads of enemy senators piled up in front of him like Marius's troops did for him?

Now that's an image.... Actually kind of a fucking awesome one.

No, with modern civilization all greatness has been dictated to be exiled from future history and even evil greatness.

So what are the collective " we" worried about, one way or another? No, not Trump. It was the protesters of Jan 6th who are the real inspirers of that feeling.
#15288442
Sandzak wrote:Trump leads over Biden by 10%... Just a shutdown could save Biden, by blaming republicans. It would also be detrimental to the US economy.


The GQP is so stupid, that is exactly what is going to happen.
#15288445
Biden's made Trump look good, and that's saying a LOT!

Trump's a symptom and not the disease.
#15288447
@annatar1914 let us be realistic here. Dangerous rhetoric.

People really are cynical and fed up with US politics.

You got Trump getting all these people upset.



Trump is not going away. Why? The Republicans hate the liberals who they see as traitors to America. Hypocrites and liars. They are right about the Democratic party.

So this is going to be burning down the other party until the Trump man either is indicted and barred from the elections and violence by the Far Right saying the results are rigged?

Or Democrats keep being in denial about their hypocritical bullshit ways of establishment politics.

That is the future folks in US politics for the near future.

https://youtube.com/shorts/7T7f610WLz4? ... jQNMqpWP9o
#15288449
@Tainari88 The American "liberals" are anything but Liberals. The real fascist party is the Democrat party in the USA. They're just sneakier about it.
#15288451
Tainari88 wrote:@annatar1914 let us be realistic here. Dangerous rhetoric.

People really are cynical and fed up with US politics.

You got Trump getting all these people upset.



Trump is not going away. Why? The Republicans hate the liberals who they see as traitors to America. Hypocrites and liars. They are right about the Democratic party.

So this is going to be burning down the other party until the Trump man either is indicted and barred from the elections and violence by the Far Right saying the results are rigged?

Or Democrats keep being in denial about their hypocritical bullshit ways of establishment politics.

That is the future folks in US politics for the near future.

https://youtube.com/shorts/7T7f610WLz4? ... jQNMqpWP9o


@Tainari88 :

Whatever you or I think about President Trump, he has skillfully tapped into the very legitimate anger of working class people of every ethnicity and region of the country, because he knows and they know that the Democratic Party doesn't represent them and hasn't represented them in a long time. They know that the GOP doesn't represent them either of course, the GOP establishment only represents their donor class.

What Trump is to regular decent normal law abiding people is the admittedly slight possibility of them and their needs being seen to. They know that the media constantly lies to them about everything and that the politicians only pander to degenerates and brazen incindiaries and criminals, not working people who haven't seen a real raise in 40 years and have to worry about the kind of world their children will live in.

Even if Trump returns to the White House and only does a fraction of what he promises they figure it will still be better than what the others will do for them which is absolutely nothing. And worse than nothing, because they know that the elites are heading America straight into World War Three abroad and complete collapse internally.

This is what they think. They're just the unheard normal working people whose votes don't count. Trump is their desperate attempt to be heard by the political elites: you work for us, listen or we'll find someone who will replace you.
#15288462
annatar1914 wrote:...Whatever you or I think about President Trump, he has skillfully tapped into the very legitimate anger of working class people of every ethnicity and region of the country, because he knows and they know that the Democratic Party doesn't represent them and hasn't represented them in a long time...


Yes, and this why big-money donors support Trump as a replacement for their Weimar-ish Democrats.

If they can't have a submissive bunch of Weimar clowns, they will take an emotionally-resonant dictator who doesn't respect rules or decorum.

Either way, Biden or Trump, the 1% wins. I am not happy with either candidate and neither should you be, unless you're an arms dealer or an oligarch.
#15288469
annatar1914 wrote:@Tainari88 :

Whatever you or I think about President Trump, he has skillfully tapped into the very legitimate anger of working class people of every ethnicity and region of the country, because he knows and they know that the Democratic Party doesn't represent them and hasn't represented them in a long time. They know that the GOP doesn't represent them either of course, the GOP establishment only represents their donor class.

What Trump is to regular decent normal law abiding people is the admittedly slight possibility of them and their needs being seen to. They know that the media constantly lies to them about everything and that the politicians only pander to degenerates and brazen incindiaries and criminals, not working people who haven't seen a real raise in 40 years and have to worry about the kind of world their children will live in.

Even if Trump returns to the White House and only does a fraction of what he promises they figure it will still be better than what the others will do for them which is absolutely nothing. And worse than nothing, because they know that the elites are heading America straight into World War Three abroad and complete collapse internally.

This is what they think. They're just the unheard normal working people whose votes don't count. Trump is their desperate attempt to be heard by the political elites: you work for us, listen or we'll find someone who will replace you.


I understand what you are saying Annatar1914. I do understand what you are trying to convey.

My perspective is through the eyes of an international socialist. I have studied many political parties all over the world. Their histories, their strategies. In fact I got extremely good grades precisely in International Politics. And these issues that the working people have with gridlocked incompetent bullshit self serving elitist actions on behalf of representing the working class when they never do is an old dilemma in other nations and in other political histories. The USA is not unique.

What they need to do is what has happened in other nations who had unresponsive politicians and a corrupt media, and system based on donors and elitists. You create a coalition of smaller third parties. Build them up over time, consolidate them and then go for the third party ATTACK. You identify the issues of concern of the working people and normal voters and then you go through three or four super difficult election cycles and they will lie, fraud, and do every dirty trick in the book. But you then kick their ass with overwhelming numbers.

That happened in Mexico and a couple of other nations too. One in Sweden. People should study these political dilemmas for answers and they do not. Do not be locked in to just national politics.

You had el PRI and el PAN in Mexico. Both corrupt neoliberal or conservative shitty corrupt elites in power seats, and they were in power for 70 years. On and off the same gridlocked horrible parties. Assassinations of candidates and so on. There have been presidential assassinations in the history of the US elections as well. Kennedy. Lol.

And so what did they do? Made a coalition of leftists like PT, Green Party, Liberal social democrat, Socialists etc and all came together and united their voters under the banner of Morena. They outplayed the gridlocked nonresponsive horrors.

They took over and did a clean sweep of power.

I smile because they finally got responsive government. Even under a horrible worldwide pandemic.

They are slated to win again. A very left and clean with zero corruption female president for the first time in the history of Mexican politics.

The elites are upset. They have been beaten down, blocked, taxed and hit hard where it hurts. Their power and in their pocketbooks. It works.
#15288475
Tainari88 wrote:I understand what you are saying Annatar1914. I do understand what you are trying to convey.

My perspective is through the eyes of an international socialist. I have studied many political parties all over the world. Their histories, their strategies. In fact I got extremely good grades precisely in International Politics. And these issues that the working people have with gridlocked incompetent bullshit self serving elitist actions on behalf of representing the working class when they never do is an old dilemma in other nations and in other political histories. The USA is not unique.

What they need to do is what has happened in other nations who had unresponsive politicians and a corrupt media, and system based on donors and elitists. You create a coalition of smaller third parties. Build them up over time, consolidate them and then go for the third party ATTACK. You identify the issues of concern of the working people and normal voters and then you go through three or four super difficult election cycles and they will lie, fraud, and do every dirty trick in the book. But you then kick their ass with overwhelming numbers.

That happened in Mexico and a couple of other nations too. One in Sweden. People should study these political dilemmas for answers and they do not. Do not be locked in to just national politics.

You had el PRI and el PAN in Mexico. Both corrupt neoliberal or conservative shitty corrupt elites in power seats, and they were in power for 70 years. On and off the same gridlocked horrible parties. Assassinations of candidates and so on. There have been presidential assassinations in the history of the US elections as well. Kennedy. Lol.

And so what did they do? Made a coalition of leftists like PT, Green Party, Liberal social democrat, Socialists etc and all came together and united their voters under the banner of Morena. They outplayed the gridlocked nonresponsive horrors.

They took over and did a clean sweep of power.

I smile because they finally got responsive government. Even under a horrible worldwide pandemic.

They are slated to win again. A very left and clean with zero corruption female president for the first time in the history of Mexican politics.

The elites are upset. They have been beaten down, blocked, taxed and hit hard where it hurts. Their power and in their pocketbooks. It works.

What you describe here is what is known as a united front , where various progressive left groups , such as Communists and socialists , unite against both the bourgeois liberal establishment and the reactionary right . On the other hand , the popular front alignment , which has functioned under the Democratic party's big tent , has a much broader center to left-wing base , and merely exists to safeguard what remaining democracy we as a nation might still have. The choice that lies before us , in opposition to the alt-right post-fascism / right populism / national conservatism , of both the likes of Trump and Desantis , is whether to back someone such as Cornel West , as part of an united front , or to fall in line behind Biden , as part of a popular front strategy . Could the perfect become the enemy of the good , or is a more meaningfully significant social change called for ?
#15288477
Random American wrote:I'm not surprised that you'd need to resort to posting far-right sources of dubious quality. Absolutely pathetic. :roll:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-duran/

Is @skinster now a "MAGA Communist" ? If so , then her postings , which have mostly just been copy and pasting , certainly makes sense , in that regard. Well she's not the only one here who can post propaganda , as evidenced by the two videos I shall post below, the first much shorter and therefore less comprehensive a criticism than the second. Two can play at this game. By the way, I will say that fully automated luxury communism is at least far preferable to so called "MAGA Communism" , with its opportunistic deviationist red brown alliance.
#15288478
Tainari88 wrote:I understand what you are saying Annatar1914. I do understand what you are trying to convey.

My perspective is through the eyes of an international socialist. I have studied many political parties all over the world. Their histories, their strategies. In fact I got extremely good grades precisely in International Politics. And these issues that the working people have with gridlocked incompetent bullshit self serving elitist actions on behalf of representing the working class when they never do is an old dilemma in other nations and in other political histories. The USA is not unique.

What they need to do is what has happened in other nations who had unresponsive politicians and a corrupt media, and system based on donors and elitists. You create a coalition of smaller third parties. Build them up over time, consolidate them and then go for the third party ATTACK. You identify the issues of concern of the working people and normal voters and then you go through three or four super difficult election cycles and they will lie, fraud, and do every dirty trick in the book. But you then kick their ass with overwhelming numbers.

That happened in Mexico and a couple of other nations too. One in Sweden. People should study these political dilemmas for answers and they do not. Do not be locked in to just national politics.

You had el PRI and el PAN in Mexico. Both corrupt neoliberal or conservative shitty corrupt elites in power seats, and they were in power for 70 years. On and off the same gridlocked horrible parties. Assassinations of candidates and so on. There have been presidential assassinations in the history of the US elections as well. Kennedy. Lol.

And so what did they do? Made a coalition of leftists like PT, Green Party, Liberal social democrat, Socialists etc and all came together and united their voters under the banner of Morena. They outplayed the gridlocked nonresponsive horrors.

They took over and did a clean sweep of power.

I smile because they finally got responsive government. Even under a horrible worldwide pandemic.

They are slated to win again. A very left and clean with zero corruption female president for the first time in the history of Mexican politics.

The elites are upset. They have been beaten down, blocked, taxed and hit hard where it hurts. Their power and in their pocketbooks. It works.


@Tainari88 :

I wish something would happen to make lives better. As I write, the power is out in my part of town. Again. It's only been a few days ago when we were having rolling blackouts. They have money for the corporate welfare and the military industrial complex, but not for upkeep of the crumbling infrastructure.
#15288483
annatar1914 wrote:@Tainari88 :

I wish something would happen to make lives better. As I write, the power is out in my part of town. Again. It's only been a few days ago when we were having rolling blackouts. They have money for the corporate welfare and the military industrial complex, but not for upkeep of the crumbling infrastructure.


They do not have resources for normal people Annatar. That has been the case with neoliberal elitist Mexican parties for years. They kicked their asses so hard...I was surprised at how upset the elite in Mexico have gotten. They protested in their Mercedes Benz, invented fucking lies about the Morena party. One, I laughed so much. It was ridiculous shit. Claudia Sheinbaum is super clean. Never took bribes and is a very competent and popular candidate for the presidency. So they said she plagiarized her dissertation of Physics. Lol. It was a lie. She went on TV and recited every detail about her research, she has an almost perfect memory. They then went into hiding.

They got problems because the working people in Mexico do not support them and the polls for this year's elections are overwhelmingly favorable to the Morenistas. They are going to retain the presidency, the senate and the congress and 22 out of 32 governorships of all the 32 Mexican states. They are screwed.

So, they have on TV and on youtube videos and ads about--we are a new PRI and it is not the old PRI of corrupt people who did nothing for you. That is in the past. We are here for the people. To meet your needs.

I nearly had a laughing fit. That is what they have been reduced to Annatar trying to assuage the image of corrupt nonresponsive asshole politicians. The people do not like them.

But, Mexican are cynical and skeptical in general. They do not have that American first World Rah Rah Rah the greatest nation on the face of the Earth indoctrination that exists in the USA. Mexicans really expect politicians to be untrustworthy liars and they identify was working people. Not as middle class or upper crust Mexicans. They are about class warfare in the voting booth.

In the USA you got working people voting for a totally self serving conman who does not respect the poor, the working class or anyone who stands in his way. Mexican working class people never would vote for him. AMLO the present Mexican president was a Union leader, and the mayor of Mexico. He responded to the poorest neighborhoods and got things accomplished for them as a class. You have to test the actions of these pretenders to power.

The USA is full of people who vote against their own class interests and national interests. They are voting for a man who is a professional fraudster, has no real knowledge of how a government works, and is incredibly impulsive and self serving, and narcissistic with fascist characteristics.

The poor in Mexico would have never voted for that bastard in a million years or believed he represented their class interests. He is not even a good version of Porfirio Diaz a Mexican dictator with enormous influence in the past.

No, the USA has a serious lack of understanding of what class struggle should be about politically speaking.

They are shooting themselves in the foot with that bad two party bad candidates that warmonger and feed corporate monopolies on power. They have no sense of how to force the issue.

It is pathetic.

The Left is strong though in Mexico and most of Latin America due to the conditions that exist in our nations. The USA is not. The Left is either weak, ineffective or does not do what is necessary to get the job of pressuring these incompetents to the point of giving up power.

Unless they fix their class identity issues and continue to play racist political football? Nothing will progress in the USA.
#15288489
Tainari88 wrote:They do not have resources for normal people Annatar. That has been the case with neoliberal elitist Mexican parties for years. They kicked their asses so hard...I was surprised at how upset the elite in Mexico have gotten. They protested in their Mercedes Benz, invented fucking lies about the Morena party. One, I laughed so much. It was ridiculous shit. Claudia Sheinbaum is super clean. Never took bribes and is a very competent and popular candidate for the presidency. So they said she plagiarized her dissertation of Physics. Lol. It was a lie. She went on TV and recited every detail about her research, she has an almost perfect memory. They then went into hiding.

They got problems because the working people in Mexico do not support them and the polls for this year's elections are overwhelmingly favorable to the Morenistas. They are going to retain the presidency, the senate and the congress and 22 out of 32 governorships of all the 32 Mexican states. They are screwed.

So, they have on TV and on youtube videos and ads about--we are a new PRI and it is not the old PRI of corrupt people who did nothing for you. That is in the past. We are here for the people. To meet your needs.

I nearly had a laughing fit. That is what they have been reduced to Annatar trying to assuage the image of corrupt nonresponsive asshole politicians. The people do not like them.

But, Mexican are cynical and skeptical in general. They do not have that American first World Rah Rah Rah the greatest nation on the face of the Earth indoctrination that exists in the USA. Mexicans really expect politicians to be untrustworthy liars and they identify was working people. Not as middle class or upper crust Mexicans. They are about class warfare in the voting booth.

In the USA you got working people voting for a totally self serving conman who does not respect the poor, the working class or anyone who stands in his way. Mexican working class people never would vote for him. AMLO the present Mexican president was a Union leader, and the mayor of Mexico. He responded to the poorest neighborhoods and got things accomplished for them as a class. You have to test the actions of these pretenders to power.

The USA is full of people who vote against their own class interests and national interests. They are voting for a man who is a professional fraudster, has no real knowledge of how a government works, and is incredibly impulsive and self serving, and narcissistic with fascist characteristics.

The poor in Mexico would have never voted for that bastard in a million years or believed he represented their class interests. He is not even a good version of Porfirio Diaz a Mexican dictator with enormous influence in the past.

No, the USA has a serious lack of understanding of what class struggle should be about politically speaking.

They are shooting themselves in the foot with that bad two party bad candidates that warmonger and feed corporate monopolies on power. They have no sense of how to force the issue.

It is pathetic.

The Left is strong though in Mexico and most of Latin America due to the conditions that exist in our nations. The USA is not. The Left is either weak, ineffective or does not do what is necessary to get the job of pressuring these incompetents to the point of giving up power.

Unless they fix their class identity issues and continue to play racist political football? Nothing will progress in the USA.


@Tainari88 , my friend:

These are all reasons why I thank God for my life experiences where I saw where Socialism is still a possibility, or a recent memory.

Pretty hard to argue with a basic agreement between a government and it's people; we all work, and in return we can make use of family leave. Of free education, free health care, free utilities, free housing, subsidized public transportation. Buildings designed for closeness to necessary goods and services. Cheap prices. A period of compulsory national service. And so on.

How the hell would a educated and informed working person oppose all that? And having it you'd never willingly do away with it, would you?
#15288577
annatar1914 wrote:@Tainari88 , my friend:

These are all reasons why I thank God for my life experiences where I saw where Socialism is still a possibility, or a recent memory.

Pretty hard to argue with a basic agreement between a government and it's people; we all work, and in return we can make use of family leave. Of free education, free health care, free utilities, free housing, subsidized public transportation. Buildings designed for closeness to necessary goods and services. Cheap prices. A period of compulsory national service. And so on.

How the hell would a educated and informed working person oppose all that? And having it you'd never willingly do away with it, would you?


Mexico has a long road to traverse to get to a society that has basic needs completely covered. They have taken steps to get it accomplished. The assets that Mexico has are many. They have a very resource rich land. It is also varied and the people of Mexico are very hard working and ingenious and invent solutions all the time.

Mexico has a strong industrial sector, a fair to good pharmaceutical production sector, it has all kinds of resources for energy that is both green and fossil fuel, and it has really well educated doctors, engineers, dentists, teachers, professors, architects, artists, scientists, etc.

Mexico has Infonavit. Where working Mexicans can buy a home with the mortgage sponsored by the government. It has multiple benefits. Government jobs are stable and the pension system is massive. They have universal health care, and the government pays private childcare providers for early preschool ed and babycare. So working parents can go to work.

The UNAM, UADY, etc. The entire Universidad Autonoma de Mexico and etc all are public universities. If you get there you can graduate without student loan debt.

Mexico has its advantages. The issue is not being able to invest in their own infrastructure Annatar. The elites stole the money for years and years. Money for building schools that are public and free in small and medium-sized towns never materialized until recently. Most of Mexico is poor and therefore never got beyond a basic elementary school education level. It limited the industries they could develop in Mexico. You can't offer high-tech and managerial skills to other investor nations if you have people who never went beyond the sixth grade.

They are remedying that situation. That is why the majority of the refugees and asylum seekers at the border are not Mexican anymore Annatar. Mexico is being able to retain a lot of the young people now because they are the beginning of the wave of young Mexicans who had high schools in their towns and were able to attend university for free. Millions of them finally are forging ahead in their own nation. So,the ones on the border are from Venezuela and unstable nations in Central America, like Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Guatemala. Costa Rica, Panama and Belize are stable. Colombia is stable but you have some leaving because of inflation and violence with the fentanyl and drug lords in the jungles creating instability.

Socialism works. But it requires cooperation between many nations, honest and not corrupt government, and skilled and expert administration, trustworthy and sound policy, and shared responsibilities among many sectors of society. War, pressure from foreign banks bloodsucking and hiking interest rates on Latin American workers is not going to help stabilize our region. For example, the average credit card interest rate in Mexi co is about 79% APR. In the USA that is illegal. It is not illegal in many nations of Latin America.

Abusive credit practices and many other aspects of economics in Latin America is really horrible. It does not allow sustainable economic growth.

The wealthy and elite are traitors to their own countries. They allow foreigners and foreign banks to rule in their nation and give up both power and agency as long as they enrich themselves and never pay taxes.

It spells a deep hatred for the elite in our nations. But they are backed by the US government who only loves the YES people and if they betray the needs of their own people in their own nation and only give a shit about being on the good side of US interests in the region? All is fine with the world.

And it is not. It created really bad conditions and they wind up going North. To the US border. The only place with jobs and stability. That is a boomerang effect due to bad foreign policy on the part of the USA. And the Latin American elite that permits such abusive lack of real thought national domestic programs for their own people.

It is a lose and lose situation.

If you want a lack of asylum seekers, logically you study the conditions that lead to people fleeing their home nations. You nail down the reasons and go and analyze how to either fix that situation or discourage people fleeing. You have to be against wars and conflict. Both civil wars within nations, and external wars between two different nations. You study economic policies that lead to super low wages and not enough money earned for workers who aspire to owning their own land and home, having a way of transporting themselves to their work sites, and education for themselves and their children. That is either free or low cost and affordable.

You look at what has to happen for that nation to stabilize and have needs met for their citizens. That means only thinking of exploiting and profit for some rich investors in nations like the USA, UK, France, Germany, Japan, etc is a losing proposition. Got to have people within that nation be able to live decently. ALL OF THEM. Not some tiny percentage of plutocratic local asskissers of whoever is the superpower du jour. It does not work for them.

Socialism is about pooling all the resources in a government system and distributing it out as some sort of public service. It could be free public education programs, free health care, free or subsidized housing, etc. In Mexico I noticed on my CFE bill, they have government sponsored help with the light bill. The less you use and the more you save? The government puts a percentage of your entire bill in a little pot that is shared and when you can't pay out of your own pocket the government gives you some cash to pay it for you. That is a form of socialism Annatar.

In Colorado they had the LEAP program for low income Coloradans to have heat and light in the winter and summer months that tended to be the high bill seasons. Due to air conditioning and heating for snowy months.

It works. But, the US is full of people who do not really identify with their correct socioeconomic classification. Most of them think they are middle class, and or aspire to be wealthy and elitist. Can't have that mentality. Got to identify as what you are. If you can become homeless easily within three or four missed paychecks? You are working class. No longer have to work because you live off of your investments and assets? You are ruling class. Still got to work but if you are laid off and you can live off your savings and retirement nest egg for at least four years? Middle class you are. Paid off mortgage with a small pension and working part time to meet the bills? Lower middle class.

Too many people in the USA think they are a step or two from being millionaires. It is really strange. Most of them make less than $65,000 dollars US a year...they are far from middle class if they adjust for inflation, taxes and expenses, but they think they are well off or aspire to be.

They are very fantasy drive and identify with some lying fraud person, or someone like Biden who is a professional career politician who is used to neoliberal policies that only favor people like Michael Bloomberg or Zuckerberg, lol. It is extremely stupid to think that they are the working person's choice for president. :lol: :lol:
Last edited by Tainari88 on 27 Sep 2023 22:22, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Neo
#15288580
@ingliz

If Trump actually gets convicted and locked up, I will be amazed. Trump needs to be convicted and locked up and has no business being allowed to run for President. But the US has a culture of allowing rich people to be above the law and act with impunity. A lot of the banksters got bailouts and were never prosecuted for their crimes. If there is a government shutdown then members of Congress shouldn't get paid until they get the government reopened.
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