[skinster]

Hate to break it to you geniuses, but humans ain't clownfish.

The lyrics of this song by my friend Francis are based on reality, I recommend reading them.

[Rancid]

There are always going to be personalities that are extraordinarily obsessed over one thing or another, perhaps arguably to an unhealthy extent. The ones who get worked up over assuming gender identity are like the " social justice girl" , in the video below. As to the increase in nudity leading to the sexualization of young people , in Germany , in regards to free body culture, people tend to be even more open to public nakedness , without there seeming to be sexual objectification. This might shock the likes of @Godstud , and @skinster , and maybe even your own sensibilities , but in German society at large , this is popularly an accepted practice.

( No exposed genitals , but featuring some scenes of rear nudity . Viewer discretion is advised )

General nakedness is not really what I'm getting at as a problem though. It's more like like force girls into emulating grown women with respect to how they present themselves to the world. We embedded an obsession with appearance and beauty into young girls. Often, there is a sexualization component attached to it all. This primes girls to start to place their self-worth on their appearance first and fore most.

I have to think about this more, but it's something like that.

In fact, it's a kind of paradox. In being so prudish about nudity, when we do flirt with it, it's always in this over sexualized way. Perhaps that is precisely why Americans are so prudish about nudity, because to the American brain, skin = sex. So when they do dress up their little girls, they make them look like they're going to club to attract dudes.

[Godstud]

Americans are prudish about sex, but glorify violence.

[ingliz]

@skinster

"humans ain't clownfish"

I was mocking your 'it's natural' argument when it comes to homosexuals - Animals do it, so it must be OK.

What happened to the 'harm' argument you like to use against transexuals?

The health risks associated with anal sex are well documented.

And that ties into the 'informed consent (or lack of it in children - 16-year-olds)' argument

Why are you being so inconsistent?

Are you giving up your principles and following the herd in this instance?

[Godstud]

@ingliz Everything associated with Trans ideology is about altering and changing yourself thru medical procedures. That is what skinster meant. You're an idiot not to acknowledge that reality, but I admire the tenacity you have as a good cultist. You are very familiar with their rhetoric.

Your cult will support you, until time as you disagree with a single piece of their dogma, and then you'll be a transphobic TERF racist.

[ingliz]

altering and changing yourself through medical procedures.

If your new argument is 'it's unnatural.' According to The American Society of Plastic Surgeons, there were 15.6 million cosmetic procedures and 6.8 million reconstructive procedures performed in the US in 2020 to alter and change appearances

Why aren't you railing against that?

Why are transexuals so special?


Edited for fluency, and then the formatting went to pot twice.

[SpecialOlympian]

Lmao “homosexuality is observed in animals.”

If you can’t figure out that transphobia is just rebaked 90’s homophobia you’re fucking hopeless. Thirty years later and it’s the same shit about ~grooming and recruiting children~ into the lifestyle

I fully support the bigots here in being as loud and hysterical as they can be. You are doing your hateful cause a service.

[ingliz]

@Pants-of-dog

observed in other animals too so it's clear it is as natural as heterosexuality.

Animals do it, so it must be OK.

In all four species of this insect - Neotrogla - females have penises, and males have vaginas.

Seahorses defy gender roles, with the males bearing eggs and giving birth to their young.

And don't be fooled by a female hyena's erection. What you see swinging, complete with what appear to be testicles (they are labia that have folded up and fused), is not a penis but an enlarged clitoris.





p.s. For the curious...

When mating, a female hyena retracts the faux penis on itself, much like pushing up a shirtsleeve, creating an opening into which the male inserts his penis.

[Godstud]

@SpecialOlympian There are no similarities between Trans people and sexual orientation. They are different things and you know this.

Homosexuals do not ask for medical procedures to be done on children. What consenting adults humans do with each other, isn't a problem. I have never changed how I viewed that, and I was very much behind homosexuals not being discriminated against. Thing shave changed, but you refuse to acknowledge this reality, as it would pulverize your argument.

@ingliz You lost the plot. You're ranting without thought or purpose, now. Fool. Adults can do what they want to themselves. Leave the children alone, perverts!

[ingliz]

Homosexuals do not ask for medical procedures to be done on children.

Correct.

They just bugger them.

[Godstud]

@ingliz Why the homophobia?

I guess you pretending to support LGBTQ+ is another big lie, isn't it?

[ingliz]

homophobia

I have nothing against homosexuals, and they can have anal sex with whoever consents to pleasure them as long as it breaks no law.

My point is to highlight the lack of consistency, and the inconsistencies, in your admittedly shit arguments.

[skinster]

We embedded an obsession with appearance and beauty into young girls. Often, there is a sexualization component attached to it all. This primes girls to start to place their self-worth on their appearance first and fore most.

Welcome to the world of being a girl/woman. Get your daughter the book The Beauty Myth by Naomi Wolf so that she tries to break away from the conditions put on women by society.

I was mocking your 'it's natural' argument when it comes to homosexuals - Animals do it, so it must be OK.

The comparison is stupid because humans can't change sex like clownfish can. And you yourself have admitted humans can't change sex so why are you pushing this line?

The clownfish line is something trans activists do pull out, hence the song at the top of this page singing about how it's a nonsensical line.

And you have yet to answer, so I'll ask again: why are you pushing ruling class ideas like gender identity politics?

If you can’t figure out that transphobia is just rebaked 90’s homophobia you’re fucking hopeless.

No, it's not. This is a lie that trans activists use and to give you the benefit of the doubt, I believe you genuinely think this is true, but it isn't. Gender identity out of these two things is what's homophobic. What you're regurgitating is a concept called 'forced teaming'. Homosexuality is not identity-based but a sexual orientation and there are lesbians and gays who exclude people identifying as trans from their dating pool precisely because homosexual relationships are based on sex, not gender identies. If a lesbian dates a "transwoman" (trans identifying man), they are in a heterosexual relationship, not a homosexual relationship.

Someone once wrote a very good article about the creepy tactics like forced teaming used by trans activists. I've highlighted the bit that can describe tactics used by the 5 ****MEN**** - PoD, Igliz, SO, Fasces and Deutch - on this board who promote the gender cult: gaslighting and boundary violation and while I'm here, let me add that the concept of gaslighting is fundamental to gender ideology, where people are being told men who identify as women are women and vice-versa, which is a lie:

Forced Teaming, Feminism, LGB and ‘Trans Rights’
How the tactics of predators and manipulators, forced teaming, gaslighting, boundary violations and ignoring ‘no’, are used in the course of pushing ‘trans rights’.

Why are ideologies antithetical to each other being presented as natural allies? Feminism argues that gender is a mechanism of a system of oppression, that gender consists of socially constructed sexist stereotypes which are then used to exploit women. The notion that because one is female one naturally wants to care and clean, one by nature of one’s female sex is submissive, polite. LGB rights rests on the idea that same-sex attraction is real and normal and should be afforded the same rights and respect as heterosexuality. Transgenderism/transsexualism, in contrast, claims gender – women’s oppression and sexist stereotypes – are innate, or sometimes that the body has to be altered to conform because of oppression discomfort disorder. Gender dysphoria claims that the person is wrong, not the cultural sexism, exploitation or oppression. It avows ‘change the person, not the system’!

Alongside this, as the idea of human sex change has been successfully challenged and is not widely accepted, transgenderism/transsexualism began denying the reality of binary sex and its importance, which thus denies the reality of same sex attraction. Same-sex attraction is being manhandled into ‘same-gender attraction’. If lesbians can have penises, sexuality becomes an attraction to sexist stereotypes, mannerisms and fashion choices. Neither feminism nor LGB rights are comfortable bed fellows with the men’s rights activism which emerged in the late sixties and early seventies in the form of transgenderism/transsexualism. This deliberate coupling of opposing ideologies is an example of wide-scale forced teaming.

Forced teaming is a term employed by those who work on abuse, grooming and predation. It was originally coined by Gavin De Becker in his work The Gift of Fear and is also used as a concept regarding criminal activity such as con-artists and romantic scamming. The predator will create the idea that there is a shared goal, or an attitude of we are all in this together, we are allies, in order to disarm, gain trust and manipulate his target. The social contract that most people have been educated or raised in – that we should try not to offend others, be polite, be accommodating – makes forced teaming incredibly difficult to resist. In general, we don’t want to be rude and say ‘actually, your problems or goals are different to mine and so no, we should not work together’ or ‘no, I don’t feel comfortable with this’. The shared goal can be, on an individual level, as small as a man helping carry shopping to a woman’s apartment in order to gain access and rape her. Forced teaming confuses our intuition and disarms us to threat. Jennifer Lombardo wrote in Abusive Relationships and Domestic Violence ‘people use words such as “we” and “us” to trick others into thinking they are part of a team’ when they aren’t.1 It builds trust when none should be there.Forced teaming, when applied to movements, can be as large as many men claiming feminism should work towards their goals not women’s, or that the LGB should work towards heterosexual entitlement.

Forced teaming is behind the dictate of inclusiveness. It is by this way that manipulative males gain access and can control and change the goals of movements. It is how individual males have entered formerly women’s groups and formerly LGB pressure groups and can both watch what is being said and direct the narrative.

The oppressed can’t form a critique and challenge when the oppressor is sat at the writing table looking over her shoulder. The presence of the oppressor also guts the arguments that are made – it makes them situational rather than absolute, ‘but this one is nice’, ‘sometimes people are born wrong’, ‘he calls himself a lesbian but really knows he isn’t, just be polite’. It opens the door for bargaining women’s rights and boundaries, for negotiating the reality of same-sex attraction. Predators use forced teaming to recruit co-conspirators to fight their battles and do their bidding.

Individual women within a movement can be targeted by manipulative men as a way in, and then as a justification for their continued presence. This is usually done through isolation tactics so that the message can be tailored to the individual – they are told what they want to hear – and a false sense of the manipulator confiding in the target is created, the victim is now ‘special’ and a ‘friendship’ has been made. No one wants to contradict or question their friends, right? If the manipulated individual questions whether they and the predator really have shared needs and wants they will then struggle to distance themselves from the manipulator through either feelings of guilt or embarrassment. They now share in the abuser’s actions.

The movement and individuals are then used to deflect criticism in another way. The manipulator will, when faced with criticism, suddenly praise individuals or groups in an attempt to further tether themselves to them or hide behind them. It is hard for people to say ‘please don’t give me compliments’, making the tactic so successful. It is important to be aware of patterns of behaviour: the groomer will make you feel like you are different, the pattern shows that you are not.

The reliance on gaslighting (making someone doubt their own reality and perceptions)– it is at the heart of the idea that a male is really a female or honorary female, it is at the heart of transgenderism/transsexualism. This gaslighting indicates that we are dealing with abusive males, why would they not use another technique of manipulation?

Alongside this, boundary violation is key. The first boundary being the definition of woman, then female, the next boundary is one’s sense of self, then physical spaces and resources are violated. We see boundary violation on the micro level – what trans widows experience, the young men taking nude selfies in women’s shelters – and on the macro level – the males in women’s parties, claiming to be female politicians, males claiming to be included in the definition of the female sex.

De Becker asserted that if someone ignores the word ‘no’ it is the most universally significant signal that you should not trust this person. Males have asked again and again to be included in the definition of female, again and again they will not hear women’s ‘no’, they have used our single sex spaces after repeated ‘no’ from different women. Males are telling the LGB community that same-sex attraction is bigoted, they are refusing to hear the ‘no’ in response. To ignore one ‘no’ is a red flag, to ignore many is a siren and the idea that it takes more than one ‘no’ to understand is manipulation.

Jessica Orwig has reported on this in a business/criminal setting that ‘declining to hear ‘no’ is a signal that someone is either seeking control or refusing to relinquish it,’ De Becker writes later adding that, ‘If you let someone talk you out of the word ‘no’, you might as well wear a sign that reads, ‘You are in charge.”2 This is something we are witnessing amongst women and lesbians and homosexuals, they are allowing trans-identified males to talk them out of ‘no’, to talk them round. No is a complete sentence, say it firmly.

The Sexual Harassment and Prevention in College advice developed by the consultant to the Peace Corps, Nancy Newport, in an attempt to keep young female students studying abroad safe from male violence, is worth considering on both an individual level and movement wide. She outlines that ‘we all want to be culturally sensitive, to get along, to be respectful, to fit in, to not offend’ but ‘it is very important that the cultural sensitivity training provided never requires that you submit to behaviours that invade your personal boundaries and that feel unsafe or even uncomfortable to you’.3 This should be applied to relaxing boundaries and softening our analysis or speech to be sensitive to male wants, to be culturally sensitive to the transgenderist/transsexual. Newport was clear that ‘if it feels inappropriate or makes you uneasy, get yourself out of the situation. Never sacrifice yourself or your sense of safety for the sake of cultural sensitivity’.4 With regards to personal boundaries, she described how these are not just physical but also emotional, and I would argue, philosophical. These boundaries work ‘to preserve our physical and emotional integrity’ and when someone violates them or ‘gets “too close”, an alarm sounds inside. We need to listen for, respect, and respond to that alarm’.5 I am hearing alarm bells with males in feminism and feminist analysis, with those inside the LGB who deny the reality of same-sex attraction. Newport finishes with De Becker’s framework of the seven ways that predators manipulate people. The tactics are:

Forced teaming: intentional and directed manipulation to establish premature trust, example: “we’re in this together”.
Charm and niceness: manipulative, deceptive, for self-gain.
Too many details: a tactic used when people are lying.
Typecasting: a slight insult designed to manipulate a woman to feel compelled to prove its inaccuracy.
Loan sharking: unsolicited giving designed to create a feeling of indebtedness.
The unsolicited promise: false promises.
Discounting the word “no”: when someone refuses to accept “no” for an answer.6

We should all keep these tactics in mind and listen to our intuition.
https://uncommongroundmedia.com/forced- ... ns-rights/

[ingliz]

The comparison is stupid

It's your argument, not mine.

My advice. If you think an argument is stupid, don't use it.

[late]

The people behind this are bigots, if they aren't attacking one group, they are attacking a different group. It's what they are, and what they do.

There are conservatives, and they don't like change. Which is reasonable, but they also support capitalism, the greatest engine of change in human history. Awkward...

When a group gets assimilated, it's never easy. Mistakes are inevitable, the problem is simple enough, we're still humans.

But there seems to be something close to inevitability to this. If you knew history, you would know this has happened again and again and again.

The arc of history bends towards justice.

[skinster]

It's your argument, not mine.

No, it's you that brought in clownfish to suggest that because they can change sex, humans can too, and I pointed out you already believe that humans can't change sex so you attempting this silly analogy doesn't work. Also, some of the less delusional trans activists admit that humans can't change sex and that they are changing their gender only (even though it ultimately means the same thing and this is just a game of semantics and ultimately ultimately our sex is immutable).

Again, why are you pushing the ruling class's politics in the form of gender ideology? You brought this aspect of the debate here and now that cat appears to have caught your tongue.

I will note how you skated past the gaslighting and boundary violation that is part of the ideology you push. Typical..

[Pants-of-dog]

The transphobes are pushing the ruling class's politics in the form of gender ideology, and yet identify as counter cultural.

[skinster]

That's you guys

The delusions really are so strong with trans identity activists.

[Pants-of-dog]

The governor of Florida.

The many countries that have banned these procedures for trans kids.

Trump.

All these people in the ruling class are all promoting transphobic policies.

Even the TERFs in this thread have pointed out these governments are opposing trans equality. It is illogical to now claim the opposite and argue that the governments are not doing this.

[ingliz]

@skinster

Animals

Your post: #15288643

My reply: #15288698

The comparison is stupid because humans can't change sex like clownfish can.

Your argument is stupid because you are anthropomorphizing animal behaviour.