[Tainari88]

@ingliz

If Trump actually gets convicted and locked up, I will be amazed. Trump needs to be convicted and locked up and has no business being allowed to run for President. But the US has a culture of allowing rich people to be above the law and act with impunity. A lot of the banksters got bailouts and were never prosecuted for their crimes. If there is a government shutdown then members of Congress shouldn't get paid until they get the government reopened.

If you worship capitalism as the most integral part of the US system of economics and that is about profit above all else? It is in deep contradiction with a radical constitution that says a government for the people by the people, and that the people have a right to overthrow the government if it does not work for the people.

On the one hand, you got capitalism that is defined by this:

an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.
"an era of free-market capitalism

You got private owners motivated by profit. They control the vast amount of money that labor and goods and services are derived from, and they privatize it. It means they do not share it with the public. Because they are a private group that controls the profits, they determine the rules of government and that includes passing laws that favor and obligate for profit companies and organizations and stock exchanges and so on....

The government is according to the US Constitution very radical. Which part is radical:

The First and Second Amendments. The First Amendment is widely considered to be the most important part of the Bill of Rights. It protects the fundamental rights of conscience—the freedom to believe and express different ideas—in a variety of ways.


The rest are listed in this votesmart article.

https://votesmart.org/education/constit ... Amendments.

So if one is a socialist, or a communist, a fascist, an anarchist that is supposed to be constitutionally guaranteed freedom of ideas.

Yet, there have been laws passed persecuting anything that challenges the capitalistic interests of private business owners.

This video captures the contradictions of what the US Constitution promises to be, and what the capitalists as a power group have made the government become.

The previous history is useful too.

So there you have it. The capitalists manipulated the government to stop being responsive to ordinary voters and to pay attention to them only.

So, the capitalists knowing how the story of stuff works, they decided that democratic rule by an educated populace that are a majority of working class people can not be trusted to make the major power decisions. They needed to be left out of power. And the way to do that is to classify the corporations and pro profit groups as individuals, and as exceptions to the rule for the constitution to not really be radical. It should be only used to give them rights and not rights to the workers and voters. So they started on a long campaign to make sure that those with power and who make the rules are and should be above the law, and should have a right to manipulate the Senate, the House, and all the branches of government including the Supreme Court of the USA and the military too, to the point of making the regular workers and regular voters IRRELEVANT.

And they are doing a splendid job so far. Really.

Unless the US people start waking up to who is running the show in their nation and putting pressure on these people and removing them from power in some very insistent form or by any means necessary this bullshit we are experiencing is not going to change.

[Politics_Observer]

@Tainari88

Well the US was founded by slave owners and wealthy people who didn't want to pay their taxes. Remember the slogan "No taxation without representation." But representation for whom?

When the US was founded slaves and non property owners were not allowed to vote. So what they were really saying was "No taxation without representation for the slave owning and wealthy colonists." The American Revolution was about money and the US constitution has always been written to protect the wealthy.

[Tainari88]

@Tainari88

Well the US was founded by slave owners and wealthy people who didn't want to pay their taxes. Remember the slogan "No taxation without representation." But representation for whom?

When the US was founded slaves and non property owners were not allowed to vote. So what they were really saying was "No taxation without representation for the slave owning and wealthy colonists." The American Revolution was about money and the US constitution has always been written to protect the wealthy.

There is an interesting bit of history Neo. Slaves, and indentured servants in the Southern states and in the first thirteen colonies had a rebellion based on class solidarity. The ones being oppressed by the landed gentry got together (regardless of being white, black, mixed race, etc. It was based on class...That movie with Matthew McConahey the True State of Jones touches on that a bit...

To break up solidarity of the many without means or money or land...and without rights all got together and fought as a unit. It scared the living daylights out of the landed gentry and they did their classic divide and conquer tactics that still work to this very day.

Neo, if you start at 2:30 Bacon's rebellion is given a good background. How war starts and how it ends. Most of the beginning of this video is about the early history of your native state of Georgia. You should see it.

There is solidarity between groups until a war and interests conflict. Solidarity is the answer. But only if you see people who have the same needs and desires and have a sense of what is just.

If the wealthy manipulate the vast majority of the rest who are not wealthy? Nothing really gets accomplished in a democracy. It all is corrupted.

[Godstud]

@Neo Neither Trump nor Biden should be permitted to run in the 2024 election, as they are both criminals, with both being simply too senile.

[QatzelOk]

@Tainari88

Well the US was founded by slave owners and wealthy people who didn't want to pay their taxes. Remember the slogan "No taxation without representation." But representation for whom?

When the US was founded slaves and non property owners were not allowed to vote. So what they were really saying was "No taxation without representation for the slave owning and wealthy colonists." The American Revolution was about money and the US constitution has always been written to protect the wealthy.

The American Revolution was about cancelling Britain's Quebec Act of 1774 - which gave the Ohio Valley to the French and the First Nations (Native Americans).

If the local rednecks had not fought against the British, the 13 colonies would never have expanded beyond the Appalachians.

Two years later, in the 1776 Declaration of Independence, the last of the Intolerable Acts of King George III, and I quote:

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions

I don't know why USA citizens continue to tell themselves the lie that their "country" was founded on high principles. It was founded as a way of killing all the nations of North America, and it worked. Congratulations.

Now go vote for some criminal.

[SpecialOlympian]

@ingliz

If Trump actually gets convicted and locked up, I will be amazed. Trump needs to be convicted and locked up and has no business being allowed to run for President. But the US has a culture of allowing rich people to be above the law and act with impunity. A lot of the banksters got bailouts and were never prosecuted for their crimes. If there is a government shutdown then members of Congress shouldn't get paid until they get the government reopened.

No party will ever convict a president because then we might need to hold them accountable for war crimes.

It sets a very bad precedent.

[Rich]

The American Revolution was about cancelling Britain's Quebec Act of 1774 - which gave the Ohio Valley to the French and the First Nations (Native Americans).

If the local rednecks had not fought against the British, the 13 colonies would never have expanded beyond the Appalachians.

I don't know why USA citizens continue to tell themselves the lie that their "country" was founded on high principles. It was founded as a way of killing all the nations of North America, and it worked. Congratulations.

The Drang Nach Western was certainly one of the motivations for independence. The American War of Independence was really the beginning of the modern National Socialism that would be developed much further in the French Revolution in the ensuing decades. Conscription is the most extreme form of socialism and the American Nationalists used conscription.

Conscription was certainly used during the Middle Ages and early modern period, even if their was a greater reliance on volunteers and mercenaries. However this limited socialism was Monarchical Socialism not National Socialism. Take England for example. One day you could be ordered to fight the Scots, the next King would be Scottish. One day you could be ordered to fight the Dutch, the next your King would be Dutch. One day you could be in conflict with the Hanoverians, the next your King would be elector of Hanover and you would be fighting alongside his German troops.

The American Republican Nationalists won their war though their alliance with the Dutch, French and Spanish, after that they never really faced serious external enemies in the America's hence they moved away from National Socialism, while it developed further in Europe, where there was bitter inter nation rivalry, with no Nation establishing dominance like the US did in the Americas.

[skinster]

[Tainari88]

The Drang Nach Western was certainly one of the motivations for independence. The American War of Independence was really the beginning of the modern National Socialism that would be developed much further in the French Revolution in the ensuing decades. Conscription is the most extreme form of socialism and the American Nationalists used conscription.

Conscription was certainly used during the Middle Ages and early modern period, even if there was a greater reliance on volunteers and mercenaries. However, this limited socialism was Monarchical Socialism, not National Socialism. Take England for example. One day you could be ordered to fight the Scots, the next King would be Scottish. One day you could be ordered to fight the Dutch, and the next your King would be Dutch. One day you could be in conflict with the Hanoverians, the next your King would be the elector of Hanover and you would be fighting alongside his German troops.

The American Republican Nationalists won their war though their alliance with the Dutch, French and Spanish, after that they never really faced serious external enemies in the America's hence they moved away from National Socialism, while it developed further in Europe, where there was bitter inter nation rivalry, with no Nation establishing dominance like the US did in the Americas.

The USA did Manifest Destiny. They went on a stealing rampage that lasted at least one hundred years. Lol.

They stole it from Native American tribes, and they stole the labor of Africans for another couple of centuries. They stole labor for building the railroads in the USA linking the Atlantic with the Pacific and the Panama Canal Zone.

They went to war with Mexico to take half of the Mexican territories. Invaded Mexico City and occupied it and nearly decided to rule Mexico. They found it too onerous a task because ruling a bunch of Roman Catholics being Protestant and Anglo, and the Mexicans Indians, and Roman Catholics with a dense population density and enormous resistance in general--plus the man in charge of making the decision of keeping all of Mexico was a Roman Catholic Irishman who respected the religious affiliations of the Mexican state and just said, no thank you. They gave up on that endeavor. But they did steal literally California, Arizona, Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico and a big chunk of Texas completely. Half of the national territory of Mexico. They stole and expanded all over the place. The invasions of the big three Caribbean islands of Cuba, Dominican Republic, and Puerto Rico were all invaded and wrested from a weak Spanish crown. So were the colonies of Spain in the Pacific such as the Philippines, Guam and other little islands.

The USA had ambitions of wanting ex-colonies of other European powers, such as Vietnam, Afghanistan, and others.

The US is a nation founded on aggressive war tactics via violence and also using its alliances with Europe to gain territory Rich. That is why they must invest 57 cents of all tax dollars collected in propping up the Pentagon. Everything else is secondary or last on the list. If it continues with that? It will eventually cause a deep rift between the domestic needs versus its foreign policy policies of total control of the planet. They have not learned from the UK. In which the elites in England, Scotland Northern Ireland, and Wales all wound up wasting their profits from their overseas territories and colonies, and it never trickled down to the working class. Like you are Rich. Instead, it is all boomeranging out of control to kick them in the ass producing some conservative elitists who are from their former colonies. Like Sunak man. Lol.

It is ironic and very appropriate. You have produced assimilated pieces of sellout shit PMs. Who think they are more Anglo-Saxon than the Anglo-Saxons who are taking the reigns of power and applying class discrimination in their favor.
Look at this Englishman. He looks like a white as milk Englishman doesn't he? He joined the Tories and is on the ambition track. A man of honor, integrity and looking out for British interests all over the globe. Did you vote for Sunak man? Yes or no? Lol.

Lol. Didn't he have (the PM of the UK) some controversy about not giving up a USA citizenship or something? He wanted to hedge all his bets and see where he could make the most money or power or something. Lack of loyalty.

That is the value system. Throw everyone under the bus. I need to be the one who is on top. Hypocrisy reigns. How truth reveals itself. Thus what you sow you shall also reap @Rich.

Everything done in the past also is part of the present and the future. If you are full of violent takeovers of land and you treat others with disrespect and disdain? You will get a real awakening in the future and it will be in a way that you least expect it to become. It will be very humiliating. And well deserved. There is a form of justice eventually. It just takes a while to manifest in human history. But manifest it will.

Trump is a fraudster, conman, and he is the epitome of every American Manifest Destiny battle cry bullshit in the world. The Biden side are a bunch of neoliberal pro business freaks with no real national loyalties either. So the USA unless it gets its working people to wake up and take control? Will wind up burning its money, resources and power on protecting some elites that have no real national loyalties.

The truth is that nationalists do draw the line protecting their nation. But the neoliberals and the Trump types are a bunch of fakes.

And they are what a nation full of violent takeovers are going to get. Fakers.

[skinster]

[skinster]

lol

[annatar1914]

lol

@skinster :

The thing about the Liberal alliance of ideologies is that they never say they're sorry. Pointing out hypocrisy does no good because they don't care: it's about winning and beating your opponent by any means fair or foul. No apologies, they're never wrong.

This is part of the reason they hate that colossal asshole, President Donald Trump. Because he runs by the same playbook as they do. He doesn't apologize, he just does what he wants and if he's thwarted in some way he tries another tactic. He fights, same as they do. The GOP establishment are beautiful losers and pragmatic grifters without a real moral or ideological compass, and so they hate Trump for different reasons: he exposes them for being frauds.

Why should non liberals care about the Constitution if it hobbles them and the liberals don't believe in it either?

[Rancid]

I think we are trending towards another Trump presidency. What a circus that is going to be. Actually, he's making it clear on all these little speeches he's been giving at various events.

[skinster]

The thing about the Liberal alliance of ideologies is that they never say they're sorry. Pointing out hypocrisy does no good because they don't care: it's about winning and beating your opponent by any means fair or foul. No apologies, they're never wrong.

Indeed. A notable difference between the Dems and Republicans - who are both politically retarded - is that the Dems are the smug and arrogant ones that always act like they're better and above their opponents, which actually makes them even more unattractive out of these two groups, even when you get the crudeness of the other team. But the latter are at least honest. The Dems try to act as if their shit doesn't stink when their political activism doesn't go any further than virtue-signalling.

But anyway, the libs never get it. When people were okay with the weirdo Alex Jones from being censored on social media - I think he was amongst the first - some of us back then were saying he should not be censored with the awareness that he wouldn't be the last. But the Dems are absolutely fine with censoring others, again with that smug arrogance thinking it won't happen to them. And then it does. And then some of us have no sympathy left for them. Like this Bowman guy, who if he is treated as the so-called insurrectionists of Jan 6th, should have him sitting in prison for a few years and a lot of that time in solitary confinement..

I'm reminded of that nerd in the other thread who thinks attacking my party because they don't conform to delusional gender ideology is anything more than being a baby. One straw-clutching attack he made was that the party was kissing Nigel Farage's ass. Want to know why he came to that conclusion? Because the party put out a statement saying that Farage shouldn't have his bank account shut down for his political views. Imagine that then gets turned into kissing his ass.

This is liberals for you. They are beyond salvation..

[annatar1914]

Indeed. A notable difference between the Dems and Republicans - who are both politically retarded - is that the Dems are the smug and arrogant ones that always act like they're better and above their opponents, which actually makes them even more unattractive out of these two groups, even when you get the crudeness of the other team. But the latter are at least honest. The Dems try to act as if their shit doesn't stink when their political activism doesn't go any further than virtue-signalling.

But anyway, the libs never get it. When people were okay with the weirdo Alex Jones from being censored on social media - I think he was amongst the first - some of us back then were saying he should not be censored with the awareness that he wouldn't be the last. But the Dems are absolutely fine with censoring others, again with that smug arrogance thinking it won't happen to them. And then it does. And then some of us have no sympathy left for them. Like this Bowman guy, who if he is treated as the so-called insurrectionists of Jan 6th, should have him sitting in prison for a few years and a lot of that time in solitary confinement..

I'm reminded of that nerd in the other thread who thinks attacking my party because they don't conform to delusional gender ideology is anything more than being a baby. One straw-clutching attack he made was that the party was kissing Nigel Farage's ass. Want to know why he came to that conclusion? Because the party put out a statement saying that Farage shouldn't have his bank account shut down for his political views. Imagine that then gets turned into kissing his ass.

This is liberals for you. They are beyond salvation..

@skinster :

But, to give them some worldly-wise credit, they win because they fight.

I compare it by analogy to a Harlem Globetrotters event that I saw as a young man. They were playing against their literal designated losers the " Washington Generals", who were a team of all white athletes paid to look like chumps and make the Globetrotters look good, all for laughs of course. If the Globetrotters had played against a Washington Generals who decided they didn't want to look like fucking fools for real one day, all the Globetrotters tricks and bullshit would be for nothing in a competitive game.

[ingliz]

@skinster

No, the Clown - Sorry, the Communist - Party of Great Britain CPGB-ML asked its members to vote for Nigel Farage.

[Tainari88]

I think we are trending towards another Trump presidency. What a circus that is going to be. Actually, he's making it clear on all these little speeches he's been giving at various events.

The two party system is broken Rancid. The Democrats are impotent and ineffective mainly because they are sellouts and as corrupt in their real practices as the GOP. So what these media liberal folks are saying is there is not a real answer to about 40% of people who want authoritarianism and the death of representative democracy (which has been broken way before now for decades but the American brainwashed never got the memo how it was destroyed in the 20th century).

This is true. Everything Joy Reid mentions about what is going on is true. But she does not really cover how bad he Dems are because they are her bread and butter paycheck people. But, both suck. That is reality.

[Rancid]

The two party system is broken Rancid. The Democrats are impotent and ineffective mainly because they are sellouts and as corrupt in their real practices as the GOP. So what these media liberal folks are saying is there is not a real answer to about 40% of people who want authoritarianism and the death of representative democracy (which has been broken way before now for decades but the American brainwashed never got the memo how it was destroyed in the 20th century).

This is true. Everything Joy Reid mentions about what is going on is true. But she does not really cover how bad he Dems are because they are her bread and butter paycheck people. But, both suck. That is reality.

Of course.

Do you think it is worth burning it all down through Trump and MAGA? Is it worth destroy the lives of people to make the point? I think many are saying yes. So be it I guess.

[skinster]

@skinster

No, the Clown - Sorry, the Communist - Party of Great Britain CPGB-ML asked its members to vote for Nigel Farage.

Ah, you're clutching at this straw

The party when they were led by Galloway - I wasn't a member then - said to tactically vote for the party that would allow the original Brexit vote to go ahead in defence of the workers who voted in that way and were since denied their vote. How terrible! What rightwing bigot transphobe fascists *insert another word here if you like* they must be for siding with workers like that against all the other parties that denied the vote!

[Tainari88]

Of course.

Do you think it is worth burning it all down through Trump and MAGA? Is it worth destroy the lives of people to make the point? I think many are saying yes. So be it I guess.

The answer is what the Mexicans did in 2018. After three election cycles where the two dirtball parties did every dirty trick in the books, the people responded with a third party composed of smaller parties that worked for decades to build themselves up and challenge the system. They built power on the least of society. The majority are poor and lower middle class, tiny microbusiness owners, women, indigenous people. The majority of Mexico. The true democracy base. Not the elite and the powerful.

But, the difference is that the third party that kicked ass in 2018, were not people who vote for Trump people thinking that some conman asshole elitist authoritarian is going to be the answer to working class regular folk. You need a change in values of the American 40%. And you do not have that. I always knew that the USA had a very deep and rotten fascist core. It is there. In their love of violence, war spending and imperialism. I told you that Puerto Rico is part of that problem. They do not give a shit about democracy for us or anyone around the world. They interfere to KILL democracy if it interferes with the objectives of holding on to power all over the globe. So they KILLED their own democracy with that shitty mentality. The chickens came home to roost Rancid.

All the brainwashed who believed in democracy at home and freedom at home, and were not paying attention to their fascist violence in their foreign interventions do not see the connections between what you do in foreign policy, reflects the deep underbelly of who is pulling the strings of power at home.

Eventually they do that at home Rancid. Not just in the foreign policy realms.

Puerto Rico, Guam, Phillipines, DR, Cuba, Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Colombia, Chile, etc. interventions by the USA government was about raw power, violence, invasions and lack of respect for democracy as a process of determining the path of governments who believed in the republican form of votes and rule.

The USA loves violence and force. It shows it in everything. It will eventually apply that underbelly sickness that was left unchecked, for a long time to its own domestic problems.

The racist fascist element was left unmolested for decades and generations. Now, it is coming for POWER. And unless the working class start getting extremely organized and insistent like the Mexicans had to do to get rid of PRI, and PAN monopolies on government power since the 1930s....since the thirties in Mexico the elite took over a radical revolutionary land reform platform party and made is an elitist, corrupt, piece of shit bourgeois ruling class party that fucked the Mexican workers for entire generations. They got fed up with the gridlock, the sellout behavior, the lack of action on needed social programs and infrastructure. They got into action, and they KICKED ass.

My husband got contacted by the Morena party here in Mexico. All retirement age people will be getting a big increase in social security or old age pension checks in the mail if they are 60 and older. Once they hit perm status and citizenship status they get that check. That is going to transform this nation, they started sending checks to young people to study, they are going to be constructing new schools, hospitals, etc. They are busting moves everywhere. The checks are there in their hot little hands. Everyone is voting for the third party who kicked those other two in the ass.

The ones talking violence against MORENA are super wealthy people and corporations. Walmart is pissed because they taxed them to death in Mexico and so are the Ford Maquiladora of auto parts, and others. Taxed hard for the first time in their lives. They also froze funds of a bunch of Drug Cartels. Froze the money. They are threatening death and terroristic threats. But if they can't pay the hitmen because their fucking money is frozen? It is laughable.

Emma the widow of El Chapo is on TV talking about how her poor husband is locked up in Florence, Colorado in the SuperMax prison locked in a cell 23 hours a day and it is harsh and unusual punishment and her husband needs his rights to be respected. Human rights. Meanwhile, all those people El Chapo killed while he made nearly a billion dollars was never worried about.

The USA has a human problem. Humans who are corrupt who refuse to give up power, wealth or influence. So?

You either stop the fucked up USA first world consumer culture brainwashing mentality. Identify you are WORKING CLASS and Lower Middle Class. Not rich or a plutocrat. You got the same fucked up problem as other nations struggling with an elite who will not do jack shit for the lower classes. Organize yourself and kick ass with a third party.

Otherwise you will be faced with what happened in Chile in 1973. A strongman who is going to remain in power via powerful dummies who love violence for solving conflict for the next 25 years or so until people get tired of the strongman pig and go for a Leftist with democracy. Not some milktoast corrupt neoliberal like Biden. Get rid of those fucks. They never work.

That is what the answer is. Hard work. Confrontation and kicking ass. The solution.