[BeesKnee5]

In your fantasy realm perhaps, not in Britain.

The official figures have been posted and reposted.

Read them carefully before you engage in rage posting again.

I'm not rage posting, I'm mirth posting.


I'm going to give you the simplest example I can and then leave you to it

Three cars have a mileage of 50km, 100km and 150km. Averaging 100km

By using this average you assume the first and second cars will never reach 150km.


That's not how it works, the likelihood is every single one of those cars will reach 150km, but as they do they will be replaced with a car that's done zero km so the average stays roughly the same.

[noemon]

Even though we all learned in elementary about averages, you still fail at very basic math.

No claim is made that no car will ever exceed the average, obviously for it to be an average, some of the cars will and some will not. But we need the average to increase for the emissions to be brought down or up, depending on where you 're sitting.

This is not your only basic math issue.

You are totally convinced that you buying a VW ID3 makes financial sense because you do not spend a lot of money on petrol. Cool.

You have spent 50k to rent a car for 3 years, you will spend another 2-3k for electric fuel for the car over the course of its life.

When you could have bought largely the same car say a VW Golf 2 years old for 18k and spend another 2k per year to run it. After 3 years, you can sell your Golf and lose 3k in depreciation. Over the course of 3 years, your VW Golf has cost you 6k in fuel and 3k in depreciation for a total of 9k, round it to 10k if you must.

During the same 3 years your ID3 has cost you north of 50k and the real mccoy, you have also added more emissions to the environment!



But hey, if that math makes sense to you, then good luck.

[BeesKnee5]

"Even though we all learned in elementary about averages, you still fail at very basic math"

A level in pure maths and statistics.
You?

"During the same 3 years your ID3 has cost you north of 50k "

Not remotely close, but do go on.

[noemon]

"Even though we all learned in elementary about averages, you still fail at very basic math"

A level in pure maths and statistics.
You?

You would rather I not answer that, and I would also rather because I do not like bragging and find it very distasteful. It is also off-topic.

Your accusation of me not understanding averages while cute, we both know it's total nonsense.

"During the same 3 years your ID3 has cost you north of 50k "

Not remotely close, but do go on.

The price of an ID3 is 40-50k, how much is your PCP costing you with the extra finance premium in total? 30k? You could spit it out.

[BeesKnee5]

You would rather I not answer that, and I would also rather because I do not like bragging and find it very distasteful. It is also off-topic.

Your accusation of me not understanding averages while cute, we both know it's total nonsense.



The price of an ID3 is 40-50k, how much is your PCP costing you with the extra finance premium in total? 30k? You could spit it out.

If you accuse me with not having a grasp of statistics then I will challenge it. It's not bragging it's simply stating facts.

My accusation is you do not grasp that it is the emissions over the whole life of the car that matters and assume to ignore half a cars life because of the average age of cars on the road. It is a clear and obvious failure of logic.




It's funny I put ID3 into carwow a few days ago. My PCP is £350pcm for 4 years, mine cost £27,500

[BeesKnee5]

.

[noemon]

If you accuse me with not having a grasp of statistics then I will challenge it. It's not bragging it's simply stating facts.

Projecting again dude.

My accusation is you do not grasp that it is the emissions over the whole life of the car that matters and assume to ignore half a cars life because of the average age of cars on the road. It is a clear and obvious failure of logic.

As I said if you believe adding cars not on the road like classic cars and cars being scrapped for parts so you can increase the average lifetime of cars both on and off the road then go ahead. You would be wrong still, but I do not think anything will placate the crazy because even if you cook the numbers by adding off-the-road (not offroad) cars into the mix, you still do not achieve palatable break-even points.

It's funny I put ID3 into carwow a few days ago. My PCP is £350pcm for 4 years, mine cost £27,500

So 32k it is, and you claim yours was 27500, even with that your net financial loss is around 15-20k and your net emission contribution is higher than it would be had you got the Golf. How does that actually make financial or environmental sense to you?

[BeesKnee5]

Projecting again dude.



As I said if you believe adding cars not on the road like classic cars and cars being scrapped for parts so you can increase the average lifetime of cars both on and off the road then go ahead. You would be wrong still, but I do not think anything will placate the crazy because even if you cook the numbers by adding off the road cars into the mix, you still do not achieve palatable break even points.



So 32k it is, and you claim yours was 27500, even with that your net financial loss is around 15-20k.

Another maths failure based on comparing a used car to a new one, assuming PCP pays the purchase price and the second hand car is bought in cash.

You really are poor at this.

Right now I could buy a 2 year old ID3 for £20,000
Now compare that to your 2 year old golf for £18,000.

My charge cost is £500 per 20,000 miles.
The golf is paying £3,500 for 20,000 miles.

[noemon]

Another maths failure based on comparing a used car to a new one, assuming PCP pays the purchase price and the second hand car is bought in cash.

You really are poor at this.

I'm just giving you a real-world example of actual real time buyers in the market today. You also paid 10k upfront in cash for your PCP. You claimed you bought(well you actually rented) an ID3 because it made financial sense. I do not see that, as Boycey told you even after the supposed savings, you are still worse off in money.

You want to change that to a new Golf, your net loss will be lower, but you will still be at a financial loss, and you will still have produced more emissions during your ownership.

[BeesKnee5]

My up front payment was £500.

You really do just make shit up.

In case you missed it

Right now I could buy a 2 year old ID3 for £20,000
Now compare that to your 2 year old golf for £18,000.

My charge cost is £500 per 20,000 miles.
The golf is paying £3,500 for 20,000 miles.

I missed this nugget

even if you cook the numbers by adding off-the-road (not offroad) cars into the mix, you still do not achieve palatable break-even points.

How do you think whether adding or not adding off the road cars changes the amount of miles a car has driven at the end of its life?

What emissions are you adding/deducting if you do/don't include these cars?

How do you think the break even (which is based on distance travelled). Is affected by cars that are no longer travelling any distance?

Tbh, that you think these cars change the break even point just shows how out of your depth you are when criticising the Volvo report and the corrections made subsequently.

[noemon]

My up front payment was £500.
You really do just make shit up.
In case you missed it
Right now I could buy a 2 year old ID3 for £20,000
Now compare that to your 2-year-old golf for £18,000.

Perhaps, but not you. You did not buy a used electric car because you were scared and so you paid a new-car premium for your peace-of-mind, like the vast majority of new car buyers.

These figures are interesting, the EV that costs 10k more new compared to the new Golf has depreciated a lot more than the Golf in the same time period.

My charge cost is £500 per 20,000 miles.
The golf is paying £3,500 for 20,000 miles.

3,5k for the Golf for 20k I think is pretty accurate, £500 is fantasy, you are using a factor of 7 when in reality it's more like a factor of 2.

See here:

https://www.fasterevcharge.com/resource ... alculator/



£500 savings for 10k miles, £1000 for 20k and so on and forth. You overreported this by a factor of 3, just like other EV fantasists.

Your savings are still less than your depreciation. You are still on a financial loss and you are adding more emissions by driving the EV during this period of time.

[BeesKnee5]

£500 is what I have actually paid.

Mostly from home at under £0.02 per mile.

Your screenshot assumes no smart tarif, mine is 7.5p/kWh compared to the 34p/kWh used

https://octopus.energy/smart/intelligent-octopus-go/

Until April this year it was 5p/kWh.



When I bought the ID3 it had only come out 9 months earlier so no used models were available. Nothing to do with fear.

Good luck finding a brand new golf for £22,000

[noemon]

£500 is what I have actually paid.

Mostly from home at under £0.02 per mile.

Your screenshot assumes no smart tarif, mine is 7.5p/kWh compared to the 34p/kWh used

https://octopus.energy/smart/intelligent-octopus-go/

Smart tariffs increase the day tariffs by even more. Octopus is giving you 7.5p for 6 hours in the early morning, but it charges you around 30% extra on your day tariff for the rest of the day. Playing these neat little tricks never works for the consumer's benefit and it never has.

https://electriccarhome.co.uk/smart-meter-tariffs/

Even 34p the site assumes is quite low as out of contract rates reach 70-80 pence right now and in contract rates are between 35-40 pence.

Even the EV site fuel calculator is giving us rough figures of about £500 fuel savings for every 10k miles. We could just agree to go with that, instead of splitting hairs until time immemorial.

Good luck finding a brand new golf for £22,000

I am not following you here but a new golf on a lease will cost you around 20k total, when the ID3 EV costs 30k for the same lease and their retail price difference is 10k.

[BeesKnee5]

Smart tariffs increase the day tariffs by even more. Octopus is giving you 7.5p for 6 hours in the early morning, but it charges you around 30% extra on your day tariff for the rest of the day. Playing these neat little tricks never works for the consumer's benefit and it never has.

https://electriccarhome.co.uk/smart-meter-tariffs/

Even 34p the site assumes is quite low as out of contract rates reach 70-80 pence right now and in contract rates are between 35-40 pence.
.

Again you come up with utter nonsense.

My daytime rate has been 30p, same as everyone else.

Plus my electricity for the whole house is 7.5p when the car is charging, even if it's outside night hours.

There is no contract I can switch at any time.

[noemon]

Again you come up with utter nonsense.

My daytime rate has been 30p, same as everyone else.

Plus my electricity for the whole house is 7.5p when the car is charging, even if it's outside night hours.

There is no contract I can switch at any time.

Energy prices fluctuate on a per day basis. Today for example, octopus energy is offering the smart tarrif contract at 7.5 with 32p for the rest of the day, if you do not go for a smart tariff your day rate is 27p, 5 pence less than 32, in your case when you joined it would have been 25 pence.

And no dude, 7.5p it is for the whole house during those night hours and not outside those hours. It is the night hours that determine the rate and not you plugging in the car. That much is explicit from your images as well.

[BeesKnee5]

Energy prices fluctuate on a per day basis. Today for example, octopus energy is offering the smart tarrif contract at 7.5 with 32p for the rest of the day, if you do not go for a smart tariff your day rate is 27p, 5 pence less than 32, in your case when you joined it would have been 25 pence.

And no dude, 7.5p it is for the whole house during those night hours and not outside those hours. It is the night hours that determine the rate and not you plugging in the car. That much is explicit from your images as well.

No, the tariff changes based on location and then by only 1-2p, the rate dropped from 30p to 27p on the 1st of October. It's just laughable how you attempt to invent stories to fill the gaps in your knowledge.


Nothing to do with daily changes, mine has been the same since I switched 3 months ago.

I can give you almost daily examples of my day rate dropping to 7.5p when the car is charging. But hey, you know better than my electricity bill.

In this example the car charged 6-7am, 8-8:30, 9-9:30 & 10-10:30. Hence the drop in the rate.

[noemon]

No, the tariff changes based on location and then by only 1-2p, the rate dropped from 30p to 27p on the 1st of October.


Nothing to do with daily changes, mine has been the same since I switched 3 months ago.

Once you agree on a price, your prices no longer fluctuate as much and as often.

In the market, the energy prices fluctuate during the same day and certainly every day.

I can give you almost daily examples of my day rate dropping to 7.5p when the car is charging. But hey, you know better than my electricity bill.

In this example the car charged 8-8:30, 9-9:30 & 10-10:30. Hence the drop in the rate.

This is not such an example. If this graph is anything to go by, and your car represents the difference with the little ones this shows that your car is significantly heavy on the energy when compared to the rest of the entire house. It forms a lot more than the vast majority of your electricity bill, if the skyscrapers are car-charging time.

[BeesKnee5]

Once you agree on a price, your prices no longer fluctuate as much and as often.

In the market, the energy prices fluctuate during the same day and certainly every day.

When I put my post code in today I get 30.6. It's because the region affects the price by 1-2p.

It is nothing to do with daily fluctuation, again you just made shit up.

Time to admit this was bullshit mate.
"Even 34p the site assumes is quite low as out of contract rates reach 70-80 pence right now and in contract rates are between 35-40 pence."

This is not such an example. If this graph is anything to go by, and your car represents the difference with the little ones this shows that your car is significantly heavy on the energy when compared to the rest of the entire house. It forms a lot more than the vast majority of your electricity bill.

Follow the red line, I just knew you would struggle to identify the part of the graph showing price per kWh.

When the car is drawing the price in that half hour slot falls, regardless of whether it's during the cheap night rate.

[noemon]

When I put my post code in today I get 30.6. It's because the region affects the price by 1-2p.

How much do you get without a smart tariff?

It is nothing to do with daily fluctuation, again you just made shit up.

Wow, your virtue-signaling for using a novel Octopus system is quite something. Octopus using a novel system with set website prices for all, it does not mean that this is how electricity works in the UK. If you are out-of-contract rates, you pay double rates that fluctuate on a monthly basis and are extremely expensive. In contract rates, fluctuate on a daily basis, you can call the energy companies every day, and every day get different quotes, less than Octopus rates as well. They do get set though for 12,24,36 months, so you can't call them every day.

Follow the red line, I just knew you would struggle to identify the part of the graph showing price per kWh.

When the car is drawing the price in that half hour slot falls, regardless of whether it's during the cheap night rate.

Sure, that is cool of Octopus to give you an allowance after those hours. That's not what I said though, does your car represent the skyscrapers in your graph?

[BeesKnee5]

Electricity in the UK works how you choose to work it.

You can have standard rate at 27p
Tracker at 15.5p
Go at 30p daytime 9p nighttime
Intelligent 30p daytime, 7.5p night and while charging.
Agile changing every 1/2 hour based on day ahead price.
Cosy cheap rate morning and afternoon



Tbh in this time of high prices I'm just astounded that people pay the higher rate and think it's shocking more aren't made aware that there are cheaper options.

This is how electricity in the UK works if you choose to take advantage of it.

https://mysmartenergy.uk/