Fasces wrote:They weren't attacking Hezbollah. They were targetting civilian infrastructure that Hezbollah had a theoretical potential of using - in the same way that a farmer becomes a legitimate target because his wheat feeds soldiers - while simultaneously demoralizing civilians through a show of force (shock and awe).
If they are lowering their standards to that level, and calling their own attacks 'disproportionate' while doing so... if the IDF itself can say what it is...
The first time strategic bombing became a tactic of war was in WW2, the pioneers themselves said that if they lost the war, they would be prosecuted as war criminals. These men are making these decisions accepting that they are immoral and criminal, yet accepting it, because they believe in the victory.
You are in a position where you simultaneously accept that immorality, in theory, but are in complete denial about the ethical cost - despite the fact that there is no ethical cost to you. You're not stuck in an impossible trolley problem between protecting your comrades and killing civilians. Despite that, you want to have your cake and eat it too - bombing of this nature is a war crime, but Israel doesn't commit war crimes, as such, this bombing was not a war crime even if Israel itself characterizes it as such.
They have to weigh the costs and benefits of their decisions in a very real way, and they recognized their own hypocrisy. Why can't you?
It costs you literally nothing to condemn this action - with zero practical effect - and yet you're spending energy trying to jump through intellectual hoops to justify the unjustifiable.
This is the issue I have on this forum with @JohnRawls on almost everything where he knows the truth (especially the actions and the decisions that the US government does wrong that are morally, ethically, and historically immoral and wrong yet he never acknowledges it either. He feels that the US government has to be backed by him, hell or high water because they are the good guys in the world that saved the world from Russian aggression. His hatred of the Communists even though fucking Putin is not a communist he is a Right-wing fucking nightmare fascist, yet he insists that he has to be loyal to the good guys that are the US government). He is doing the same with the IDF.
I do not have a problem acknowledging atrocities committed against civvies and innocent people who did nothing to deserve mass death. That is what backing human rights is about in the world. WWII ended and they founded the United Nations to try to prevent from another world war from happening. Why? Because if you do not start implementing universal standards of universal human rights? You do not start respecting the parameters of international law? You do not start respecting the borders and territories of nations who are sovereign and independent? Then another WWIII will happen!
That starts with being OBJECTIVE about immoral behavior and unethical and inhumane behavior. No matter who that nation or government IS!!
Th United States of America is the nation with the most arms in the world. It is the nation that has engaged in the most expensive wars in the last 100 years. It arms a lot of nations all over the world. If you do a cursory search of how many legitimately elected governments have been toppled by the CIA, and other intelligence agencies funded by the US government over the years? It is a lot of governments. They are destabilizing whole regions of the world. Why? They want to be the only superpower controlling the entire globe for the next century. No matter how many innocents die, and how many democracies fall to their machinations. It is IMMORAL in the extreme. Yet, they have people like John Rawls thinking they are the good guys in history.
No such thing as good guys, bad guys and black or white shit in human history. Humanity is COMPLEX. It is a mixture of events and people that are full of contradictions, paradoxical crap and difficult to solve problems. Letting the ones doing the damage off the hook because of blind loyalties to myths in your own mind is not facing the truth of what human beings are in this world.
Real civilians are being bombed, killed and destroyed because some asshole in a position of power wants to win over a side that is probably reacting to a lack of some ability to negotiate or reach an agreement. What religion and politics are in this world are attachments to ideas of power. Spiritual power for the religious and political power for the secular. If you allow yourself to be blinded by power and gaining it? You wind up destroying the world in your wake.
The world can not be controlled by human ambitions. All you need to do to realize this fact is look at the sun or the moon in the morning. We are dependent on those heavenly bodies.
People talking about living in Mars? After we trash this planet we are going to go to Mars to live. Yeah, right.
It took billions of years to have the correct conditions to be able to have mammals even be commonplace species in this planet. A bunch of lucky breaks. We depend on the good will and laws of this world. Thinking that humanity is made up of some simplistic chains of events that are easy to reproduce in some other planet that we can then trash again because we never learned to live with sane limits is STUPIDITY in the biggest way.
This Isreali Palestinian conflict that people like John Rawls keep defending the actions of the unjustifiable has to do with his sense of attachment to the idea of GOOD GUYS.
It is simplistic and cartoonish. None of that shit exists in political life of human governments. What one needs to do is follow universal human rights and universal international laws and allow no tolerance for abuse of power from very powerful nations used to abusing everyone they can abuse.
Because once the humans being abused get fucking angry and do not care if they live or die anymore because another day of abuse is not tolerable for them anymore? They will be suicidal and ready to take everyone who did that shit to them...making their lives mean nothing, and not caring if they live or not anymore. They will say...what the fuck, let me take down these abusive fucks on my way out of this hopeless existence.
That is what happens when you do not see the suffering of the others who are on the receiving end of all this immorality!!