Cuba has proven that capitalism and technology are failures - Page 135 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15297648
KurtFF8 wrote:Cubans are allowed to leave the country, this is just false.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cuba ... B20151201/

In Canada, a lot of doctors have moved to the USA over the decades to make more money because of the public health system in Canada. If doctors in Canada made the same money as the average worker per some Marxist utopia I would imagine the overwhelming majority of them would leave. This sort of thing is why they built walls along the East/West Berlin and North/South Korean borders, and why many talented Cubans have defected over the last 60 years.
#15297649
Unthinking Majority wrote:If you live and work in Cuba and aren't allowed to leave the island by the government to go live and work in another country then yes you are a slave. That's why so many Cubans have had to defect to other countries or flee across the channel to Florida to escape.

Cuba has recently loosened some of these rules, especially since Fidel's death, which is good.


You are allowed to leave the island UM. I do not know where you get that information of yours. In fact, Mexico has a program called Comarca that gives Cubans working visas and permission to stay in Mexico fairly easily.

You do have to pay immigration fees. I have met a lot of Cubans. You do have to go back to Cuba once every two or three years and make a brief visit. Just to keep your status as an active Cuban citizen. You find Cubans in Italy, France, Spain, all over Europe, and you find them in the African continent as doctors and engineers and scientists and professors at local African universities. You find them all over Central America and South America. Also they traveled frequently in the past to the USSR and to China.

The issue was the USA who would not let them get visas recently to go to the USA. It used to be that once you got to Florida or Miami or NYC or something? You would automatically get help from the US government like sponsored housing, food stamps, social services and job support. It made it a great destination for Cubans looking for a middle class life.

Then Jimmy Carter made a public statement about Fidel Castro having his jails full of political prisoners or dissidents and having a lack of human rights in Cuba. Jimmy Carter was actually quite respected by Fidel Castro and Castro thought him a sincere man with sincere Christian beliefs and Christian values that he actually respected. I was surprised when I read all the opinions he held about Jimmy Carter. Lol. And he got pissed off that Carter thought of him as some dictatorial ogre. Lol. So he said hmmm, my jails are full of political dissidents eh? They are full of common criminals.

And the Mariel Boat Cubans happened in 1980. And indeed the US government had to take them in. It was not some upper class Cubans from the 1960s fleeing the appropriation of their property like the Bacardi owning family....or the many elite Cubans who lost their investments and had to flee being taxed or losing their profits in a new state owned economy. It was ordinary criminals and working class Cubans who wanted a middle class life.

The US government loves to spout shit about Cuba that is not true UM.

The Mexican-residing Cubans often want to continue to the USA. But, they have relatives in the USA and many of the relatives find living in the US a very difficult thing. A Mexican immigrant can do a lot better in the US economy than a Cuban who has lived their entire life in Havana. Simply, because the Mexicans are used to a very harsh capitalist system. No one from the government pays your rent in Mexico. There are no food stamp programs or subsidies for paying your electricity bill, water bill, gas food, or basics. The wages often obligate the poorest Mexicans to send their kids to work from an early age and everyone works constantly to make ends meet. It is not the middle-class life from Good Housekeeping magazine that they have seen on check stands in grocery stores.

Does anyone really consider how Cubans survive with blockades and restricted severely trade with many nations that the US imposes on the rest of the nations in Latin America and other places? According to international law you are not supposed to restrict trade to sovereign nations and their ability to engage in trade relationships. The US does it because it is pissed off that Cuba is independent of the US's government control. As if the entire Caribbean and Latin America is their personal playground and they make the rules and the many nations of the Americas have to obey them. It is imperialistic, oppressive and wrong. Immoral. They did not like Fidel Castro. He was a dictator. They tried to invade. They tried to murder him and topple him. They tried a lot of shit. It all failed.

But they love dictators and nasty politicians in many other nations. They love those assholes as long as they are their assholes. Which means that they are obedient to what the Washington DC crowd wants to happen in those nations. Just get somebody that agrees with the DC agenda and the USA's intelligence community.

Castro had a battle with Fulgencio Batista. Who was also a dictator but someone the US sugar industries and US investors had a working relationship with and whom they could control from afar. They had no problem with Batista's ties with the American Mafia and Lucky Luciano, etc. No, no problem with that shit. The problem was Fidel Castro being nationalistic and caring about Cuba first, Cuba second, and Cuba third and not being compliant with US demands of controlling the Cuban economy and the Cuban currency and Cuban investments of their prominent millionaires and elites in the Eastern Seaboard of the USA.

Cuba like the Phillipines and Puerto Rico and many other nations the US forces have invaded in the Past had to be compliant and conform to US demands for CONTROL. The US has to control all the nations near the USA and also even far from the USA like the Phillipines. They have to control everyone. And Cuba was a favorite toy island of theirs and they did what they wanted.

Do they consider the conditions lived by the Cuban guajiros or peasants or the issues with a mafioso related president like Fulgencio Batista? They do not give a shit. For them it was all about manipulating the internal politics of Cuba. It was all to benefit the interests of the USA government. No one else. The US government policy for Cuba was based on what the corporations and investor class wanted to go on in Cuba.

All that is never discussed among the people who only buy the US version of events in Cuba.

If they truly cared about the Cuban people, and Cuban freedom and Cuban civil rights and Cuban well being? Everything would have been very different in Cuba. No need for blockades, and no need for assassination attempts of 600 plus times against Fidel Castro.

No need for the Bay of Pigs.

The Cubans who thought the rise of Fidel was about a new Cuban Revolution of a liberal and freedom loving democracy styled after the Kennedy administration and US liberalism and free market and etc etc. They were upset. Upset that their dreams of American model democracy was not forthcoming. They believed US foreign policy was about democracy, freedom and the American way. It never was. It is about lies, invasions, manipulations, killing, blood in the streets, mafia people in control of nations that do not belong to the USA on paper....

It is sickening that in 2023 that fucking old worn out blockade and sanctions still exist against Cuba. Hoping against hope that Cuba crumbles internally enough so that the US can sweep in once more and make it a de facto colony like it has in Puerto Rico all this time. They had a chance to do a good job in Puerto Rico. Make Puerto Rico a prosperous place for Puerto Ricans, stable and with good jobs, and plenty of opportunities and allow the Boricuas to vote freely without manipulating them and or lying to them about honoring their democratic votes. They never did so. They showed the Cubans that the final plot for Cuba might be, empty out the island of Cubans, let the Crypto brothers and crypto currency hotel vultures and other corporations use Cuba as a haven for tax dodging, have drug dealing in the street and crime running rampant and car dependency...then blackouts, and closed hospitals, schools, and never invest in building up the local economy. Just suck it all out. And empty it out of native Puerto Ricans and allow the land to be bought cheaply by the American greed banksters and investors....

Give up your sovereignty, your culture, your history, and your land to the Yankees who run the world. Be grateful for the crumbs that fall off of their tables. After all they bring FREEDOM and JUSTICE to Cuba, to Puerto Rico, to the Philippines, to Guam, to American Samoa, and to everywhere their talons dig in....because the nations filled with these people who are not from the USA and who are not English speaking assimilated Protestant capitalists who are elites......are not HUMAN. That would be that they are equal in their eyes and deserving of respect for their own path chosen in this world. No, can't allow the freedom to choose their own way in the world. Has to be the way of the US government and their rich backers....or blockades, wars, invasions, and destruction. That is the choice. Carrot or the stick diplomacy. Recently it is much more about sticks.

They are just trash.

That is how they think of all these nations of ours. Trash to be manipulated.

You better humanize completely these so called Cuban slaves, or Puerto Rican slaves, or Mexican slaves and fill in the blank slaves you keep calling them.

Because they are not slaves. They want freedom for being people with desires and thoughts and aspirations in life like everyone else.

If it is hard for you to conceive of that? Then I would say you have an issue with class snobbery or racism or some shit in your brain keeping you from seeing them as your equals in everything. And the problem is that you refuse to see the connection to them because for you being poor, or being Latin American or being lower class or being DIFFERENT than you are....is such a huge obstacle that your humanity is in question.

If that is the case? Work on yourself. Not on Cuba and the Cubans. Work on your own blocks in a mind filled with shitty propaganda for decades about a culture or language or society you have no fucking clue about. Do not live in ignorance forever. Do something about it.
Then they wonder why everything backfires on them in human history.

They are seriously ignorant.
#15297658
Unthinking Majority wrote:https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cuba-usa-migrants-healthcare-idUSKBN0TK58B20151201/

In Canada, a lot of doctors have moved to the USA over the decades to make more money because of the public health system in Canada. If doctors in Canada made the same money as the average worker per some Marxist utopia I would imagine the overwhelming majority of them would leave. This sort of thing is why they built walls along the East/West Berlin and North/South Korean borders, and why many talented Cubans have defected over the last 60 years.


Your article is from 2015 and is outdated. Cuba has since adopted a new constitution and has new rules around migration. The Canada brain drain is often exaggerated as well, but I'm not sure how it's relevant here. In the case of Cuba: the blockade is designed to make conditions worse in addition to incentives that are offered by the US to induce the brain drain. It's an intentional strategy to strangle Cuba.
#15297662
Unthinking Majority wrote:... has a point about community and human interaction. However, when I was a child everyone on my street had a car but they all also had children, and our families all interacted with each other, mainly because all the kids wanted to play with each other.

So maybe the issue is also that people don't have many or any children anymore to bring people together for interactions.


"Interacting with each other" is something that even rats in a controlled maze do. I am more interested in how the qualities of this important "interaction" has deteriorated in the last century because of the takeover of public space by cars.

In Cuba, the kids basically control the streets... like they are supposed to do so that they get a well-rounded social education. Social capital, social skills, "it takes a village (to raise a child).

By playing in city streets full of adults walking (rather than SUVs that can kill you)... children also get to talk to and witness... many aspects of adult life and of the social web all around them.

Rich Western children have the finest video games to play with... alone in the basement of their parent's isolated suburban housing unit, and generally grow up with stunted social personas.

Lacking normal levels of empathy or compassion or social adhesion... school shootings are only shocking because no one wants to admit just how deep a social failure suburbs and media-viewing-life are.

As I mentionned earlier, all the vintage 50s cars in Cuba (Almendrón), demonstrate how Cuba "left" the American world just before car companies re-built the human environment to make their products more confortable.

Cuba Unique wrote: It turns out that, at the end of World War II, thousands of war tanks and guns were left in U.S. Army warehouses and parking lots, along with tons of steel from Japanese and German weapons and ships. ...All the war scrap began to be used for the construction of automobiles.

For Americans, who were enjoying an unprecedented economic boom at the time, car ownership was established as one of the fundamental benchmarks of prosperity and status....


Image
North American car ownership levels make this scene impossible here
#15297680
QatzelOk wrote:"Interacting with each other" is something that even rats in a controlled maze do. I am more interested in how the qualities of this important "interaction" has deteriorated in the last century because of the takeover of public space by cars.

In Cuba, the kids basically control the streets... like they are supposed to do so that they get a well-rounded social education. Social capital, social skills, "it takes a village (to raise a child).

By playing in city streets full of adults walking (rather than SUVs that can kill you)... children also get to talk to and witness... many aspects of adult life and of the social web all around them.

Rich Western children have the finest video games to play with... alone in the basement of their parent's isolated suburban housing unit, and generally grow up with stunted social personas.

Lacking normal levels of empathy or compassion or social adhesion... school shootings are only shocking because no one wants to admit just how deep a social failure suburbs and media-viewing-life are.

As I mentionned earlier, all the vintage 50s cars in Cuba (Almendrón), demonstrate how Cuba "left" the American world just before car companies re-built the human environment to make their products more confortable.



Image
North American car ownership levels make this scene impossible here


No one talks about how owning a car is a pain in the ass in general. You got the car insurance, the registration fees, the price of gasoline and maintenance costs, and the pollution generated by driving cars. How much healthier it is to ride bicycles and or walk or use scooters but you have to create the infrastructure for that.

Mexico in its smaller cities like Mérida have low car ownership. The vast majority of families do not own cars. And that Cuban-looking scene is very common here as well. They also invested heavily recently in buses that are fuel efficient or run incredibly efficiently. I like it.

Also, Mexican colonial cities were built around roundabouts from the 19th century for horses and horse drawing carriages. The streets are narrow and not built for a lot of automobile traffic, much of the historic centers are not really open to automobiles Q.

I hate dealing with cars. In general. In Denver it was a necessity because of the lack of real public transportation that is affordable but they are changing a lot lately. I think things are improving. Cars are getting just too expensive to deal with. Your average new car in the states is easily above 28k dollars. Here in Mexico a new economy car from a Chinese car company you are looking at $14,000 dollars average price.

Most Mexicans just hold on to their old clunkers forever.

My block has five cars that are remodeled Datsuns from the 1970s and a bunch of VW Beetles from the 1970s as well. They keep that shit going forever because investing in another car is expensive.

I think the solution is lots of convenient public transportation, walking and biking. Period. No one likes living in those suburbs where you are car dependent and you get a low walking score. I eliminated all neighborhoods like that from my list of buying a house. Some suburb that I was stuck with a car or can't buy food, or pick up my kid from school, or walk to a public park, or buy water or do anything without some private car? No, it sucks. I need to live without a car someday. You need to be younger and have good reflexes and be alert. The older you get the worse you are reacting in time to bad drivers. My eighty five year old dentist drives a Honda Fit...and it looks like she crashed a couple of times....I tell her Doctora Conchita, stop driving...you are getting too old.

She does not want to give up her freedom. I say just get a publico or a bus or call an uber or something. Or take a bike or trike for adults. Lol.

All that alienated crap Q is horrible. I hate all that alienated screen stuff. I love writing on here. You will not see me zombied out playing video games. I bought books mostly. Olf fashioned ones made of paper to read for Christmas presents. I hate to think technology is more important than human relationships.
#15297693
Tainari88 wrote:You are allowed to leave the island UM. Many are allowed to leave./quote]
These migration restrictions were lifted for many recently. And then 2 years later (2015) they slapped them back on doctors because they started to leave.

I live in Canada which has socialized medicine like Cuba. Their salaries are limited. Over the decades many Canadian doctors left for the US to make more money, and now a lot of people have a hard time finding a family doctor.



I never called Puerto Ricans or Mexicans "slaves".



They explain why doctors in Cuba are not allowed to migrate outside of Cuba without the government's permission?


This is all a bunch of nonsense based on your false assumptions backed by zero evidence. Does Puerto Rico or the US have socialized medicine? So please do not accuse me of "ignorance".

Go have a loved one wait 8 hours in an ER waiting room or waiting 5 months to see a psychiatrist for mental health treatment and tell me about "humanity". How is this prevented in Cuba? SLAVERY.
#15297694
KurtFF8 wrote:Your article is from 2015 and is outdated. Cuba has since adopted a new constitution and has new rules around migration. The Canada brain drain is often exaggerated as well, but I'm not sure how it's relevant here. In the case of Cuba: the blockade is designed to make conditions worse in addition to incentives that are offered by the US to induce the brain drain. It's an intentional strategy to strangle Cuba.

Please produce evidence that doctors in Cuba are allowed to move permanently out of Cuba without government permission.
#15297718
Unthinking Majority wrote:This is all a bunch of nonsense based on your false assumptions backed by zero evidence. Does Puerto Rico or the US have socialized medicine? So please do not accuse me of "ignorance".

Go have a loved one wait 8 hours in an ER waiting room or waiting 5 months to see a psychiatrist for mental health treatment and tell me about "humanity". How is this prevented in Cuba? SLAVERY.


Why are you quoting something I did not write UM? Fix this quote first because I did not write it.

And for your information Puerto Rico did have socialized medicine for years and years due to local Puerto Rican measures. They were cut drastically by the USA due to the PROMESA panel. The PROMESA panel is unelected by the Puerto Rican voters. It is imposed by the US government. So Puerto Ricans can be overriden by US government measures without the Puerto Ricans being allowed to vote at all on those measures. That is tyranny.

All votes presented to the US Congress by Puerto Rico and Puerto Rican voters is non binding. Which means the US Congress is not obligated to respond or do anything about the votes presented.

That you fail to understand the US Puerto Rico relationship does not surprise me because you are thinking we are a part of the US system. You really have no clue about the history of Native Americans in the USA, or Latin American life in the USA, or colonialism of places where the US took over but refuses to give any constitutional rights to.

I do not care about you are upset with Canada because it takes forever to see a doctor. There are millions of people in the USA who line up for hours to go to pop up clinics because they can't afford going bankrupt for a broken arm or an infection left untreated. The reason there is a lack of universal health care in the USA is because the private health care industry is wealthy beyond any belief and they are raking in billions upon billions and people have become cash cows for them. Chronic illnesses like high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease, cancer and others are a way of becoming even wealthier.

Socializing medicine is the humane thing to do. They refuse to do so because of GREED. Plain and simple. GREED. And greed is present in capitalism. If there are three areas of human society that need to socialized and well organized and invested government funds into?--it is Health Care, Education, and Housing. If you are homeless, unable to see a doctor when you are sick, or illiterate and without a way of defending yourself in terms of knowledge or access to knowledge which is what being well educated means? You are in deep shit in modern society. You might as well be living in the Third World.

That you and others get angry over my socialist beliefs is proof that you have been unable to understand how critical it is to have those top three areas of human society SOCIALIZED and be completely open to ALL PEOPLE. Without it? You will not be living a modern, and civilized life.
#15297719
Unthinking Majority wrote:This article doesn't say anything about doctors.

Found this though: https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/07/23/cub ... ing-abroad


Cuban doctors are sent to many nations. But the ones who stay in Mexico are very common UM.

I find them in Farmacias Similares consultation rooms all the time.

BTW, Mexico is a nation with universal health care and they have long waiting lines too for the free doctors.

But they have free health care. What is the excuse now for the USA? If Mexico the supposedly inferior nation with the drug kingpins and corrupt on the take cops and politicians can guarantee universal health care to all Mexican citizens and many older folks? Why can't the USA do the same? because GREED. because CAPITALISM is great and have to bankrupt a lot of people in order to take advantage of the desperation of the ill in a nation of freedom. Lol. Please.

Greed folks. Socialism in Medicine is a human right. Fight for it or believe stupid lies for the rest of your life as you lie dying in some ambulance scared about being billed $200,000 for some bacterial superbug eating away at your flesh that no longer responds to anti biotics and you face foreclosure on your house due to unpaid medical bills, because you needed the extra $2000 a month to pay bills instead of private health care insurance premiums in the USA.

Keep thinking that capitalism is the cure all for everything. It is not.

Every Mexican citizen is guaranteed no cost access to healthcare and medicine according to the Mexican constitution and made a reality with the “Institute of Health for Well-being”, or INSABI. Secretary of Health, Mexico City, Mexico.

Unthinking it was passed and made part of the Mexican constitution in August of 2012. More than 11 years ago.

Did you get that memo too or were the false lies about Cuba and Mexico and Puerto Rico your first source of information? Do not trust the mainstream bullshit media. They never report progress in other societies if their own has not improved in that area and the powerful who are being greedy and intransigent want it COVERED UP.
Last edited by Tainari88 on 07 Dec 2023 14:53, edited 1 time in total.
#15297720
Apparently it's easy to not go back to Cuba.

One of my daughters friend's mom is Cuban. She was telling me how basically she went to Mexico to study for university. She was asked to return to Cuba after her studies, and she just said "nah...I'm good". She was eventually able to get US citizenship, and can travel to Cuba now, but in the time between leaving and becoming a US citizen, she wouldn't dare go back. Even though she broke Cuban law, they wouldn't punish a US citizen so she exploits that basically. Bad political move on Cuba's part to do anything at this point.

Anyway, unlike the nonsense white people here say about Cubans. She doesn't love the Cuban government nor do most Cubans. They aren't all about taht revolution shit. It's just trying to live and survive. That's all.

That said, the US should get friendlier with Cuba at this point. We work/cooperate with dictators all the time. Far far worse than Cuba.

Makes we think the US should cooperate with North Korea too.
#15297721
Rancid wrote:Apparently it's easy to not go back to Cuba.

One of my daughters friend's mom is Cuban. She was telling me how basically she went to Mexico to study for university. She was asked to return to Cuba after her studies, and she just said "nah...I'm good". She was eventually able to get US citizenship, and can travel to Cuba now, but in the time between leaving and becoming a US citizen, she wouldn't dare go back. Even though she broke Cuban law, they wouldn't punish a US citizen. Bad political move.

Anyway, unlike the nonsense white people here say about Cubans. She doesn't love the Cuban government.


Most of the Cubans I know in Mexico got issues with the Cuban government. They hate all the red tape, and spying on their private business and having to deal with asskissers in the Cuban government.

But they all love their families. They love visiting their friends and communities.

They go back to visit and bring gifts from Mexican markets or kitchen gadgets or pesos from Mexico to convert to buy shit with.

The ideas that many have about what kinds of lives the Cubans lead is ridiculous Rancid.

I also do not like how a lot of white people who are liberals romanticize poverty in Cuba or Mexico or Puerto Rico or the Dominican Republic. NO, living in deep poverty is not fun and games man. It is terrible and hard.

Being poor and not having access to a great education is not fun and not good.

If they want to make sure that the Hondurans, Venezulans, Colombians, Nicaraguans, Guatemalans, Mexicans, and etc etc Latin Americans do not try to jump that border? Then you have to analyze where these societies need to have better foreign policies that are good for stabilizing huge numbers of poor people.

Because poverty drives the vast majority of immigration from Latin America, and Africa. Nothing else comes close to that number. POVERTY. Number one reason to LEAVE.

Why did my father leave Puerto Rico at age 11? Poverty. His father died of stomach cancer in 1944. His mother was a widow in her fifties without being able to make ends meet. She tried selling jelly and preserves in the street and door to door. His two much older brothers tried cutting sugar cane, and other jobs. They were literally going hungry for months. They lived in a mud ghetto with mosquitoes and no sanitation. POVERTY.

My mother came from rural peasants who lost their land and they tried to make it with a little bar and restaurant. They were without any real skills for living in a big city and had to leave due to POVERTY.

My maternal grandfather found jobs as a dishwasher and a short order cook in Manhattan NYC.

My paternal uncles all got jobs as waiters or delivery drivers...working class jobs that did not require a lot of English.

POVERTY.

My parents both struggled hard to get a decent education in New York because they were relegated to special education track programs since the racism in their era was super bad. They assumed my parents were dunces because if you are Puerto Rican you are DUMB. Racists think like that and they ran the education system.

Both of them were very intelligent. But they had to fight hard to educate themselves. The system never helped. Why do you think they were socialists and also radicals from the left Rancid? Because the SYSTEM SUCKED. Never helped them in any way. Just throw a lot of obstacles in their path.

How can anyone be pro system when you live that kind of experience?

These while liberals are assholes Rancid.

Poverty is not romantic and you should not be patting minorities on the head and saying....good job....you are so smart! Isn't it great you made it in America? Fucking idiots they are Rancid.

You want to deal with immigration from the nations that have the slaves and poverty in them? Then transform the core of why there is poverty. Because it is not because the Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Mexicans, Dominicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans etc are dummies. A lot of very intelligent and great people in those nations. It is because there is a system that locks all of them UP in POVERTY and without a way of breaking out.

Figure a way out for all of us and make it happen. Meanwhile if they continue with the patronizing white man's burden bullshit and do not do tangible and proven things to improve life and remove or reduce poverty in Latin America? They are going to be having caravans full of Latin Americans believing all that propaganda bullshit about the American Dream is open to all....while the MAGA morons are getting ready to take over the US government and dissolve all the rights that the 1960s radicals from the Left had to fight for tooth and nail.

Do nothing about your shitty liberal white bullshit thoughts people out there reading this? And the issues continue. :D
#15297735
KurtFF8 wrote:Your article is from 2015 and is outdated. Cuba has since adopted a new constitution and has new rules around migration. The Canada brain drain is often exaggerated as well, but I'm not sure how it's relevant here. In the case of Cuba: the blockade is designed to make conditions worse in addition to incentives that are offered by the US to induce the brain drain. It's an intentional strategy to strangle Cuba.


Your average Mexican doctor is paid this:

https://www.economia.gob.mx/datamexico/ ... 0a%C3%B1os.

Los mejores salarios promedio que recibieron Médicos Especialistas fueron en Quintana Roo ($26.2k MX), Baja California Sur ($19.4k MX) y Campeche ($19.2k MX), mientras que la fuerza laboral fue mayor en Ciudad de México (26.5k), Estado de México (9.93k) y Baja California (9.79k).

En términos de industrias, los mejores salarios promedio se evidenciaron en Hospitales Psiquiátricos y para el Tratamiento por Adicción ($15.6k MX), Administración Pública en General ($14k MX) y Regulación y Fomento del Desarrollo Económico ($12.1k MX), mientras que la fuerza laboral se concentró en Consultorios Médicos (128k), Consultorios Dentales (7.96k) y Hospitales Psiquiátricos y para el Tratamiento por Adicción (2.73k).


Translated into English it reads this:

The best average salaries received by Medical Specialists were in Quintana Roo ($26.2k MX), Baja California Sur ($19.4k MX), and Campeche ($19.2k MX), while the workforce was larger in Mexico City (26.5k), State of Mexico (9.93k) and Baja California (9.79k).

In terms of industries, the best average salaries were evident in Psychiatric and Addiction Treatment Hospitals ($15.6k MX), Public Administration in General ($14k MX), and Regulation and Promotion of Economic Development ($12.1k MX), while The workforce was concentrated in Medical Offices (128k), Dental Offices (7.96k), and Psychiatric and Addiction Treatment Hospitals (2.73k).

So using today's currency exchange from Mexican Pesos to US Dollars the highest paid doctor in Mexico that is currently working right now:

$1491 US dollars a month for the highest paid medical doctors in the highest paying Mexican state which is Quintana Roo.

The real average for all Mexican doctors practicing today is about $745 dollars US a month.

So a Cuban doctor is going to make slightly less than that in Mexico probably around $650 US Dollars a month.

Why? He has to get recertified and probably lost some years for seniority. Period.

Now if you become a doctor in the USA? Hmmm. How much does a family doctor or psychiatrist make in the USA?

About $277, 743 a year in USD. Shit Sherlock! You make a whole lot more money being a medical doctor in the USA.

https://www.indeed.com/career/family-me ... n/salaries

Maybe if you are stuck in Mexico being a doctor and treating sick patients without living in luxury you might not want the system to change in the USA because the insurance companies are keeping your money flowing in...lol. Privatizing medicine is a good deal for many in the USA.

Cuban doctors often are shocked at how difficult it is to become a doctor in the US system to get certified in the USA and pass the medical board exams. It discourages strongly doctors from practicing medicine in the US system if you have it in Mexico, Cuba, etc. Puerto Rico does have the right to practice in the US system graduating from the University of Puerto Rico or University of the Sacred Heart or other university systems. But the US destroyed the UPR cheap tuition system for Medical School. They made it as expensive as the US private university system because it was competing with their $$$$ for-profit system.

So, the reality is that for a Cuban professional? Going to Mexico is not going to be the American dream of money. Though making about $800 US Dollars a month is a middle class life in Mexico. ;)
#15297741
Unthinking Majority wrote:This article doesn't say anything about doctors.

Found this though: https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/07/23/cub ... ing-abroad


Yes, our conversation was about migration and doctors migrating away is a part of that topic.

HRW tends to just promote the US State Department/Trump/Biden lines about Cuba, no surprise there.

Rancid wrote:Anyway, unlike the nonsense white people here say about Cubans. She doesn't love the Cuban government nor do most Cubans. They aren't all about taht revolution shit. It's just trying to live and survive. That's all.


The Cuban revolution continues to be much more popular than it's given credit for in places like the US where the propaganda machine tries to paint a picture of "it's only there because of repression." I reality, if the Cuban system were as unpopular as the US propaganda painted it, it would have been overthrown in its much more vulnerable periods (like the 1990s, for example).

Rancid wrote:That said, the US should get friendlier with Cuba at this point. We work/cooperate with dictators all the time. Far far worse than Cuba.

Makes we think the US should cooperate with North Korea too.


Yes, the US embargo against Cuba is unjustifiable.
#15297746
KurtFF8 wrote:Yes, our conversation was about migration and doctors migrating away is a part of that topic.

HRW tends to just promote the US State Department/Trump/Biden lines about Cuba, no surprise there.



The Cuban revolution continues to be much more popular than it's given credit for in places like the US where the propaganda machine tries to paint a picture of "it's only there because of repression." I reality, if the Cuban system were as unpopular as the US propaganda painted it, it would have been overthrown in its much more vulnerable periods (like the 1990s, for example).



Yes, the US embargo against Cuba is unjustifiable.


Cuba gets a lot of tourism. From Mexico where I live especially. It gets tourism all the time. It is an important economic activity between Mexico and Cuba.

I see Cuban bands playing here all the time. Cuban lecturers, and experts. I see them everywhere. I ate pizza yesterday the server was Cuban. Lol.

I do not know why so many US citizens think every Cuban is into some kind of rage over crap. Most move looking to make some money that they can then send back to their hometowns and cities. It happens with a lot of Central Americans and Mexicans too.
#15297747
Tainari88 wrote:Most move looking to make some money that they can then send back to their hometowns and cities. It happens with a lot of Central Americans and Mexicans too.


Because they seek low key existences (get a job, send money home, live a quiet life). It's easy for those with power/influence to basically make up a narrative around them for their own political purposes.
#15297762
Tainari88 wrote:...Mexico in its smaller cities like Mérida have low car ownership. The vast majority of families do not own cars. And that Cuban-looking scene is very common here as well...


This is nice to hear, but many other cities in Mexico have been just as destroyed as Denver (or Montreal) by cars taking over all public spaces.

North American suburban drivers sacrifice the seed corn - their children

I don't want to underscore this point: Automobile normalcy destroyed the village that children have always needed to grow up healthy in the head. Adults in rich countries are sacrificing the seed corn (their children) so that they (the fully grown corn) can continue to race around experiencing g-force thrills to the *parking lot-based environments* their corporate fascist governance bestowed upon them.

Cubans care about children

I had to see a non-destroyed-by-cars environment with my own eyes to see that this could ever exist with all the power that car companies have over us in the FREE countries.

That car-free Cuban environment is a big reason why Cubans can boast about "caring about children."
#15297770
QatzelOk wrote:This is nice to hear, but many other cities in Mexico have been just as destroyed as Denver (or Montreal) by cars taking over all public spaces.

North American suburban drivers sacrifice the seed corn - their children

I don't want to underscore this point: Automobile normalcy destroyed the village that children have always needed to grow up healthy in the head. Adults in rich countries are sacrificing the seed corn (their children) so that they (the fully grown corn) can continue to race around experiencing g-force thrills to the *parking lot-based environments* their corporate fascist governance bestowed upon them.

Cubans care about children

I had to see a non-destroyed-by-cars environment with my own eyes to see that this could ever exist with all the power that car companies have over us in the FREE countries.

That car-free Cuban environment is a big reason why Cubans can boast about "caring about children."


Q consumerism over everything else. Materialistic values over spiritual or humanistic values, and so many other factors destroy the seed corn.

I have a different perspective from you about Cuban culture and Puerto Rican culture and Dominican culture. The Spanish speaking Caribbean culture has never been alienated and cold and not loving towards children.

But you are correct that too much technology, too much suburban values with SUVs are very damaging if that is all people can feel.

I think you have to see history. For me? Caribbean Spanish speaking people from Cuba, the DR, and PR are or at least in my view and experience have not been that alienated from the beginning. Despite a lot of negative stuff going on.

The culture is not alienated. Now first world suburbs and so on? That you mention. Yes, I see that happening. But superficial people also raise superficial kids and superficial communities with superficial values.

Just always emphasize love and connection. Something true.
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