Argentina elects chainsaw-wielding libertarian - Page 7 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15297806
wat0n wrote:...what's Cuba's Gini index?

The information is not available.

Estimates are scarce but by 2000 it was estimated to be 0.38 and ~0.4 in 2016. That's more unequal than Canada and quite similar to the US.

Cuba was more egalitarian in the Cold War, thanks to the Soviet subsidy. Once the subsidy went away, inequality went up.

You made a conclusion based on uninterpreted information that isn't even up to date or from a reliable source. It's not hard to find "a paper" that can be used to support a meme.

the paper you cited wrote:...Las remesas, estimadas en alrededor de 2.500 millones de dólares anuales, llegan a 65% de la población, fundamentalmente a familias urbanas y en especial a personas blancas18 ...

These USA remittances are a major source of inequality in Cuba. This has nothing to do with Cuba's government or local people. This is money shipped to the families and associates of the Olde Elite.

With this inherited-from-USA money, the Gini goes up artifially. Under the Soviet system, money was distributed more equally.

But this has zero to do with the Cuban system itself and more to do with the proximity of the USA, and the different ways foreign countries "help out."

Many of these USA-money-fed Cubans continue to leave the country... increasing equality in the process.
Last edited by QatzelOk on 08 Dec 2023 17:19, edited 2 times in total.
#15297808
QatzelOk wrote:By far the most important reason for extinctions is "change of environmental conditions." But no other species has knowingly destroyed its own life-support system like "the tool-maker" has.


That human-the-toolmaker is only 10,000 years old. We lived a million years as human-just another animal" for 99.9 % of the time we've existed as a species. The tool-maker part of our existence might be the announcement of our own self-imposed extinction. It certainly looks this way in 2023.


Look at how we humans and our technologies have changed conditions. Argentina is a bankrupt mess of poverty and hopelessly naive politics. It is bankrupt beyond hope. Its people just voted for a cartoon character who will bankrupt the country even harder.

All those technologies and the power they gave certain people and gangs... have lead us to a moment in time where the end is visible, and nihilism is the cutting edge of politics (rather than hope).

This election seems like a huge "fuck it!" by the poor masses of Argentina, and countries like the one I'm in are probably seeing our own futures acted out in front of our distracted eyes...

***


Cuba is far more egalitarian than the US or Canada. A better point is that some Latin American countries seem to have an elite left-wing class that is as useless to their countrymen as the worst oligarch classes are.

But please don't suggest that no Latin American leftist government has succeeded in equalizing income and opportunity. This is too blatantly false and propaganda-ish.


Your Cuba argument is bullshit as usually. Any dictatorial country is shit Gini wise/inequality wise because dictatorships breed corruption and a class system by default.

Although Cuba doesn't publish Gini but it is estimated to be 0.40-0.45 which is even lower than the United States.
#15297810
QatzelOk wrote:These remittances are the source of inequality in Cuba. This has nothing to do with Cuba's government or local people. This is money shipped to the families and associates of the Olde Elite.

With this inherited-from-USA money, the Gini goes up artifially. Under the Soviet system, money was distributed more equally.

But this has zero to do with the Cuban system itself and more to do with the proximity of the USA, and the different ways foreign countries "help out."

Many of these USA-money-fed Cubans continue to leave the country... increasing equality in the process.


How exactly does it have nothing to do with Cuba's system itself if many Cubans are relying on the earnings of their relatives living in the US? :eh:
#15297813
wat0n wrote:How exactly does it have nothing to do with Cuba's system itself if many Cubans are relying on the earnings of their relatives living in the US? :eh:


Look what the USA has done to the Middle East's gini index by sending billions of dollars to Israel.

Does the resulting terrorism and genocide of Palestinians mean that Palestine's gini index has been ruined by Hamas? Or by USA sponsors?
#15297828
QatzelOk wrote:Look what the USA has done to the Middle East's gini index by sending billions of dollars to Israel.

Does the resulting terrorism and genocide of Palestinians mean that Palestine's gini index has been ruined by Hamas? Or by USA sponsors?


Most of former Warshaw pact and post-soviet republics that actually went the democratic route have way better Gini index compared to Cuba or any places that you mentioned even after 50 years of occupation and dictatorship in 30 years. Most countries that you mention have been independent or by themselves for much, much longer.

If your argument is "It is USes fault" then it is not much of an argument. Nobody is going to fix your own inequality for you. That is not how it works.
#15297919
JohnRawls wrote:Most of former Warshaw pact and post-soviet republics that actually went the democratic route have way better Gini index compared to Cuba...


Now that wat0n has decided that "gini indexes" are freestyle and improvised... you can invent them for any occasion... you can post things like this without any citations. Or find some "paper" that uses the term "gini index" without any reference to any accredited institution.

The West has the world's most insincere liars... in charge of it. This is why it's so important to visit Cuba... rather then trying to understand it based on the rich, plundering West's sophisticated liescape.

Are you proud of the West's lying ways, JohnRawls? Do our potemkin memes make you feel warm and fuzzy, like an antifa whose just had their seventh booster?
#15297948
QatzelOk wrote:Now that wat0n has decided that "gini indexes" are freestyle and improvised... you can invent them for any occasion... you can post things like this without any citations. Or find some "paper" that uses the term "gini index" without any reference to any accredited institution.

The West has the world's most insincere liars... in charge of it. This is why it's so important to visit Cuba... rather then trying to understand it based on the rich, plundering West's sophisticated liescape.

Are you proud of the West's lying ways, JohnRawls? Do our potemkin memes make you feel warm and fuzzy, like an antifa whose just had their seventh booster?


Yes Qatz its important for a white man like you to visit the Pigmies to observe how superior they are. This is how you sound right now.
#15298103
Beren wrote:Sure, visiting Cuba as a tourist must be really helpful in understanding its society. Do they have social safaris there?

Because crime is low, a tourist may create his own "social safari" by just leaving the tourist zones and talking to the local people.

Is Argentina as safe to visit on your own on a bike in the countryside...compared to Cuba?

Will it become a safer country (for Argentinians) after all its social programs have been chainsawed?

Mocking my pro-Cuban stance, JohnRawls wrote:...its important for a white man like you to visit the Pigmies to observe how superior they are. This is how you sound right now.

When it comes to social capital , it is the rich west who has the most "pigmies" (made small by social alienation).

Your positionning of Cubans as "low down on the political hierarchy" really reveals the fabricated racism of commercial media that you find normal, for some reason.

Do Argentinian voters ALSO harbor the racism against socialism (that positions the poor as inferior) that is created by commercial media? Is this why they elected a capitalist super-man cartoon?
#15298192
JohnRawls wrote:For Fuck sake, why Argentina? Just why? What is this stupidity? Does nobody care about corruption in Argentina?

Image

There is nothing wrong with appointing his sister. If she has qualities to occupy that position, then no problem.

According to libertarianism and classical liberalism, democracy is dangerous in some ways. It meay lead to erosion of civil liberties and free markets. The assumption revealed to be true when you look at today's US government and Western European governments. These countries less free today than 1920's.

Britain has become a libertarian country way before it became a democracy, for example.
#15298193
JohnRawls wrote:For Fuck sake, why Argentina? Just why? What is this stupidity? Does nobody care about corruption in Argentina?

Image


John, tell the truth now. I told you these Right wing assholes are all corrupt in Latin America. But...you think they were not? Come on John.
#15298217
Istanbuller wrote:...when you look at today's US government and Western European governments. These countries less free today than 1920's...

Yes, and hopefully there will be less starvation and homelessness than in the 1930s that followed.
#15298282
QatzelOk wrote:less starvation and homelessness

Doubtful.

The new government has already devalued Argentina's peso by more than 50%, and the economy minister, Luis Caputo, said that the central bank would target a monthly devaluation of 2%.
#15298296
Tainari88 wrote:John, tell the truth now. I told you these Right wing assholes are all corrupt in Latin America. But...you think they were not? Come on John.


It is a bad sign indeed. Not all right wing people are assholes though that is just your prejudice.
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