Israel-Palestinian War 2023 - Page 109 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Political issues and parties in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

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#15298122
wat0n wrote:Too bad many of the terrorists were taped on video carrying out the type of attacks you wish you could do but lack the guts to.

How many?

Oh. And by the way, your squeaky clean would never commit a war crime Israel is using white phosphorus in residential areas now.


:lol:
Last edited by ingliz on 11 Dec 2023 19:08, edited 1 time in total.
#15298124
ingliz wrote:How many?


Enough to make them different from a kidnapped 10-month old baby.

ingliz wrote:Oh. and by the way, Israel is using white phosphorus now in residential areas.


:lol:


Using it as a flare, just like many other countries.

Note that you have now gone from whining about a genocide that isn't (to justify the genocide you'd like), to complaining about something many armies do.
#15298127
@wat0n

Their documented use of white phosphorus artillery shells in civilian areas is a war crime. It is considered to be an indiscriminate attack and therefore unlawful.
#15298135
ingliz wrote:@wat0n

Their documented use of white phosphorus artillery shells in civilian areas is a war crime. It is considered to be an indiscriminate attack and therefore unlawful.


It's not clear since those shells are used as flares, and their use seems to be standard. Not just by the West, also by Russia in Ukraine.
#15298150
Nite that there has been large scale expulsion and emigration of Palestinians in Gaza.

They have been forcibly removed from their homes in northern Gaza.

At which point, they are bombed by the IDF as they proceed south.

Then they are forced to stop by the Egyptian authorities who refuse to be complicit in what they see as ethnic cleansing.

And yes, the large number of people.killed also explains why they are unable to flee en masse.
#15298158
Pants-of-dog wrote:Nite that there has been large scale expulsion and emigration of Palestinians in Gaza.

They have been forcibly removed from their homes in northern Gaza.

At which point, they are bombed by the IDF as they proceed south.

Then they are forced to stop by the Egyptian authorities who refuse to be complicit in what they see as ethnic cleansing.

And yes, the large number of people.killed also explains why they are unable to flee en masse.


No.

They are not being expelled from Gaza, which is what ethnically cleansing Gaza means. By this reasoning, Hamas ethnically cleansed the 500,000 Israelis who had to evacuate the localities in the south of the country - a fact you conveniently omit, because you don't see Israelis as human and you do indeed justify massacring them like on October 7.

Besides, if Israel wanted to get rid of Gazans and Egypt doesn't let them cross into its territory, why doesn't it just give them ships to leave by sea?
#15298173
There seems to be no rebuttal to the claim that Israel is ethnically cleansing northern Gaza.

And no, this cannot be compared to Israel withdrawing people temporarily from a military zone while safeguarding their houses, ensuring a right to return, and not having the IDF bomb them as they try to flee.
#15298179
In reality, it's not even clear if the IDF will occupy Gaza permanently after the war, let alone that internally displaced Gazans won't be allowed to return to their homes. At least the 2005 disengagement suggests Israel is not interested in permanently occupying Gaza.

So, there's no evidence of mass emigration from Gaza and in reality evacuation of civilians from combat zones is common. But when @Pants-of-dog starts pushing this baseless narrative to provide post-hoc justifications for the October 7 massacre, he gets offended and demands proof.
#15298181
wat0n wrote:
In reality, it's not even clear if the IDF will occupy Gaza permanently after the war, let alone that internally displaced Gazans won't be allowed to return to their homes. At least the 2005 disengagement suggests Israel is not interested in permanently occupying Gaza.

So, there's no evidence of mass emigration from Gaza and in reality evacuation of civilians from combat zones is common. But when @Pants-of-dog starts pushing this baseless narrative to provide post-hoc justifications for the October 7 massacre, he gets offended and demands proof.



Gaza is a prison, there is nowhere they can go.

You need to realize that what both sides are doing is terrorism.

You should also know there is nowhere that is safe, that starvation and disease have begun.

When this started, I guesstimated Palestinian deaths at 100K to 200K. That's roughly a hundred times what Israel suffered, or more.

But when I look at the actions and rhetoric coming out of Israel, I worry the numbers could go even higher, which would be mass murder.
#15298184
Proposing options for the Palestinians who are being genocided, wat0n generously wrote:...Getting into Europe by sea isn't that hard, given there have been millions who have succeeded in doing just that this last decade...


So for you it's worth it to push the Palestinians into the sea?

Image

On the other hand, if Israel gets santionned.... this could bring hope to their Palestinian victims.

Al Jazeera wrote:Puma to end sponsorship of Israel’s national football team in 2024
The company says the move, planned since last year, is unrelated to boycott calls against it amid Israel’s war on Gaza.

...Puma has long faced boycott calls over its brand alliance with the Israel Football Association (IFA), but such calls have intensified during Israel’s two-month offensive in Gaza, which has killed more than 18,000 Palestinians...

...
#15298185
QatzelOk wrote:So for you it's worth it to push the Palestinians into the sea?

Image

On the other hand, if Israel gets santionned.... this could bring hope to their Palestinian victims.


No, what I'm saying is that if Israel wanted to push Gazans out it would be putting them on ships to Europe in the same way some were hypothesizing about doing the same to Israelis. But it doesn't want to, hence there are no ships being sent there.

late wrote:Gaza is a prison, there is nowhere they can go.


You should tell this to those who believe Gazans are being expelled en masse.

late wrote:You need to realize that what both sides are doing is terrorism.

You should also know there is nowhere that is safe, that starvation and disease have begun.

When this started, I guesstimated Palestinian deaths at 100K to 200K. That's roughly a hundred times what Israel suffered, or more.

But when I look at the actions and rhetoric coming out of Israel, I worry the numbers could go even higher, which would be mass murder.


Let's see if that's how things turn out, thus far your guesstimate is way off.
#15298194
wat0n wrote:

Let's see if that's how things turn out, thus far your guesstimate is way off.




Actually, it's worse than I expected it to be, at this point.

They are kept on the edge of malnutrition, which means the combination of disease and starvation could kill a lot of kids. That's why the UN and other relief agencies have been alarmed.
#15298196
late wrote:Actually, it's worse than I expected it to be, at this point.

They are kept on the edge of malnutrition, which means the combination of disease and starvation could kill a lot of kids. That's why the UN and other relief agencies have been alarmed.


In other conflicts in even worse areas (e.g. Yemen) that type of mortality took a lot longer to increase than just 2 months - and even then, it hasn't reached 5%+ of the population.
#15298202
wat0n wrote:
In other conflicts in even worse areas (e.g. Yemen) that type of mortality took a lot longer to increase than just 2 months - and even then, it hasn't reached 5%+ of the population.



Walking around the obvious doesn't change it...

Let's agree to disagree, and see how it shakes out. I would like to be wrong, but I'm not.
#15298203
That will depend a lot on how long this war is, or at least the heaviest part of it. It seems the Israelis have been advancing faster than initially thought.

There's also talk of a ceasefire for more hostages, which would help to alleviate the humanitarian situation. Maybe for Christmas? I would not rule it out.
#15298206
wat0n wrote:
That will depend a lot on how long this war is, or at least the heaviest part of it. It seems the Israelis have been advancing faster than initially thought.

There's also talk of a ceasefire for more hostages, which would help to alleviate the humanitarian situation. Maybe for Christmas? I would not rule it out.



IOW, you just agreed to disagree.

Btw, it's advancing quicker due to indiscriminate destruction..
#15298214
wat0n wrote:There has been less damage than in Mosul if we go by the allegations thus far.

And less than 6 million Palestinian children have been killed, so Israel is still "winning" its own propaganda war against what used to be called "the truth" before that was made illegal.
#15298223
wat0n wrote:Oh, some Holocaust denial now, heh @QatzelOk? :roll:

Not from me. The Nakba totally happened, even if it is still legal to deny that it did.

It's actually illegal to even mention the Nakba in Israeli media.

ABC wrote:The so-called "Nakba Law" authorises the Finance Minister to reduce state funding or support to an institution if it engages in an "activity that is contrary to the principles of the state." Relevantly, the activities include "rejecting the existence of the State of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state" and "commemorating Independence Day or the day of the establishment of the state as a day of mourning."


Israelis are forced by law to lie about their own history. What chance do non-hegemonic human-animals have to dredge this real history up for them?

A cult built out of lies... like all of them.
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