US Presidential election 2024 thread. - Page 19 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15305669
Drlee wrote:Just an interesting statistic I just read. Reliable source. The average US citizen lives two fewer years because of firearms. If we did not have widespread ownership of them we would not be 47th in life expectancy, we would be 35th. And that is pretty telling, isn't it? We fall behind such garden spots as Kuwait and Israel. Thailand has us. Chile kicks our ass.

So 35th 47th in life expectancy is appalling as it is. Asking all of us to give up two years of our lives so a few 2nd amendment morons can have their firearm stoked rape fantasies is asking a bit much.


The Mexican government sued the US government for selling arms in unlawful ways to Mexico and violating Mexican laws.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68071549

An excerpt from the BBC article:

By Bernd Debusmann Jr
BBC News, Washington
A US appeals court has ruled that a $10bn lawsuit filed by Mexico against US gun manufacturers can go ahead, reviving a long-running legal battle.

Mexico's government argues that the "flood" of illegal guns across the border is a result of "deliberate" business practices by the US gunmakers.

A lower court had dismissed the case in late 2022, prompting an appeal from the Mexican government.

The gun industry's trade association has denied any wrongdoing.


Lower in the article:

Among the companies named in the lawsuit are Smith & Wesson, Glock, Beretta, Barrett, Sturm and Ruger.

Mexican authorities allege that tens of thousands of US-manufactured guns are trafficked south across the border each year, providing drug cartels with easy access to massive arsenals used to fight each other and the Mexican government. Some estimates put the total at over half a million weapons each year.

More than 30,000 people were murdered last year in Mexico, which has extremely restrictive gun laws. The country is home to only one gun shop, housed in a Mexico City military complex.

The lawsuit, which was first filed in 2021 in a federal courthouse in Massachusetts - where several of the companies are based - argued that the manufacturers knew that guns were being sold to traffickers fuelling violence in the country.
#15305674
Scamp wrote:Speaking of women...
In every presidential election since 1996, a majority of women have preferred the Democratic candidate.


I have voted in Puerto Rico and in the US since 1984. Never missed an election Scampy. To tell you the truth? Never voted for a Democrat to date. Lol.

:lol:

Candidates I have voted for as president of the US in the past:

Nader/LaDuke and so on and so forth. Lol.

Never voted Democrat. That is the truth and nothing but the truth.

When I can vote in the next Mexican presidential elections Scampy man I will be voting for a woman named Claudia Sheinbaum.

Of the MORENA party. But I got to pass the Mexican citizenship exam first. Got to pass the test for history, culture and so on.

Double citizenship. I can keep voting for US elections and can then vote for Mexican elections. Both.

Vote in US elections. Vote in Mexican elections. The trend of the future of people holding double citizenships and paying taxes to two nations. Lol.



Ralph Nader, Gloria La Riva, Jill Stein,
Last edited by Tainari88 on 27 Feb 2024 04:04, edited 1 time in total.
#15305676
Scamp wrote:I'm surprised you voted for Trump.


Haha. No. Colorado has the Green Party. Ralph Nader. Also this woman the last time in 2020. She was a presidential candidate on the Colorado election ballot for 2020. Gloria La Riva

https://www.liberationnews.org/socialis ... democracy/

I vote for parties that are far more leftist Scampy. I am an international socialist.
#15305678
Scamp wrote:In other news, motor vehicles kill more Americans than guns. I wonder how many years that is taking off each person's life, @Drlee ?


Do you expect me to answer this unintelligent post?

It would be a waste of crayons.
#15305698
Drlee wrote:Do you expect me to answer this unintelligent post?

It would be a waste of crayons.


Is it true though. I heavily doubt that guns take off 2 years of life? How is that physically possible? There is no 3 million gun related deaths a year so to speak of elderly people. There must be something wrong with the statistic.
#15305701
JohnRawls wrote:Is it true though. I heavily doubt that guns take off 2 years of life? How is that physically possible? There is no 3 million gun related deaths a year so to speak of elderly people. There must be something wrong with the statistic.


I'm guessing it's because young adults are overrepresented in gun deaths.
#15305704
Scamp wrote:I don't understand wasting your time voting for someone who is going to get less than 5% of the vote. But that's just me.


No, Scampy why should I vote for a political party that I disagree with over 90% of the time because they are going to win and my party is not going to win.

That is not being true to your own political philosophy and it then becomes follow the crowd that is the mob or a group of people manipulated by lies all the time. If you read a political science philosophy thoroughly and are educated on political science you make a decision as an adult what you stand for and what makes the most sense to you. If you believe in democracy you vote for it.

If it loses? It loses. The important thing is that you were true to your political philosophy and it was the truest reflection of what you think is the best course of action for a nation to pursue politically speaking.

The mentality of who is going to win and you go with a winner? Fuck you can go for Nazis winning or some totalitarian authoritarian because that asshole has a lot of people behind them. Does it make it the moral choice? Tbe best choice? The one that is going to make society better?

That is the problem with the present political environment in the USA. People who want to WIN only. Not be truthful about what they want for a nation and get that accomplished.

I do not talk bullshit. I go and campaign and knock on doors, and do a lot of work in a political party if I believe in that message. If I live outside of that nation Scampy I still vote and I also write a LOT on a politics forum that is internationalist like this one. I write a lot. Consistently and I explain why I believe what I believe and open myself up to challenges and criticism. Why? Because that is what you are supposed to do to get your political agenda done.

Not buy a gun, look for a Republican Party meeting in a US neighborhood and enter it and blow away everyone there and plot to kill a bunch of conservatives. That whole guns and killing and calling judges and lawyers who are prosecuting that asshole Trump and threatening to kill them or their families like the mob for Trump do consistently.

I also do not call @Rancid and tell him to become a socialist because I am one.

That is not the purpose of political discourse. Political discourse is about defending your point of view with logic, and with evidence from reputable sources and your writing abilities and also? Your ability to be HUMAN. Not a robot spitting out facts only. If you can't connect on a human level to other people who are your opposites or who disagree with you? Then you have zero influence with them.

People only build trust with time and getting to know that person. Who the hell trusts a stranger and a person with low character? I would not do so.

I am used to my political party losing. The system as is rarely rewards people who are not into cutthroat competition and the ability to manipulate the truth in their favor.

When it collapses due to bad values? I do not blame the majority who vote for those lies. I just tell them....hmmm are you ready for a change? Yes or no?

The parties that finally won who were socialist did so by not infighting among themselves. They united and decided to do something about the majority do nothing stagnation parties full of corruption and lack of progress for working average people in society. And they won. Finally. People got tired of the lies and the faking and the inequality. The injustice wore them out. And the message of socialist values finally penetrated the manipulations and the money of the two major parties over here.

That is how victory is done without bloodshed. The other path is about killing people, blood and guts and instability and running the risk of killing a lot of innocent bystanders in the crossfire of revolution.

Revolution is very risky and it is the last resort for most societies. Once it gets going trying to stop that train is nearly impossible.

You got to ride the death toll until the end of the line. If you love life? You do it the civilized way. Allowing democracy to happen. And people to get tired of the status quo enough to give a third option a chance.
#15305705
wat0n wrote:I'm guessing it's because young adults are overrepresented in gun deaths.


Still it would have to be 300 thousand deaths lets say per say. And by deaths I mean shooting or something and not suicides. Suicides probably a large part of the current number but they will happen anyways just in other means so you can easily remove them.
#15305707
JohnRawls wrote:
Is it true though. I heavily doubt that guns take off 2 years of life? How is that physically possible? There is no 3 million gun related deaths a year so to speak of elderly people. There must be something wrong with the statistic.


It comes down to the question of acceptable risk to society.

I think more people are willing to accept the risk of private transport deaths than gun deaths.

BTW, we should be promoting public transport and pedestrian friendly streets and cities. Funny enough, there is a correlation between those that would support gun deregulation, and are against public transport.

Still, pointing to transport deaths as a defense when talking about guns is basically a red herring fallacy. Which is is the default mode of operation for the American right wing. One of their favorites is to bring up trans people when talking about stuff totally unrelated to trans people (pay attention, you'll see what I mean).
Last edited by Rancid on 27 Feb 2024 15:54, edited 2 times in total.
#15305708
Pants-of-dog wrote:https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30514715/


Yeah as expected the number is not large as 2 years, it is the largest of 102 days nationally out which are 52 days suicide related. So basically 50 days is what is taken on average out of lifespam if you are born recently. The older you are right now the less it takes off basically.

So the average is even less. Probably 30 days out which 18-20 is suicide. If you look at white population than its barely visible, the majority of the problems come from the black population.
#15305709
wat0n wrote:I'm guessing it's because young adults are overrepresented in gun deaths.


The majority of gun deaths are about people using the gun they own or that they have easy access to---to commit suicide with.

That is the unfortunate truth. A lot of suicides.

What share of U.S. gun deaths are murders and what share are suicides?
Though they tend to get less public attention than gun-related murders, suicides have long accounted for the majority of U.S. gun deaths. In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were accidental (549), involved law enforcement (537) or had undetermined circumstances (458).


Meanwhile the vast majority of gun deaths in Mexico are about drug cartels and gangs and violent crimes and murders. Since trying to get a hold of a gun or buy one in Mexico is next to impossible the gun crimes are either cops, military or gangs. Pretty easy to know who is in charge of guns here. Every Tom, Dick and Harry can't buy a gun. It is tightly controlled.

The DEA and the FBI stated that Puerto Rico has almost ALL DEATHS related to illegal guns brought in from the mainland US and used by drug dealers. The FBI stated that even if the DEA and the FBI brought all their officers to work Puerto Rico only, the crime is so out of control there that all the officers would be heavily overworked. Many FBI agents wanted to get paid out of nation or international pay scales that are much higher. Why? Because Puerto Rico is a very tight knit society. It is a small island and the drug dealers and criminals all speak Spanish and know each other. They grow up in the same hoods their whole lives. Introducing some English speaking or Spanish speaking FBI or DEA agent that speaks some Chicano Mexican LA Spanish or some heavily accented Spanish that is not natively Puerto Rican is a study in FAILURE for undercover work.

They also said that the vast majority of the drug distribution from PR to the mainland is controlled by US based and US American citizen people on the mainland who make a lot of profit and who are also extremely hard to watch all the time. It takes time, money and dedication. The FBI is not the CIA. The CIA has a lot of agents and analysts who speak perfect Spanish, French, Arabic, Mandarin, etc and they can train and send them out to mix in there with a decent cover story.

The FBI is supposed to be based in the USA. ONLY. So they have to recruit US citizens who are willing to do the job in both languages and be bicultural. Without one of the two languages being dominant and noticeably assimilated. That reduces your pool of possible recruits.

The FBI tried to recruit me when I graduated from college in cultural anthropology long ago. I was good at accents, registers, interpretations, slang language, etc. I would have gotten paid BIG BUCKS to catch drug dealers. But there is a risk to that. And also, you have to pledge an oath of loyalty to the US government and to be working for the FBI. The FBI persecutes most if not all pro-independence Puerto Ricans on the island.

They literally said in a document brought on Democracy Now with Amy Goodman by US Congressman for NY José Serrano that they did a lot of illegal things to the Puerto Rican independentistas. Immoral things and things that are extremely wrong in every way. Legally, and otherwise.

So why should I work for those people who do not respect democratic traditions in other nations and with other cultural groups. Especially my home culture?

Politics is also about being consistent and principled. Not talking shit and being two-faced to make money.
Last edited by Tainari88 on 27 Feb 2024 16:07, edited 1 time in total.
#15305710
Rancid wrote:It comes down to he question of acceptable risk to society.

I think more people are willing to accept the risk of private transport deaths than gun deaths.

BTW, we should be promoting public transport and pedestrian friendly streets and cities. Funny enough, there is a correlation between those that would support fun deregulation, and are against public transport.


The statistics in the survey that were shown are here. It is not a massive issue. Loosing 18 days on average(My number which is approximate since there are more older people etc etc and suicides) for whole population to gun problems is not something that should be a massive priority to fix with all the other things in the US.

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#15305711
We have a gun death rate similar to a medium sized war, which is insane.

Some countries can count their gun deaths, per year, around what we do on a good day, and there's no need of it.
#15305712
Tainari88 wrote:I also do not call @Rancid and tell him to become a socialist because I am one.


Thanks.

JohnRawls wrote:The statistics in the survey that were shown are here. It is not a massive issue. Loosing 18 days on average for whole population to gun problems is not something that should be a massive priority to fix with all the other things in the US.


Sure, but multiple problems can be addressed at the same time, no?

The hypocrisy in the American right with guns is this. While small in number, school shootings are increasing and certainly a tragedy. This American right loves to create moral panics and scream "Save the children!", yet they don't seem interested in saving the children here.

I'm a gun owner, but i hate American gun culture. SO many fucking retards at the gun ranges.

So, sure, you can validly defend them like this, but in the end, they are completely full of shit in the larger picture of how they operate. This seems to be missed by many of us for some reason. IN short, the American right are contradictory and inconsistent. Not deserving of respect.
#15305714
Rancid wrote:Thanks.



Sure, but multiple problems can be addressed at the same time, no?

The hypocrisy in the American right with guns is this. While small in number, school shootings are increasing and certainly a tragedy. This American right loves to create moral panics and scream "Save the children!", yet they don't seem interested in saving the children here.

I'm a gun owner, but i hate American gun culture. SO many fucking retards at the gun ranges.

So, sure, you can defend them, but in the end, they are completely full of shit in the larger picture of how they operate. This seems to be missed by many of us for some reason. IN short, the American right are contradictory and inconsistent. Not deserving of respect.


Okay fine, but ¬18 days of your lifespam is not a massive issue. Literally any chronic disease will take off much much more of your lifespams. In general, gun and violence related death are a fucking myth honestly and propaganda spouted by conservatives all over the world. That is nothing new. If you look at any statistic, like literally any in Europe or US then you will see that the national averages for violent deaths have been steadily dropping since forever.

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