Biden, 14th, Trump 45th - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By late
#15305574
Scamp wrote:
When the Civil War was over, and Lincoln was dead, and all of the Confederate slaves were free, the Union still had slavery. You didn't know this?



Whataboutism...

Do you know how to form a relevant counterargument?

Oh wait, there is none to be had.

Oh, well..
#15305583
Tainari88 wrote:Hillary was the Savior and the symbolic woman president of all time. She was the woman who was gonna save the White House. Lol.

Hillary would have been more of a disaster Pote? Give me some scenarios of why Hillary woman would have been worse than Trump?

I know she was a Hawk and a really hidden closet fascist in foreign policy but give me some fictional thoughts about that from you eh?

I’m pretty sure that if Hillary had won in 2016, we would probably already be at war with Russia by now.
#15305596
Potemkin wrote:I’m pretty sure that if Hillary had won in 2016, we would probably already be at war with Russia by now.


Aha, a bold statement. Why did Trump cool down that problem eh?

:D
By wat0n
#15305597
Scamp wrote:What was Buchanan to do? He didn't want to violate the Constitution like Lincoln did.
Secession of states was not prohibited by the Constitution.
The 10th Amendment says anything not covered by the Constitution is left up to the states.


The Constitution is itself just a deep of reform of the Articles of Confederation, as one can infer from the preamble speaking of "a more perfect union". Those were explicit about the union being perpetual, so no, states cannot secede and won't be able to do so legally until a mechanism to that effect is added as an amendment.

Also, he could have at least prepared to properly defend federal property in southern states, which he also did not do.
User avatar
By Scamp
#15305639
wat0n wrote:The Constitution is itself just a deep of reform of the Articles of Confederation, as one can infer from the preamble speaking of "a more perfect union". Those were explicit about the union being perpetual, so no, states cannot secede and won't be able to do so legally until a mechanism to that effect is added as an amendment.


Also, he could have at least prepared to properly defend federal property in southern states, which he also did not do.

After the war was over the Union was very upset. They had 360,000 soldiers dead. And their Tyrant President was also dead. So they had a witch hunt and arrested or indicted some Confederate leaders for treason.

The best lawyers the US had could not try these Confederates knowing that treason would not stick and when they lost in court it would make future secession legal. So none were charged with treason.
By late
#15305644
Scamp wrote:
witch hunt



I take the opposite view.

They did not bring enough pressure to bear, and when they relented, the South went back to being a racist hell..
User avatar
By Scamp
#15305671
late wrote:I take the opposite view.

They did not bring enough pressure to bear, and when they relented, the South went back to being a racist hell..

Yea right. The South was such a racist hell that after the war, all the freed slaves left the South and went north. :roll:
#15305672
Scamp wrote:Yea right. The South was such a racist hell that after the war, all the freed slaves left the South and went north. :roll:


They fled to the North Scamps because it is called fleeing war zone or fleeing domestic terrorism. The KKK in the 1920s terrorized Black families.

Here:



User avatar
By Scamp
#15305679
Slavery was legal. It had also been recently supported by a SCOTUS ruling and an act of Congress.
By 1860 the South had turned cotton and tobacco into a billion dollar enterprise. You think maybe they wanted to keep this up?
#15305680
late wrote:"Presidential historiansin a new survey rank President Biden as the 14th best president in U.S. history — and put former President Trump last."

With the posts I've been seeing trying to portray Biden as incompetent, I thought I'd mention what the guys that evaluate presidents as a profession think..

I've been waiting for Reagan's standing to go down, it's down 5 now. Historians, as a rule, don't like economics. Which will delay the drop, but as it slowly percolates through their concrete, expect his standing to go down more.

https://www.axios.com/2024/02/19/presidents-survey-trump-ranks-last-biden-14th


This is always the most nauseating sort of shit you get - like "Freedom House" indexes of the most democratic countries, where self-selecting networks of people try to reach the "CORRECT" and "EXPERT" consensus...

Written precisely for the kind of dolts who believe there can be an objective reality and, whaddya know, there's a clear bias for the things that the typical Axios journalist would endorse.

What a wonderful poll :lol: .
By late
#15305685
Scamp wrote:
Yea right. The South was such a racist hell that after the war, all the freed slaves left the South and went north.



Sigh.

The violence and murder drove something between one and two million people North.

Welcome to the United States of America.
By late
#15305686
Verv wrote:

Written precisely for the kind of dolts who believe there can be an objective reality..



Historians try to get there, but know they never will.

Btw, the meaning of objective reality depends on the context. It's been at the center of Philosophy of Science for a long time. The current thinking is that we model reality. No one cares if a model is true, or eternal. The standard is simple: Does it work?
#15305716
late wrote:Seeing how he's the worst ever, we have good reason to be concerned.

Why are you worried? As far as I know, America helds free and fair elections (despite Democrats' efforts to create a single party regime). You can just go and vote to oust him?

But why are you so obsessed with Trump? Why so much hate? Is this healthy? Anti-Trumpism is not anything sane.
By late
#15305727
Istanbuller wrote:
Why are you worried? As far as I know, America helds free and fair elections (despite Democrats' efforts to create a single party regime). You can just go and vote to oust him?

But why are you so obsessed with Trump? Why so much hate? Is this healthy? Anti-Trumpism is not anything sane.



He's a sociopath that has repeatedly said he wants to kill democracy.

Btw, there are a number of states that Trump will lose that have a plan to have the state legislature steal the election.
#15305734
Scamp wrote:Slavery was legal. It had also been recently supported by a SCOTUS ruling and an act of Congress.
By 1860 the South had turned cotton and tobacco into a billion dollar enterprise. You think maybe they wanted to keep this up?


Child labor was legal too. But having kids working 12 hour shifts and never a day off should have been illegal. It was not.

Please, just because something is legal in the past does not mean it was right or just.

All you have to do to take over the wealth of other nations occupied by other people making billions of dollars in wealth every year that should belong to Americans only--is have a war or two or three or four, the only problem with that is that war and invasions and killing and toppling governments costs MONEY. It costs TIME. It costs administration problems with ruling people who are not trusting the foreign governments using guns and threats to impose their will on the conquered, and then having to run a nation who speaks another language, has another history and has a lot more knowledge of the lay of the land than your occupying army does.

You then have guerrilla warfare tactics of throw the cocktail and run. Hide. Then come out and pester the big army some more. Run and hide.

Repeat for years.

Nothing gets accomplished. Bogged down...

Oh shit, I will have to finally work hard on building relationships, figuring out histories, and political dynamics, wonder about how to fix infrastructure, how to change attitudes, educate people, build roads, and etc etc. SHIT THIS IS HARD. I just wanted some money, some power and a quick fix to my need to control it all.

It is not a quick fix. Oh, what do I do? God favors my race. God favors my country. God is on my side. God is about love for all? Even the enemy? Why?

I really just want the quick money and the egotistical power....that comes with it.

The rest is too hard. What do I do? :lol: :lol:
User avatar
By Scamp
#15305792
As for Lincoln being #1 on that list...
I bet they don't even know that Lincoln had northern newspapers who spoke out against him shut down. In some cases the owners or editors were jailed, and the printing presses were destroyed.
So much for the first Amendment under Lincoln. Yea he's #1. :lol:
Maybe people who are ignorant of history shouldn't make such a list.
User avatar
By Verv
#15305801
late wrote:Historians try to get there, but know they never will.

Btw, the meaning of objective reality depends on the context. It's been at the center of Philosophy of Science for a long time. The current thinking is that we model reality. No one cares if a model is true, or eternal. The standard is simple: Does it work?


God knows reality. We are subjects in a world that can get some concept of reality at least from a human perspective, but that is limited...

So, yes, I do agree, more or less, that reality is something that we try to understand via models and we can get pretty close to something that is an agreeable reality.

But once we get into things where value judgments come into play, all bets are off, right?
By late
#15305830
Verv wrote:
But once we get into things where value judgments come into play, all bets are off, right?



Could you put that into this context?

I am not seeing the connection.
#15305836
Scamp wrote:As for Lincoln being #1 on that list...
I bet they don't even know that Lincoln had northern newspapers who spoke out against him shut down. In some cases the owners or editors were jailed, and the printing presses were destroyed.
So much for the first Amendment under Lincoln. Yea he's #1. :lol:
Maybe people who are ignorant of history shouldn't make such a list.


Standard operating procedure for a Civil War situation or a revolution. All that press and so on? It is all suppressed.

Forget it Scampy...ole Abe Lincoln, Trump loves him. He is a Yankee from Queens.

Lol.

You want to revive a dead cause now? Come on Scamps. The South lost that war. It was the worst war of all of American history. Millions lost in terrible battles. All because the South did not want to change and give up its way of life, its land, its history, its slaves, its profits for a bunch of arrogant Yankee elites from the midwest and the Northeast.

The South is not going to Rise Again through that Yankee Conman. Got to give it up, got to give it up.

Be happy that African American music took over American popular music all over the world and made the world love African American and therefore American Pop music as a consequence.

Got to give it up.

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