Death by famine, in Gaza - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By late
#15305926
"These children are not suffering from drought or crop failure or some other natural disaster. Their hunger is a man-made catastrophe. The Israeli government has slowed and even prevented food aid from entering the besieged Gaza Strip. Even when trucks do get through, Israeli bombardment and, more recently, the growing desperation of hungry mobs have turned food distribution into an arduous and sometimes deadly endeavor.

“Such a decline in a population’s nutritional status in three months is unprecedented globally,” UNICEF, the World Health Organization and the U.N. World Food Program said in reporting the latest grim statistics last week.

We should not pretend these deaths were inevitable. All of this we already knew: Palestinian residents of Gaza have been reduced to eating grass. They drink fetid water. Grains meant for animal feed are pulverized into makeshift flour, but even that lowly sustenance has been running out. Palestinian starvation has been documented and reported. We knew.

The ominous absurdity of the situation is impossible to overstate. A freighter with food bound for Gaza, enough to feed more than one million people, languished for weeks at the Israeli port of Ashdod because Israeli customs authorities refused to process the food."

It takes time to ramp up aid at that level, and Israel is still blocking most aid. So far, my prediction of Israel killing 100 to 200 times as many is going as predicted. It shouldn't be long now before disease breaks out. War, famine, disease, Israel does it all.


https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/29/opinion/gaza-israel-palestinians-starvation.html
#15305933
late wrote:"These children are not suffering from drought or crop failure or some other natural disaster. Their hunger is a man-made catastrophe. The Israeli government has slowed and even prevented food aid from entering the besieged Gaza Strip. Even when trucks do get through, Israeli bombardment and, more recently, the growing desperation of hungry mobs have turned food distribution into an arduous and sometimes deadly endeavor.

“Such a decline in a population’s nutritional status in three months is unprecedented globally,” UNICEF, the World Health Organization and the U.N. World Food Program said in reporting the latest grim statistics last week.

We should not pretend these deaths were inevitable. All of this we already knew: Palestinian residents of Gaza have been reduced to eating grass. They drink fetid water. Grains meant for animal feed are pulverized into makeshift flour, but even that lowly sustenance has been running out. Palestinian starvation has been documented and reported. We knew.

The ominous absurdity of the situation is impossible to overstate. A freighter with food bound for Gaza, enough to feed more than one million people, languished for weeks at the Israeli port of Ashdod because Israeli customs authorities refused to process the food."

It takes time to ramp up aid at that level, and Israel is still blocking most aid. So far, my prediction of Israel killing 100 to 200 times as many is going as predicted. It shouldn't be long now before disease breaks out. War, famine, disease, Israel does it all.


https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/29/opinion/gaza-israel-palestinians-starvation.html


It is an international disgrace!

Some Air Force member from the USA actually set himself on fire and killed himself in protest over Palestine. He worked for the US government in the Air Force. He set himself aflame and died. In protest.

This is disgraceful! When your own military personnel are killing themselves because they witness the injustice to innocent people and can't cope with the reality that their government is supporting an evil action government like Netanyahu is doing? Is crazy!!

He killed himself in front of the Israeli consulate.

#15306650
This Zionist tendency to call everyone a fan of rape is just :lol:

More on Zionist rape fantasies:

Kibbutz Be’eri Rejects Story in New York Times October 7 Exposé: “They Were Not Sexually Abused”
“It’s not true,” said the kibbutz spokesperson, of one of the stories featured in the paper’s controversial article.

Two of the three victims specifically singled out by the New York Times in a marquee exposé published in December, which alleged that Hamas had deliberately weaponized sexual violence during the October 7 attacks, were not in fact victims of sexual assault, according to the spokesperson for the Kibbutz Be’eri, which the Times identified as the location of the attack.

The rejection of the Times reporting in the kibbutz by Be’eri spokesperson Michal Paikin further undermines the credibility of the paper’s controversial December article “‘Screams Without Words’: How Hamas Weaponized Sexual Violence on Oct. 7.”

The Times article described three alleged victims of sexual assault for whom it reported specific biographical information. One, known as the “woman in the black dress,” was Gal Abdush. Some of her family members have contested the claims made by the Times. The other two alleged victims were unnamed teenage sisters from Kibbutz Be’eri whose precise ages were listed in the New York Times, making it possible to identify them.

According to data from the Israeli government’s public list of the victims who died at the kibbutz during the October 7 attacks, as well as a memorial page established by the community itself, the victims in Kibbutz Be’eri matching the description in the New York Times article were sisters Y. and N. Sharabi, ages 13 and 16. (The Intercept has identified the girls but is not printing their first names.)

When asked about the claims made by the New York Times, Paikin independently raised their name. “You’re talking about the Sharabi girls?” she said. “No, they just — they were shot. I’m saying ‘just,’ but they were shot and were not subjected to sexual abuse.” Paikin also disputed the graphic and highly detailed claims of the Israeli special forces paramedic who served as the source for the allegation, which was published in the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, and other media outlets. “It’s not true,” she told The Intercept, referring to the paramedic’s claims about the girls. “They were not sexually abused.”

“We stand by the story and are continuing to report on the issue of sexual violence on Oct. 7,” Times spokesperson Danielle Rhoades Ha told The Intercept.

A spokesperson for the Israeli government, Eylon Levy, played a lead role in connecting the anonymous paramedic with international media outlets.

As The Intercept previously reported, Anat Schwartz — an Israeli filmmaker who, before joining the Times, appeared to have no prior experience reporting the news — was hired by the paper to investigate sexual violence on October 7. She worked under Pulitzer Prize-winning correspondent Jeffrey Gettleman, and alongside Adam Sella, who was contracted shortly after October 7 to work for the Times; Sella’s own journalism experience was mostly writing about food and culture. Ben Smith, the editor-in-chief of Semafor and the former media columnist for the New York Times, reported Sunday that Sella recommended his uncle’s partner, Schwartz, to the Jerusalem bureau chief, and she was brought on board for the investigation. Schwartz told Israeli Army Radio she had personally conducted over 150 interviews for the story.

In a podcast interview produced by Israel’s Channel 12 in January, Schwartz described in detail how she sought to confirm that the girls had been sexually assaulted. She said she first learned of the case when she saw an interview with a man identified as a paramedic from an elite Israeli military unit. The Israeli government coordinated media interviews with the paramedic, who did them with his back turned to the camera to avoid being identified.

In her podcast interview, Schwartz said that she had been unable to find a second source to confirm the paramedic’s account. “I don’t have a second source … for the paramedic with the girls in Be’eri,” she said. “This stage of [getting the] second source, it took a very long time.” While she mentions the second source, in the interview Schwartz does not mention any specifics about actually finding one, and the Times report does not cite any other corroborating witness for its portrayal of the condition in which the girls were allegedly discovered by the paramedic.

In the report, the Times presents unnamed “neighbors” at Kibbutz Be’eri who “said their bodies had been found alone, separated from the rest of their family.” According to the family, however, not even that detail is accurate.

A recent interview in the Israeli media with the Sharabi sisters’ grandparents offers details that directly contradict the Times reporting that the girls at Kibbutz Be’eri were sexually assaulted on October 7. “They were just shot — nothing else had been done to them,” their grandmother Gillian Brisley told Channel 12. (A U.K.-based lawyer for the Brisley family did not immediately respond to a request for comment.) The family also gave several interviews to international news outlets before “Screams Without Words” was published that provided information that undercuts the assertions in the Times article, raising questions about why the paper did not include these publicly available details.

The Brisley family and relatives in Israel who lived with the Sharabis at Kibbutz Be’eri have never asserted that the girls were sexually assaulted. In numerous interviews, the Brisleys have maintained the girls were killed alongside their mother.

According to the Times report, “Screams Without Words”:

A paramedic in an Israeli commando unit said that he had found the bodies of two teenage girls in a room in Be’eri.

One was lying on her side, he said, boxer shorts ripped, bruises by her groin. The other was sprawled on the floor face down, he said, pajama pants pulled to her knees, bottom exposed, semen smeared on her back.

Because his job was to look for survivors, he said, he kept moving and did not document the scene. Neighbors of the two girls killed — who were sisters, 13 and 16 — said their bodies had been found alone, separated from the rest of their family.

The Israeli military allowed the paramedic to speak with reporters on the condition that he not be identified because he serves in “an elite unit.”


On February 29, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcast a feature story on the grandparents, who traveled from Britain to the kibbutz to view the home where their loved ones died and to meet with neighbors, family members, and officials. In the interview, the Brisleys’ description of the deaths of their daughter, Lianne, and their granddaughters contradict virtually every detail, outside of the Be’eri girls’ ages and that they were killed, presented in the Times article.

“They were found between the ‘mamad’” — the house’s safe room — “and the dining room and it’s an awful thing to say, they were just shot — nothing else had been done to them. They were shot,” said Gillian Brisley. “A soldier said he saw our daughter” — the girls’ mother — “but she was covering the two girls and they were shot,” added her husband, Pete, the girls’ grandfather. “The seventh of October was the saddest day of my life.”

Months before the Times story was published on December 28, the Brisleys had already given an interview to the BBC offering details contradicting the depiction that would later appear in the Times, including the assertion the girls were found alone in a room. Gillian Brisley told the BBC on October 30 that the teenage girls were “found all cuddled together with Lianne doing what a mother would do — holding her babies in her arms, trying to protect them at the end.” Brisley said it was a “small comfort but a comfort nevertheless.”

On October 24, the Israeli news site Walla published a story about the family, which also said the girls were killed alongside their mother. Sharon Sharabi, whose brother Eli was the father of the two girls and was kidnapped that day and reportedly taken to Gaza, said that Palestinian fighters entered the family home, broke into their safe room, and killed Lianne and the two girls. “Lianne and [Y] were only identified through dental records, and [N] by DNA,” he said. He did not specify where the forensic examinations had taken place. N was initially reported missing for two weeks because her body had yet to be formally identified.

Sharon Sharabi told The Intercept that his family has not been provided with any specific details about his nieces’ deaths that would allow him to draw a firm conclusion about what happened to them that day. “To tell you concretely what happened in Be’eri, or what happened at the house of the Sharabi family, I don’t have an answer for you,” he said. “There is certainly no credible information I can give you, only testimonies of ZAKA” — private rescue workers — “or of military personnel who arrived at the scene first and saw the atrocities. So any information I might give you is information that I’m not confident about, and therefore I would rather not give it [at all].”

He added, “I’ve heard all the versions. What’s the truth? I don’t know.” Sharabi emphasized that he firmly believes there was widespread sexual violence committed during the attacks of October 7.

Before the Times published its exposé, the Israeli military paramedic claimed in interviews with the Washington Post, CNN, and an Indian news channel to have seen evidence that two girls had been sexually assaulted at a kibbutz. “One was on the bed. Her arm was dangling from the bed frame. Her legs were bare, with bruises, and she had a bullet hole in the chest-neck area,” he told the Post. The details of the recollection closely matched those the paramedic gave to the Times.

The paramedic’s story was met with skepticism by the news site Mondoweiss. In his first interview, on October 25, with an Indian news channel, the paramedic said he witnessed the scene at Kibbutz Nahal Oz, not Be’eri.

According to the official records of October 7 deaths at Kibbutz Nahal Oz, there were no victims that matched the age estimates offered by the paramedic. The closest possible match would have been sisters who were 18 and 20 years old, who were killed at their home at the kibbutz along with their parents.

When Levy, the Israeli government spokesperson, promoted the Indian TV interview on social media that day, he posted an edited portion of the interview which removed reference to Nahal Oz. Instead, Levy wrote in a tweet that it had occurred at Kibbutz Be’eri, where official records indicated two teenage sisters roughly matching the paramedics description had been killed. “Israeli special forces paramedic describes the aftermath of the brutal rape and execution of Israeli girls in Be’eri during the October 7 Massacre,” Levy tweeted October 25. In a subsequent post, he wrote, “If media want to interview this special forces paramedic about the horrors he saw in the kibbutzim on October 7, drop me a message in my DMs.” When the paramedic was later interviewed on CNN, on November 18, he maintained he had seen the two girls at Kibbutz Be’eri. In his tweet, Levy implied that the paramedic had been to multiple kibbutzim.

By the time Schwartz met the paramedic, the location of the scene was fixed at Be’eri. Schwartz said during her podcast interview that she put extensive effort into trying to confirm the paramedic’s story. “I said, if I want information about the rapes, I have to call the kibbutzim — and nothing,” she said. “No one saw or heard anything.”

Eventually, she reached the unit 669 paramedic, identified in some media interviews as “G.” He relayed the same story he had told other media outlets. Schwartz cited this incident as a central reason she concluded there was organized sexual violence on October 7. “I say, ‘OK, so it happened, one person saw it happen in Be’eri, so it can’t be just one person, because it’s two girls. It’s sisters. It’s in the room. Something about it is systematic, something about it feels to me that it’s not random,” Schwartz concluded on the podcast.

Schwartz does not mention the unnamed neighbors who allegedly saw the two girls alone in the podcast.

It is unclear why the Times did not include the well-publicized statements from the Be’eri girls’ family members. Several of them have done interviews with Israeli media and international newspapers and TV networks, including the BBC, the Daily Mail, and the Daily Telegraph.

The case received significant media attention in the U.K. because Lianne was a British citizen who emigrated to Israel, and her children were dual citizens. The family has also been outspoken in pressuring the British government to put greater effort into freeing Lianne’s husband, Eli Sharabi, the father of the two girls, who is believed to be a hostage in Gaza. The Times article does not mention the fact that there are conflicting details and instead airs the single-sourced assertions offered by the paramedic. If Times reporters had other sources for this story, aside from neighbors who allegedly told the Times the girls were found alone, the readers were not given any indication of it.

On Monday, United Nations Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict Pramila Patten reported that her team found information indicating sexual violence took place. “In the context of the coordinated attack by Hamas and other armed groups against civilian and military targets throughout the Gaza periphery, the mission team found that there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in multiple locations during the 7 October attacks, including rape and gang-rape in at least three locations, namely: the Nova music festival site and its surroundings, Road 232, and Kibbutz Re’im,” the report release said, calling for a full investigation. The special representative wrote, “Overall, the mission team was unable to establish whether sexual violence occurred in kibbutz Be’eri.”

The special representative found two high-profile cases of sexual assault alleged to have happened at Kibbutz Be’eri to be “unfounded.” In its coverage of the U.N. report, the Times sourcing on the alleged assaults in Be’eri moves from a singular first responder to plural, and claims that the sexual assault it identified was a separate incident than the two described by the U.N. “First responders told The New York Times they had found bodies of women with signs of sexual assault at those two kibbutzim, but The Times, in its investigation, did not refer to the specific allegations that the U.N. said were unfounded,” the Times reported. (“The plural ‘first responders’ is accurate,” said the Times spokesperson, without elaborating.)

The controversy around the Times coverage gained momentum last week after X user Zei Squirrel highlighted Schwartz’s social media activity, which included “liking” a post that expressed genocidal incitement against Palestinians in Gaza, calling to “turn the strip into a slaughterhouse.” The Intercept then published excerpts of an interview in which Schwartz offered revelatory details about the Times’s reporting process. For months, independent news outlets such as Mondoweiss, The Grayzone, and Electronic Intifada, as well as the independent research collective October 7 Fact Check, have been documenting a variety of problems with the Times story and highlighting inconsistencies.

On January 5, Laila Al-Arian, an Emmy and Polk Award-winning executive producer for Al Jazeera English, sent an email to New York Times international editor Phil Pan, as well as Jerusalem bureau chief Patrick Kingsley and the Times standards department, posing detailed questions about the veracity of the Times report. She received no response.

Amid mounting public scrutiny, the Times assigned its reporters to effectively re-report their story. The resulting article was published on January 29, and the paper has since maintained it stands by the original report.

Meanwhile, the Times newsroom is facing a serious internal conflict over its coverage of the war against Gaza. Shortly after the December 28 “Screams Without Words” article was published, the paper’s flagship podcast “The Daily” was tasked with converting it into an episode. After a review by producers, the original script, drafted to hew closely to the original article, was shelved, with a more circumspect and caveated script written.

The new script raised problems for the masthead. Running a watered-down version of the article would raise questions as to whether the paper was standing by its reporting amid criticism, including, most prominently, from the family of Gal Abdush. No episode of “The Daily” on the December 28 story has run to date.

The Intercept reported on the internal dispute at the Times in late January. The paper’s masthead responded not by reviewing its reporting, as it did after the debacle over weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but instead by launching a highly unusual leak investigation. The Times union denounced the probe this weekend for racially profiling journalists with Middle Eastern and North African backgrounds. The probe, the union said, also focused on journalists who used proper Times channels to critique the reporting, as reporters are encouraged to do.

Times Executive Editor Joe Kahn responded to criticism of the internal probe Saturday in a companywide email, arguing that the leak investigation was proper because the whistleblowers had revealed details about an unpublished episode of “The Daily.” That argument, however, elides the reality that the dispute was not about something the Times did not publish, but rather about something that it did.

“They know better than anyone that leaks are desperate measures when people want to expose grave failures without any safe or efficient internal mechanisms,” said one Times source. “Trying to crush the messenger won’t make the basic fact that the story is a journalism failure go away.”
https://theintercept.com/2024/03/04/nyt ... utz-beeri/
By wat0n
#15306651
Yes, that is also mentioned in the UN report.

This doesn't mean that it doesn't allege there were mass rapes, going all the way into necrophilia.

Mission report Official visit of the Office of the SRSG-SVC to Israel and the occupied West Bank 29 January – 14 February 2024 wrote:Nova Music Festival and surrounding areas

57. The Nova music festival, an outdoor event in an open field about 5 km from the Gaza perimeter fence, attracted around 3,500 attendees, mainly young individuals. Information reviewed by the mission team indicates that the festival was a site of grave violations including brutal mass murders, with several hundreds of bodies recovered from the site in addition to many abductions. Bodies were also found with extensive burn damage.

58. Based on the examination of available information, including credible statements by eyewitnesses, there are reasonable grounds to believe that multiple incidents of rape, including gang rape, occurred in and around the Nova festival site during the 7 October attacks. Credible information was obtained regarding multiple incidents whereby victims were subjected to rape and then killed. There are further accounts of individuals who witnessed at least two incidents of rape of corpses of women. Other credible sources at the Nova music festival site described seeing multiple murdered individuals, mostly women, whose bodies were found naked from the waist down, some totally naked, with some gunshots in the head and/or tied including with their hands bound behind their backs and tied to structures such as trees or poles.


This is a tactic quite common among Holocaust deniers, I wonder if October 7 denial will become an updated version of that.
#15306657
@wat0n

"necrophilia"

Have you ever considered getting professional help? You seem to have developed an obsessive preoccupation with what are particularly niche Zionist sexual fantasies - Arabs fucking dead Jews - and atrocity porn.

It can't be healthy.
Last edited by ingliz on 06 Mar 2024 09:39, edited 2 times in total.
#15306658
The Liberals were perfectly fine with the sexual humiliation of suspects without trial or due process after 9/11. In fact the Liberals were so proud of their actions that they even celebrated them in Hollywood movies. Now I could never get Liberals to specify whether it was OK to sexually humiliate men but not women. And if so, how in God's name these interrogators were meant to tell the difference between a man and a woman. These were not scientific specialist in human biology, how could they tell? There would also be the question of whether its OK to commit sexual humiliation against Trans men without even a hint of due process.
By late
#15306662
skinster wrote:
Damn, even @late has joined Team Anti-Zionists.

wat0n really is a lonely figure when it comes to shilling Zionism. I almost feel sorry for him. :D



Some guy that went to the Nuremburg Trials to see what evil looked like wound up talking about the banality of evil. They looked like ordinary guys, and they were, with the exception of a moral defect that didn't show up when you looked at them.

For me, this is an ocean of sadness. Israel started out Left wing, with dreams of peace and making the desert bloom. Now they are mass murderers.

I knew the relationship between America and Israel was under strain. But large amounts of money papered over problems, and dirty politics took care of the rest. I did not think I would live long enough to see this break out into the open. I would have preferred not to have seen it, for a f***ing ton of reasons.
#15306665
late wrote:Some guy that went to the Nuremburg Trials to see what evil looked like wound up talking about the banality of evil.

But what is evil. Many of these Nazis seemed to genuinely believe that the Jews were not just an existential threat to the German nation and the German Volk, but were an existential threat to humanity as a whole. Many of these Nazis seemed to genuinely believe that the Jews were evil, given their beliefs were they not trying to do the right thing.

But before we mock the Germans for a ridiculous belief, lets remember that many westerners came to believe something similar about the Germans. It wasn't as extreme as the Nazis views of the Jews but it was still extreme enough to justify genocide. Genocide of the Germans or at least the genocidal extermination of the German urban working class was part of the motivation for the extermination bombing of German cities.

If this wasn't bad enough the Liberal hypocrites have openly revived the Nazi theory that Russians are Asiatic sub humans.
By late
#15306668
Rich wrote:
But what is evil.



Mass murder is evil.

We are at our best when we argue and squabble and blunder along.

We are at our worst when we try to kill those we disagree with..
#15306673
late wrote:Mass murder is evil.

Murder is wrong by definition. Murder is indeed very wrong by definition. Manslaughter is wrong, no I think we can say that manslaughter is very wrong, I think most people consider manslaughter more wrong even than say misgendering some one's pronoun. I think that we can say that manslaughter is very wrong, which makes murder very very wrong. so what you are in effect saying is

Mass very, very wrongness is evil

So thanks for clarifying that mass very, very wrongness is very, very wrong. I tend to think about things mathematically. So I would put number of murders upon the X axis and quantity of wrongness or evil on the Y axis. So my natural inclination would be to presume that even if the graph was not linear, I would presume that dy/dx was positive for all values of x from 0 to infinity. But thanks for clarifying that.

For this post I have left aside the question of what evil is. It certainly seems to be related to wrongness, either by quantity of wrongness or concentration of wrongness.
By late
#15306676
Rich wrote:
Murder is wrong by definition. Murder is indeed very wrong by definition. Manslaughter is wrong, no I think we can say that manslaughter is very wrong, I think most people consider manslaughter more wrong even than say misgendering some one's pronoun. I think that we can say that manslaughter is very wrong, which makes murder very very wrong. so what you are in effect saying is

Mass very, very wrongness is evil

So thanks for clarifying that mass very, very wrongness is very, very wrong. I tend to think about things mathematically. So I would put number of murders upon the X axis and quantity of wrongness or evil on the Y axis. So my natural inclination would be to presume that even if the graph was not linear, I would presume that dy/dx was positive for all values of x from 0 to infinity. But thanks for clarifying that.

For this post I have left aside the question of what evil is. It certainly seems to be related to wrongness, either by quantity of wrongness or concentration of wrongness.



What you appear to be dancing around is the notion that value judgements are subjective.

That's reasonable.

When you turn that into formal schemes like law or ethics, it's also tricky.

But not mathematical...
By wat0n
#15306680
ingliz wrote:@wat0n

"necrophilia"

Have you ever considered getting professional help? You seem to have developed an obsessive preoccupation with what are particularly niche Zionist sexual fantasies - Arabs fucking dead Jews - and atrocity porn.

It can't be healthy.


Don't blame me, this is what the UN report finds to be a "credible" allegation of what happened on October 7.

I actually think it's shocking too, but you and others are more than willing to believe anything the UN says when it comes to whatever Israel does to Palestinians.
#15306694
wat0n wrote:Don't blame me, this is what the UN report finds to be a "credible" allegation of what happened on October 7.

I actually think it's shocking too, but you and others are more than willing to believe anything the UN says when it comes to whatever Israel does to Palestinians.


Stop lying and please, lessen your rape fantasies in public. Zionists are bad enough without this shit on repeat.


late wrote:For me, this is an ocean of sadness. Israel started out Left wing, with dreams of peace and making the desert bloom. Now they are mass murderers.


Israel was always a racist colonial project. The early Zionists were open about this and so were the Brits that aided them. The desert was already blooming, that line is a Zionist lie. They were always mass murderers, how else do you get to steal a country, by asking? Do you think you'd just walk away if foreigners asked to take your land and home?

Ilan Pappe, an Israeli historian, wrote about that history in his book, which you can read here: The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. Here is the writer giving a talk on the subject:
By wat0n
#15306703
If you have problems with the Pratten report, even though it does say that some allegations were not found to be substantiated and others were deemed to be "credible" (including the necrophilia one), I hope you will also ignore any and all other UN reports on the conflict.

But I am sure you will, because you are pro-rape and necrophilia, as long as the victims are Jewish or believed to be Jewish.
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