Israel-Palestinian War 2023 - Page 140 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Political issues and parties in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

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#15304284
noemon wrote:The crusades were conceived as a response to Muslim aggression and imperialism...
(my bold)

The CrusadesTM were marketed as a response to Muslim aggression and imperialism.TM

:

Image
Young and unemployed? Starving and hopeless?
Eat great food, kill bad guys, and ensure a place in heaven by joining the Crusades!
Respond now! Recruiters are waiting.


***

You use the word "conceived," and, having worked in marketing myself, the conception happens on the drawing board before the first Muslims are ever killed.

ChristianityTM provides the perfect emotional pre-propaganda for this kind of marketing campaign. If all else fails, tell superstitious Christians that they will be killing Muslims "for Christ."

Today, of course, we say "Western Civilization" because the Christ-angle has lost its effectiveness in the age of mass literacy and travel.

The "Western Civilization" angle is weakening by the day as well... so be prepared for a new marketing twist in the last years of the West's Bankster Empire.
#15305352
@wat0n I have seen houndred tanks blown up to pieces on Indian media outlet "Hindustan Times". Israel faces a bloody guerilla war against an enemy who had years to prepare.


The houthis have recruited over 200 000 new fighters.

What could be a peacfull solution a la Saladin and Richard Lionheart... who were responsible enough not to create an Armaggedon
Last edited by Skynet on 24 Feb 2024 02:59, edited 1 time in total.
#15305354
@Skynet the fact of the matter is that Israel has already taken both Gaza City and Khan Younis, and may as well go after Rafah.

Hamas doesn't want a peaceful solution, they have made it clear since the beginning. The best they'll get is to get the remnants of its armed force being allowed to leave Gaza unarmed, and that would be the best way to end this war at that.
#15305424
It is true that Hamas does not want a peaceful solution.

Nor does the current Israeli government, nor the IDF.

This is why Hamas has been so successful in goading the IDF into constant attacks and thereby weakening international support for Israeli military activities.
#15305427
And in the process, Hamas is being rendered unable to keep fighting Israel too. That doesn't sound like a good outcome for them.

In the end, Hamas may be left unable to fight and the Israeli right may be left unable to be reelected. This would be the best possible outcome for everyone.
#15305431
Israeli problema with ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestine are not confined to a few bad apples on the right.

The problems are systemic.

Settler colonialism is a structure, not an event.
#15305436
Neither are attacks against civilians by Palestinians armed groups (and irredentism more generally) solely pushed by Hamas and even islamists in general, yet both the Israeli left and Fatah are more likely to show willingness to reach an agreement than the Israeli right and islamists.
#15306025
Pants-of-dog wrote:Israeli problema with ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestine are not confined to a few bad apples on the right.

The problems are systemic.

Settler colonialism is a structure, not an event.

And a huge part of that structure are all the lies that have to be told to make it palatable.

So to run a solid settler-colonial state, you have to have a massive Lie-Machine.

Otherwise, if you can't block news, you risk things like the following video getting out...

http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2313104451825
#15306129
140+ days into the genocidal war on Gaza and the Israelis are effectively losing since they can't hold any ground in Gaza and have rescued about zero hostages.

Hezbollah have shrunk the size of Israel for the first time since the 1967 war by removing hundreds of thousands of settlers from the north. Israeli ministers recently stated no plans to return there until at least July. Keep dreaming. :D

Close to a million Israelis, if not more, have departed their lives as occupiers in Palestine because it turns out that when you have somewhere else to go and your life is at risk, you might pick that option.

Yemen's Red Sea blockade continues and has resulted in the port of Eilat in Israel being closed and like the Hezbolloah attacks on the north, has cost Israel's economy A LOT.

wat0n wrote:So, it turns out some 12 UNRWA employees may have participated in the October 7 massacre.They were fired by UNRWA, but this poses many questions - are there other employees that are aiding Hamas? How does UNRWA exercise oversight over its employees? How much deference does UNRWA show towards Hamas, which is the de facto government of Gaza?

This has led the US and Canada to cut all funding to UNRWA. UNRWA is also the key agency managing humanitarian aid to Gazan civilians, so this is quite serious.


The story of UNRWA staff turned out to be bullshit and the cessation in funding of UNRWA, something Zionists have been trying to get rid of since it became a thing, was in direct response to the South Africans' interim ruling of Israeli genocide in the World Court.

More recently, countries and regions who cut funding have reinstated it.

annatar1914 wrote:Let's not fool ourselves, this is the real context of the conflict:

The Caliphate blah blah blah


Nonsense. It's not a religious war and it never was. None of the Arab or Muslim states speak about Palestine with regard to a caliphate or whatever, either.

wat0n wrote:@Skynet the fact of the matter is that Israel has already taken both Gaza City and Khan Younis, and may as well go after Rafah.


Bombing an area to smithereens = "taken" :eh:

Hamas doesn't want a peaceful solution,


It's Netanyahu's ruling coalition of fascists that refuse a peaceful solution. Hamas has offered all hostages for its own and the Israelis have shown no interest in getting their hostages back. Netanyahu knows his career is over as soon as his genocide in Gaza ends, that's why he's continuing like the maniac that he is.

Pants-of-dog wrote:It is true that Hamas does not want a peaceful solution.


No, it isn't. If you read the statements coming from Hamas and other resistance orgs in Palestine, they make clear their interests and intentions. The only way you can make the above claim is if you believe Hamas don't have any right to demand the return of their hostages and an end to the genocide on the concentration camp they live in.

This is why Hamas has been so successful in goading the IDF into constant attacks and thereby weakening international support for Israeli military activities.


Hamas and other resistance orgs have been successful against the IDF because the IDF are a Tik-Tok army whose experience in war amounts to video games. When they've had to deal man-to-man, they've had their asses handed to them. Even elite IDF forces like the Golani brigade had to leave Gaza..
#15306142
@skinster you're delusional as always. Even if there are holdouts north of Rafah, Hamas is unable to govern there and much of its force is unable to keep fighting.

As for UNRWA, some of those employees are shown in October 7 footage.
#15306145
There is one video clip that supposedly shows a single UNRWA employee.

His family was killed in a bombing on October 16th.

Do you think the killing of his wife and kids was retaliatory?
#15306146
skinster wrote:It's Netanyahu's ruling coalition of fascists

Fascists? What kind of fantasy world are you living in? Netanyahu leads a coalition that won an absolute majority of the vote. Netanyahu has a far better democratic mandate that Biden or Trump are ever likely to have. The fascists in Israel as in western countries are the Liberals who think unelected judges should be able to over rule Israel's elected government.

that refuse a peaceful solution. Hamas has offered all hostages for its own and the Israelis have shown no interest in getting their hostages back. Netanyahu knows his career is over as soon as his genocide in Gaza ends, that's why he's continuing like the maniac that he is.

No, it isn't. If you read the statements coming from Hamas and other resistance orgs in Palestine, they make clear their interests and intentions. The only way you can make the above claim is if you believe Hamas don't have any right to demand the return of their hostages

As I understand it the large majority of Jewish Israelis want to see Hamas destroyed. Again I think Hamas and its western supporters might be deluding themselves if they think they can carry out an attack like 10/7 and then return to business as usual.

and an end to the genocide on the concentration camp they live in.

Hamas and other resistance orgs have been successful against the IDF because the IDF are a Tik-Tok army whose experience in war amounts to video games. When they've had to deal man-to-man, they've had their asses handed to them. Even elite IDF forces like the Golani brigade had to leave Gaza..

Look we can have an interesting philosophical debate about whether is Israel is committing war crimes. We can have an interesting philosophical debate about whether Israel's actions are legal or not under "International Law". But whatever. The facts seem to be that Palestinians are dying in large numbers. It seems a lot more more people are dying than can be replaced. Netanyahu doesn't need to be in any hurry to finish this war, because the longer this war goes on for, the smaller Gaza's population will be.

Now I know a lot of Liberals have seen the 10/7 attacks as a wonderful boon that will lead to Netanyahu's demise. But I can't see the left wanting to take charge anytime soon. I doubt that they will want to take over the task of annihilating Hamas from Netanyahu. But nor do I see them wanting to step in to save Hamas from destruction and allow them to rebuild. The likes of Joe Biden and Keir Starmer may whine and buck a bit. They may make some idle virtue signalling noises, but at the end of the day it seems they'll back Netanyahu.
#15306151
Pants-of-dog wrote:There is one video clip that supposedly shows a single UNRWA employee.

His family was killed in a bombing on October 16th.

Do you think the killing of his wife and kids was retaliatory?


Was he killed too?
#15306180
Excellent speech by a Palestinian activist: "There is no debating our liberation, no debating our right to resistance. There is no shame in resistance. We are beyond persuasion and power point presentations, we must abolish Zionism."



wat0n wrote:@skinster you're delusional as always. Even if there are holdouts north of Rafah, Hamas is unable to govern there and much of its force is unable to keep fighting.


You don't make any sense and reality clearly is not your friend. Hamas and other resistance orgs have not lost control of Gaza nor are they unable to keep fighting. IDF terrorists are getting killed every time they enter Gaza. From just this week:

Who's killing them?






As for UNRWA, some of those employees are shown in October 7 footage.


This is just something you pulled out of your ass. Stop lying because I will keep pointing out your lies and then everyone will see how you just lie and lie and lie and then you'll be known popularly as a liar and...nobody wants that, really. Do better!

Rich wrote:Fascists? What kind of fantasy world are you living in?


You're denying Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir and Smotrich are fascists?

Here, learn. It's not uncontroversial. The cause of the brewing civil war within Israel proper before Oct 7th was in part because many in Israel didn't want to be ruled by overt fascists (they preferred the subtle types).

As I understand it the large majority of Jewish Israelis want to see Hamas destroyed. Again I think Hamas and its western supporters might be deluding themselves if they think they can carry out an attack like 10/7 and then return to business as usual.


You have things backwards. It is Israel that won't be going back to business as usual after Oct 7., and in that, that operation was successful. Since then, Israel has shrunk its borders, a sixth of the population has fled, hundreds of IDF terrorists have been killed, hostages are still held hostage, the IDF cannot reach or destroy the tunnels, and Gaza cannot be occupied by ground forces for more than a day.

The only war the Israelis are winning is genocide against a civilian population, but if one wants to call that 'winning', well...it's definitely not winning Israel allies.

I doubt that they will want to take over the task of annihilating Hamas from Netanyahu.


This silly notion of annihilating Hamas should be put to bed. It will never happen. You cannot eliminate an idea and just because people in the West call that idea of resistance against occupation "Hamas", won't change anything about it. Resistance is justified when people are occupied and they're not going to stop that resistance until the occupation ends.
#15306196
wat0n wrote:Was he killed too?


No, it was the usual IDF tactic of bombing a residential home while there were only women and children in it.

I am suggesting the IDF deliberately targeted and killed this family in retaliation for the employee’s alleged involvement in the attack.
#15306208
skinster wrote:You don't make any sense and reality clearly is not your friend. Hamas and other resistance orgs have not lost control of Gaza nor are they unable to keep fighting. IDF terrorists are getting killed every time they enter Gaza. From just this week:

Who's killing them?






As I said, there are still holdouts. That doesn't mean Hamas can still govern, indeed, if Hamas has full control why are there Israeli soldiers there to begin with?

Also, Israeli casualties have been a lot lower than initially expected. One would have thought Hamas and the other armed groups would have killed 10 times more soldiers.

skinster wrote:This is just something you pulled out of your ass. Stop lying because I will keep pointing out your lies and then everyone will see how you just lie and lie and lie and then you'll be known popularly as a liar and...nobody wants that, really. Do better!


https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... -7-israel/

There's a side by side comparison. This is the same person.

Pants-of-dog wrote:No, it was the usual IDF tactic of bombing a residential home while there were only women and children in it.

I am suggesting the IDF deliberately targeted and killed this family in retaliation for the employee’s alleged involvement in the attack.


Prove this.
#15306213
wat0n wrote:Prove this.

This is always the pat liberal response. The highest and noblest motives must always be attributed to the Liberal unless it can be categorically proven otherwise and even then of course he will say this is just one bad apple. On the other hand the Liberal is entitled to attribute the most evil intentions to every action of his enemies. It now seems pretty certain that Navalny was killed by the Ukrainians, will they be apologising for the false accusations that they threw at Putin. I don't think so. Where as there's been a ton of accusations against Hamas. How many of these have been proven in impartial court with proper due process?
#15306216
Rich wrote:This is always the pat liberal response. The highest and noblest motives must always be attributed to the Liberal unless it can be categorically proven otherwise and even then of course he will say this is just one bad apple. On the other hand the Liberal is entitled to attribute the most evil intentions to every action of his enemies. It now seems pretty certain that Navalny was killed by the Ukrainians, will they be apologising for the false accusations that they threw at Putin. I don't think so. Where as there's been a ton of accusations against Hamas. How many of these have been proven in impartial court with proper due process?


None, because they haven't been tried yet.

But there's definitely flagrancy, or am I supposed to believe this isn't flagrant?



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