US Presidential election 2024 thread. - Page 23 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15306101
Rich wrote:
The United States already support free and universal healthcare, just indirectly and not in the United States. By underwriting Europe's defence, the US allows Europe to spend its money on health care, welfare and other things. Denmark just gave away all its artillery. That's how much of a joke the Danish armed forces are. We don't need artillery when big Daddy America will come in and protect us.



"But in response to the Ukraine crisis, it pledged last year to permanently increase spending on defence and security to 2% of gross domestic product by the end of 2030, a key goal for NATO member states.

"We must, to a greater extent, be able to live up to the demands and expectations that NATO and its allies have for Denmark," Troels Lund Poulsen, acting defence minister, told a press conference. "This requires large investments in our armed forces to lift our share of the responsibility."

Denmark plans to invest 143 billion Danish crowns ($21 billion) in defence over the next 10 years, which combined with increased military aid to Ukraine will help it achieve NATO's spending target this year, its government said"

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/denmark-plans-defence-investment-21-bln-over-next-decade-2023-05-30/

Things change, even when you don't..
#15306103
Istanbuller wrote:Trump win can be helpful and healing for both sides. It will remind Republicans that Anglo culture is still with America. IIt will remind Democrats that hating Trump is only harmful to themselves. Trump gets elected no matter how they hate Trump. They can let this obbsession go away.

Another Biden win can be worse scenario for America. Democracy sometimes leads to bad things.

So you are happy that a Trump victory would signal a *win* for the right in the USA's useless culture wars, and would remind Democrats not to hate?

What happened to "develop the economy," "ensure that ethics are respected" and "make good relations with other countries" ?

Thrown into the dustbin?
#15306108
QatzelOk wrote:Why isn't your mother teaching you to eat healthy foods? Because she's watching TV.

Why isn't your father teaching you to eat healthy foods? Because he's gone exploring in the car.

Just sit there and get your education from TV and other commercial media products, junior.

Image
"If only someone had raised me... I wouldn't need to be on this treadmill ever day...."

► Show Spoiler


Sometimes, it really feels hopeless Q. It does.

But? I think humans will eventually wake up and smell the coffee eh?

I noticed that in the Yucatan very few people smoke Q. You rarely see smokers in restaurants or at the park or anywhere. Yes, there are smokers and the cigarettes here aren't that expensive to buy.

They try to sell Havana Cigars in the Plaza Grande. But locals do not buy that usually. I asked why there was hardly a space that is shared in public where smoking is not strictly forbidden. They all are. An official for the city said that they had a massive campaign long ago on kicking the habit among the public in the Yucatan. It worked. }

Just when you think an old dog can't learn new tricks he or she does.

Bolivians hate McDonald's. They tried and they closed shop.

In Mexico most people really prefer small businesses. The big supermarkets with some rare exceptions are kind of empty all the time. The small mercados and tiny microbusinesses thrive in this city. I asked about that. Tradition. Most people prefer tiny businesses for everything. Tortilla buying, Fruit buying, veggies, rice and beans, etc. They prefer SMALL always. Local always.

Chains exist. But it is the middle class and the rich who shop there. Those are a minority of Mexicans regardless. So?

The US can change its habits. That they will do so? In time? That is a toss up. Maybe. Maybe not. It depends on people getting fed up with shit.

If Trump takes over for another term he is first of all old and confused. Who knows how long that man is going to last anyway...he is going to be in his eighties if he survives another four years. His policies are going to be implemented. Right wing extreme policies. If he croaks another autocrat from the Republican party will take over using the same Donaldesque formula. That the SCOTUS has paved, the US Senate has paved, and the razor thin margin and speaker of the House has paved for him.

The USA can get used to the autocracy. Accepts gag laws, and people disappearing in the middle of the night. A few thousand or maybe a million people being either killed or disappeared that are not on board with the Autocratic thing from the violent prone Right.

Or? Huge swathes of people organize and get aggressive and very strategic undermining the ones in power with the autocratic bullshit. And there is an internal Civil War. It could last a few years or a decade. Meanwhile, the PRC, and EU and others like South Korea, and etc move on without the USA leading policy. They say yes yes to Donald man and Donald's finger pointed replacement and puppet senate, etc. and keep going.

If the US government run by Donaldesque folks get angry over being cut out of power, they might press a nuke towards China, the Middle East or some other group. Even Europe if they think it will serve their interests. If they do so? They spell the end of American power. Both soft and hard.

Because once that is done? No one is going to recover. The A Bombs of 2024 are not what they were in WWII. They are vastly more destructive, highly more radioactive and far more deadly for the environment and for human life.

The Radiation is going to speed up environmental destruction and you shall have such difficulty with basics like clean water, unradiated and uncontaminated fresh food, and tolerable temps that all of it will have a detrimental long term effect on governments and peoples.

A real possibility of losing more than 85% of humanity is a real likelihood. That means not sustaining cities. Abandonment in a mass way of all urbainzations and retiring from modern styles of life. It is go to a bunker, get some unradiated food, and limited aquifers not affected by the fallout and wait it out for a thousand years.

It is regression and almost stone age limits for a very long time. Lucky if we even get to space in time. All that shit is going to be scrapped and forgotten as some fantasy from a civilization that killed itself with myths about being the greatest nation on Earth and the best system on Earth and the best...all EGO shit that did not think scientifically about a damn thing. Irrationality and the stupidity factor talked about in Harari's book made an appearance Q.

End of the story.
#15306109
Istanbuller wrote:Trump won't disappear just because you guys hate or dislike him so much. You guys are obsessed with Trump. That also leads to tyranny rule as Democrats tried to decide who Republican Party's nominee will be.

Just let this obsession go away. You will be okay.

Also, how can be Trump presidency disastrous for America?


One of the things I noticed very early on about Trump supporters is how they deflect from a discussion about the behaviour and general suitability of their leader, to the behaviour of the person criticizing him.

Hate is too strong a word though. Contempt, disgust, revulsion, etc. are much better.

As for your question, are you actually serious?

First would be the revenge. Trump has already indicated he will have no qualms about using his term to get back at those he thinks have wronged him in some way, including those who sought to make him pay for his criminal activity. Apparently he would also pardon violent criminals who tried to keep him in power after he lost the 2020 election.

Then there would be the results of his obeisance to the evangelical right. Remember, the top Republican in the country right now thinks Noah's Ark was real, and there were dinosaurs on it. Trump has to keep that type of wingnut happy. The results as they affect women's rights, gay rights, trans rights, education, etc. would be appalling. Trump is an atheist, but he has no problem fooling religious people if it benefits him.

Then there's NATO. Putin's plan for Trump was an eight year plan, and not withstanding the shock Trump gave him by losing in 2020, another term could see NATO seriously depleted. Unless the Dem's Hail Mary legislation attempting to stop a President unilaterally leaving NATO holds. No guarantees there.

His environmental record in his first term was atrocious. No reason to imagine he won't continue down such a path. There could be some jobs sweeping forest floors but they probably won't be well paying.

I'm sure a more detailed look into the issue would show a lot more, and a lot worse, but if you believe America should be a Theocracy, gay people are an abomination in the eyes of the Lord, women are only good for incubating embryos, Illegal immigrants are poisoning the blood of the country, and environmental regulations purportedly choking the economy is worse than industry actually choking the people. then I suppose he would be good for your America.

I'm still hoping sanity prevails, though.
#15306112
Tainari88 wrote:Come on Rancid. I knew that about the Republican party aeons ago.

I think I figured that out a long time ago.

In order for you to be a racist piece of shit and couch all your platitudes in small government, and private industry thrives, and traditional values, and so on and so forth?

If you examine every single action they take it is the opposite of generosity. It is all selfish shit. Everything.

They band together to cover their values. What are the values? SELFISHNESS. Rich people keeping their wealth at the expense of the less wealthy. Hatred of the poor because they believe they are wealthy as God commands it in the bad values of Max Weber and his book Capitalism and the Protestant Ethic. You read that book and you're reading the culture of the White Anglo-Saxon Protestant mind in the USA. Where is the root culture of WASP people in the USA? England. The UK. Who are those people?

You work hard not to have fun and spend your money. You work hard to prove to God that you can be let into heaven. You must prove yourself worthy to a judgmental God, a male with a long beard judging you for value. You work, you are into self denial, no pleasure, no fun, the most morose fucking people on the face of the Earth. They hoard the wealth because it is their ticket to prove to a judgmental God that they are worthy. Poor people who are lazy and slovenly and repudiated do not get to heaven.

Exploitation is justified. The entire system hates the poor. Is that what Jesus wanted? No. But their distorted interpretation of Chrisitianity is the one held up as the true religion.

That Church of England was founded by King Henry VIII of England who wanted a divorce from the Pope from his first wife the Queen who was originally a very staunch Roman Catholic Spanish woman. Katherine. He could not divorce her through the RC religion so he dissolved that religion and made his own. The Church of England. And then what happened? Religious wars. Mary Queen of Scots, who was a Roman Catholic and Queen Elizabeth the I, the progeny of Ann and Henry the King. Lol. From the Church of England. It appealed to a lot of newly minted Protestants because the RC church would be forcing people to pay taxes and no one was getting ahead if you were not landed nobility. The Church at the time was founded about MONEY disputes.

That is the religion of the WASP people in the USA. It is about God loves you if you produce in terms of working yourself a lot for your benefit and you hoard it and then invest it and expand. You do not enjoy fun or spending. Or bling. Denial, morose, hoard the wealth, and God is judgmental and you have to buy your way into Heaven. No money, no hard work, God won't let you in.

A more materialistic and joyless fucking culture on the face of the Earth can't be found.

Lol.

See Rancid? That is the issue with the Republican Party. Liberals. Too many rainbows, good times, let everyone do their thing, and spend the money, spread the wealth. Love the losers who are poor. Be two-faced, and let it all swing around. Let it all happen.

They do not believe in equality and innate human values. They never have. I mean their God has to have proof in $$$$$$$$ to allow them into Paradise? Do you think they believe in equality and so on? It is fire and brimstone, and get a bunch of money and then be miserable with the money forever.

:lol: :D

Your critique aptly describes the prosperity gospel , as a general whole . However , there has also been a social gospel , within Protestant Christianity . That is the thing about Christian democracy , its parties can range from on the farthest left the Christian Democratic Party of Uruguay , and on the farthest right the Christian Democratic Party of Argentina . Such is the range of opinion found within political Christianity , there is both a Christian left as well as a Christian right , each claiming to be basing their policies upon biblical principles . The crucial question is how to translate precepts that were first laid out in the iron age to material conditions in the industrial age .
Last edited by Deutschmania on 02 Mar 2024 19:42, edited 1 time in total.
#15306113
Pewty wrote:One of the things I noticed very early on about Trump supporters is how they deflect from a discussion about the behaviour and general suitability of their leader, to the behaviour of the person criticizing him.

Hate is too strong a word though. Contempt, disgust, revulsion, etc. are much better.

As for your question, are you actually serious?

First would be the revenge. Trump has already indicated he will have no qualms about using his term to get back at those he thinks have wronged him in some way, including those who sought to make him pay for his criminal activity. Apparently he would also pardon violent criminals who tried to keep him in power after he lost the 2020 election.

Then there would be the results of his obeisance to the evangelical right. Remember, the top Republican in the country right now thinks Noah's Ark was real, and there were dinosaurs on it. Trump has to keep that type of wingnut happy. The results as they affect women's rights, gay rights, trans rights, education, etc. would be appalling. Trump is an atheist, but he has no problem fooling religious people if it benefits him.

Then there's NATO. Putin's plan for Trump was an eight year plan, and not withstanding the shock Trump gave him by losing in 2020, another term could see NATO seriously depleted. Unless the Dem's Hail Mary legislation attempting to stop a President unilaterally leaving NATO holds. No guarantees there.

His environmental record in his first term was atrocious. No reason to imagine he won't continue down such a path. There could be some jobs sweeping forest floors but they probably won't be well paying.

I'm sure a more detailed look into the issue would show a lot more, and a lot worse, but if you believe America should be a Theocracy, gay people are an abomination in the eyes of the Lord, women are only good for incubating embryos, Illegal immigrants are poisoning the blood of the country, and environmental regulations purportedly choking the economy is worse than industry actually choking the people. then I suppose he would be good for your America.

I'm still hoping sanity prevails, though.


Donald Trump taps into their subconscious minds. It is about security. Safety. No change to the status quo in their own minds.

The Rapture.



Meanwhile Trump does not know much about the Bible.

He is Presbyterian. Lol. Hee hee. Such a hypocrite.





Myth Pewty is about believing in something supernatural and preordained. Myth. God and Politics. Theocracy.

People should learn why mixing religion with politics is not good. There are so many examples of toxic wars about fine points in religion. How many Angels dance on a top of a pin. It is about MYTH. Their MYTH has to be true.

When reality plays itself out if they do become victorious? The ashes of the nation they were trying to protect will be the reality check. Reality hits the Myth again.

Another human civilization abandoned and taken over by plants and the jungle because the humans had to leave it behind. The MYTH was no longer believed. Humans have to keep getting hit in the face with the reality of what the differences are between myths and faith, and politics and government. Myth is about emotionally based needs in the human psyche, and government is about or should be set up to be strictly logical and science based. They do not combine or mix because if they are allowed to do so Pewty? You get the days of the religious wars. From Spain's history los Moros y los Cristianos. Moors vs. Christians. A war based on Religion that lasted 800 years.

If you fail to understand the past and human behavior in the past and the consequences of lessons done in the past and you repeat the same mistakes because you are taught to never truly understand what the present is about and why something works in governments and what does not work and why you are fighting an indoctrination or why you are fighting an ideology? Then you wind up taking the same toxic road that other human civilizations have taken and walked throughout human history.

But America is special. Ordained by God. Exceptional.

What is the USA if not a society made up of human beings? With an old document from the 18th century trying to distance itself from the errors of a Europe filled with Religious wars, monarchical systems and lack of basic rights.

But.....ignorance is not bliss.

And mistakes are made. The politically correct liberals telling people to watch what they say, and shush and this or that....and not really addressing bread and butter real issues in the rural parts of the USA and not respecting traditional American Christians and letting them vent their religion in ways that they see as their right? Has made this entire crisis happen too.

There is a true lack of understanding between what the urban liberals and intellectual class in the universities teach and the common working class and more conservative elements who love capitalism and mix it with Protestant beliefs.

You would think loving Jesus Christ for a true Believer would not be controversial. But it is. Because the Protestants in the USA are about worshipping the Golden Calf. Making money. Profit. Not wanting to accept Gay rights, Minority people becoming Presidents, and having to allow some culture war things to happen.

It is about change being HALTED forever.

Unfortunately, you can't stop change. It is endemic to living in the world. You can destroy everything that the nation has built in your quest to hate the enemy. That is what Civil War is all about.

Just do not expect to be the exception to the rule when other nations pass you by like a horse race and you wind up losing the race for power. Nothing stops because you failed to understand what was going on in the world. And failed to get an education about it.

Ignorance often concedes power and gives power to the worst people. And it also is the seed that brings that power down.
#15306114
Rancid wrote::eek: I've been on here too long..... :hmm:

I'd say your assessment of me is very good. Mostly accurate. I would add that I feel like I've shifted a bit more left economically over the years. I do still think a mixed/balanced system is the most sustainable. However, a key driver of my slight shift left economically is from the experience of working in corporate America. Also from reading a few books on corporate management (like the innovators solution and innovators dilemma), and my favorite book the dictators handbook. The funny thing is, those corporate strategy/management books that were recommended by my management at different companies over the years had a different effect on me. I certainly learned good ideas/tools for developing strategies and management techniques. However, those books also made me feel like businesses are just dumbshit hamster wheels, and it's fucking weird how some people basically make running on the hamster wheel their life's mission. It also helped me understand that a system that optimizes for profit is a system that does not optimize for broad human well being. The lie we have been feed is that if profit goes up, then everyone's happy (obviously not). I could go on, but i'll stop, need to do stuff.

As for @Istanbuller, the hilarity about his position is that in America, the very people he thinks are great/good/whatever, are the very people that would seem him as second class, no matter how much money he has. :lol:

To @JohnRawls, I wouldn't vote for Hailey if she magically became the candidate in 2024. I can't see myself voting for a Republican for a long time. The spinlessness they have displayed over the last 8 years or so is too egregious. That party is a threat to this nation even if Trump loses, I will still see them as a threat for the time being. They would have to cut out MAGA, grow a pair of balls, and become more reasonable, be willing to compromise some, and be willing to actually work for the American people. They haven't shown any of that, and it will take a long time, if ever for that to happen.

I'd much rather see a new center right party show up. The Republican party just needs to die, and all those shit Republican politicians need to lose their jobs or go to prison. I'm not saying I'm a fan of the Lincoln project, but if some sort of political party sprang from that. I might be willing to consider voting for that... I stress MIGHT, this is all hypothetical, so whatever....

If you are not familiar, the Lincoln project is a group of people that have completely gone against MAGA and Trump.

The Lincoln project is so hard against Trump, I wouldn't be surprised if you mistook them for a leftist group. However, they are not. It's a right wing group. They're not stupid or crazy like MAGA.

If I myself were to ever cast my vote for a Republican , however unlikely the possibility , it would have to be a more so moderate liberal Republican , and even then , almost certainly only for no more than statewide office . In regards to Red Tory , one-nation conservatism , I do basically support the idea of the Big Society over even the Great Society , as I tend to be generally critical of the bureaucratic collectivism of the welfare state . If I weren't already staunchly committed to my present-day ideology of Centrist Marxism , I think that I would have likely settled upon a political position of radical centrist Communitarianism . I fundamentally feel that we as a people must address the root cause of social ills , rather than simply alleviating the symptoms .
#15306116
Pewty wrote:One of the things I noticed very early on about Trump supporters is how they deflect from a discussion about the behaviour and general suitability of their leader, to the behaviour of the person criticizing him.

I am not a Trump supporter and not even an American. So you are wrong again.

Hate is too strong a word though. Contempt, disgust, revulsion, etc. are much better.

Hate is the right word defines feeling of people like you toward Trump. Your hate leads to obsession.

First would be the revenge. Trump has already indicated he will have no qualms about using his term to get back at those he thinks have wronged him in some way, including those who sought to make him pay for his criminal activity. Apparently he would also pardon violent criminals who tried to keep him in power after he lost the 2020 election.

If you are so afraid of him taking revenge, why did you provoke him in the first place? He can take revenge within the framework of laws. He can fire all Democrats in government posts, for instance.

Then there would be the results of his obeisance to the evangelical right. Remember, the top Republican in the country right now thinks Noah's Ark was real, and there were dinosaurs on it. Trump has to keep that type of wingnut happy. The results as they affect women's rights, gay rights, trans rights, education, etc. would be appalling. Trump is an atheist, but he has no problem fooling religious people if it benefits him.

Do you think it is wrong to be religious? You don't have to be part of a group to support rights of that group. You can support human rights for everyone else regardless of their sex, skin, religion and nationality. What about you show some respetct toward religious people?

I also believe in Noah's ark. It is in Quran too. I don't get your point here.

Rights of women and gay people have never been under threat in America. But as far as I observe, gay people hates religious people.

Then there's NATO. Putin's plan for Trump was an eight year plan, and not withstanding the shock Trump gave him by losing in 2020, another term could see NATO seriously depleted. Unless the Dem's Hail Mary legislation attempting to stop a President unilaterally leaving NATO holds. No guarantees there.

NATO's integrity was always problematic. There is nothing related to Trump about it.
His environmental record in his first term was atrocious. No reason to imagine he won't continue down such a path. There could be some jobs sweeping forest floors but they probably won't be well paying.

I believe that governments should not have any view on environmental issues. If there is a problem, then individuals, charities, independent groups and companies should deal with it. No taxpayer money should be spent on faux problems.
I'm sure a more detailed look into the issue would show a lot more, and a lot worse, but if you believe America should be a Theocracy, gay people are an abomination in the eyes of the Lord, women are only good for incubating embryos, Illegal immigrants are poisoning the blood of the country, and environmental regulations purportedly choking the economy is worse than industry actually choking the people. then I suppose he would be good for your America.

I'm still hoping sanity prevails, though.
Republican Party's position on social issues and economy are freedom oriented and pretty nice. They only have some backward views on freedom of movement of people.

If you fear theocracy or autocracy, you should be careful more about Democratic Party. It is very scary that today's Democratic Party does not share anything related your country's founding libertarian views. Trump admin and Democrat Party's actions and policies seem un-American and very controversial.
#15306117
Deutschmania wrote:Your critique aptly describes the prosperity gospel , as a general whole . However , there has also been a social gospel , within Protestant Christianity . That is the thing about Christian democracy , its parties can range from on the farthest left the Christian Democratic Party of Uruguay , and on the farthest right the Christian Democratic Party of Argentina . Such is the range of opinion found within political Christianity , there is both a Christian left as well as a Christian right , each claiming to be basing their policies upon biblical principles . The crucial question is how to translate precepts that were first laid out in the iron age to material conditions in the industrial age .


This exists within the Roman Catholic religion. Spain is about the most Roman Catholic nation in the world. Lol.

It is.

It had and still has a very strong far Right. And a very strong Far Left. Both Roman Catholic.

But with time and history it has had to divorce politics and religion. It still has a monarchy. But one without political power really to determine public policy.

A horrific Civil War in Spain happened.

The two sides clashed with tremendous violence.

Protestants though have at the core that love of showing God their worthiness through that part of Evangelical stuff. The Rapture. Pray to God for prosperity. God is going to make you wealthy.

Wealth if you examine the New Testament has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. He was not walking around with Gucci sandals, and Versace clothing. Neither was he a very wealthy leader of a new Religious sect within the Jewish Rabbinical tradition.

He is often associated as a humble carpenter or a fisherman or doing some kind of less than prestigious profession or work.

Then why insist on the prosperity gospel?

If you unpack religion it is about faith.

I liked these speeches in that movie based on Carl Sagan's fictional book Contact.

Here it is:







Pursuit of Truth? One covenant is about Faith. And another is about science and what is truth. Material reality in the laws ruling the world.

One has to do with an emotional state of being. Two different covenants.

Government has to do the path of science and evidence and logic. A strict logic.

Religion if taken to extremes and letting illogical stuff take over? It becomes mythology. You have that as a truth. And not the actual purpose of religion. A great Religion disciplines the mind, the body and the heart. And it also is supposed to remove violence, mundane power and subjugate the EGO inside of the human being to a Greater Power. Remove the ego. Remove the hate. Remove the pride and every sinful thing that you have that is keeping you from being a servant.

That entire thing about bowing down and getting on your knees in front of Cross, or on a prayer rug in Mecca, or in a Temple in Jerusalem, and doing all that religious ceremony is about communicating, I am nothing in front of the Creator. I serve the Creator. Nothing is more important than making sure I love, serve and become only good thoughts, good deeds and good heart....in service to ALL of HUMANKIND.

If they torture me, kill me, force me and tempt me from that hard path. I will not waver. I will serve God. God is love. My spirit is nothing but a force to serve GOOD.

But the Religious instead become about hatreds, greed, fear and ignorance. The angry Mobs kill the best people. They never vote for the best candidates for office. And they allow the Anti Christ to take over their minds. The Ego becomes overtaken.

Like this scene from a Movie. Jesus.



if again you study the Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell you have to understand what the meaning of religious texts are about.

Comparative Religions is one of the most interesting aspects of studying cultural anthropology and sociology.

You start seeing patterns in Religious disciplines.

The danger is that it opens up the irrational in human culture and human life.

Irrationality has tremendous creative power and it has tremendous destructive power.

It has both. You have to choose which one you want to pursue.
#15306149
Tainari88 wrote:
Protestants though have at the core that love of showing God their worthiness through that part of Evangelical stuff. The Rapture. Pray to God for prosperity. God is going to make you wealthy.


I actually remember , from the days of my childhood as an evangelical , this verse that was cited to illustrate that we cannot earn God's favor . That Salvation is a free gift , and that there is nothing that we can do to merit a state of grace . In addition I will add three additional passages , regarding how God views the wealthy , as a whole . Ironically , we evangelical Protestants were brought up to believe that it's the Roman Catholics whom teach that salvation is something to be earned by works , especially as it pertains to the purchasing of indulgences . Even if it's not necessarily entirely true , or even fair , those evangelicals , who hold to the doctrine of "sola fide" , are under the impression that Catholics adhere to a sort of works based justification .

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+2%3A8-9&version=DRA ,

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+19%3A23-24&version=NCB ,

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6%3A24&version=NCB ,

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+5+%3A1-6+&version=NCB


#15306159
Istanbuller wrote:I am not a Trump supporter and not even an American. So you are wrong again.


No I'm not. What I said was correct. It's just that you do that as well.


Hate is the right word defines feeling of people like you toward Trump. Your hate leads to obsession.


Hey, now you're wrong. Again.


If you are so afraid of him taking revenge, why did you provoke him in the first place? He can take revenge within the framework of laws. He can fire all Democrats in government posts, for instance.


Nonsensical argument, but at least you seem to acknowledge I was right about that.


Do you think it is wrong to be religious? You don't have to be part of a group to support rights of that group. You can support human rights for everyone else regardless of their sex, skin, religion and nationality. What about you show some respetct toward religious people?

I also believe in Noah's ark. It is in Quran too. I don't get your point here.

Rights of women and gay people have never been under threat in America. But as far as I observe, gay people hates religious people.


I think religions are crap, but I have no objection to people believing whatever they want as long as they keep it to themselves, and don't try and force anyone else to live according to their beliefs.

Noah's Ark is a myth, same as all religious stories. I'm assuming you don't think there were dinosaurs on it?

Your last sentence there is just silly.


NATO's integrity was always problematic. There is nothing related to Trump about it.


Not yet. We were talking about the future, remember?


I believe that governments should not have any view on environmental issues. If there is a problem, then individuals, charities, independent groups and companies should deal with it. No taxpayer money should be spent on faux problems.


I don't know what to say to that. What absolute bollocks. Complete and utter rubbish. Where the hell do you get that from?


Republican Party's position on social issues and economy are freedom oriented and pretty nice. They only have some backward views on freedom of movement of people.


Yeah, I don't agree with that, either.


If you fear theocracy or autocracy, you should be careful more about Democratic Party. It is very scary that today's Democratic Party does not share anything related your country's founding libertarian views. Trump admin and Democrat Party's actions and policies seem un-American and very controversial.


It's not my country. I just like arguing about it, because I have such respect for America and Americans in general. It's a shame to see what happens to them when they fall victim to a con man like Trump.
#15306161
Deutschmania wrote:I actually remember , from the days of my childhood as an evangelical , this verse that was cited to illustrate that we cannot earn God's favor . That Salvation is a free gift , and that there is nothing that we can do to merit a state of grace . In addition I will add three additional passages , regarding how God views the wealthy , as a whole . Ironically , we evangelical Protestants were brought up to believe that it's the Roman Catholics whom teach that salvation is something to be earned by works , especially as it pertains to the purchasing of indulgences . Even if it's not necessarily entirely true , or even fair , those evangelicals , who hold to the doctrine of "sola fide" , are under the impression that Catholics adhere to a sort of works based justification .

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+2%3A8-9&version=DRA ,

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+19%3A23-24&version=NCB ,

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6%3A24&version=NCB ,

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+5+%3A1-6+&version=NCB



Indeed, which implies that the Prosperity Gospel version of Protestantism is actually a betrayal of the very basis of the Protestant revolt against the corruption and materialism of the Roman Catholic Church of the time - the Prosperity Gospel isn’t just corrupt and materialistic, it actually asserts that this corruption and materialism is Christianity. This is far worse than merely the sale of indulgences or the like. Oscar Wilde once said that hypocrisy is the tribute which vice pays to virtue. At least the Roman Catholic Church paid tribute to Christian virtue by being hypocritical. The Prosperity Gospel doesn’t even do that. Can you imagine what someone like Luther or Calvin would have thought of all this? :eh:
#15306163
Tainari88 wrote:Donald Trump taps into their subconscious minds. It is about security. Safety. No change to the status quo in their own minds.


Meanwhile Trump does not know much about the Bible.

He is Presbyterian. Lol. Hee hee. Such a hypocrite.


Myth Pewty is about believing in something supernatural and preordained. Myth. God and Politics. Theocracy.

People should learn why mixing religion with politics is not good. There are so many examples of toxic wars about fine points in religion. How many Angels dance on a top of a pin. It is about MYTH. Their MYTH has to be true.

When reality plays itself out if they do become victorious? The ashes of the nation they were trying to protect will be the reality check. Reality hits the Myth again.

Another human civilization abandoned and taken over by plants and the jungle because the humans had to leave it behind. The MYTH was no longer believed. Humans have to keep getting hit in the face with the reality of what the differences are between myths and faith, and politics and government. Myth is about emotionally based needs in the human psyche, and government is about or should be set up to be strictly logical and science based. They do not combine or mix because if they are allowed to do so Pewty? You get the days of the religious wars. From Spain's history los Moros y los Cristianos. Moors vs. Christians. A war based on Religion that lasted 800 years.

If you fail to understand the past and human behavior in the past and the consequences of lessons done in the past and you repeat the same mistakes because you are taught to never truly understand what the present is about and why something works in governments and what does not work and why you are fighting an indoctrination or why you are fighting an ideology? Then you wind up taking the same toxic road that other human civilizations have taken and walked throughout human history.

But America is special. Ordained by God. Exceptional.

What is the USA if not a society made up of human beings? With an old document from the 18th century trying to distance itself from the errors of a Europe filled with Religious wars, monarchical systems and lack of basic rights.

But.....ignorance is not bliss.

And mistakes are made. The politically correct liberals telling people to watch what they say, and shush and this or that....and not really addressing bread and butter real issues in the rural parts of the USA and not respecting traditional American Christians and letting them vent their religion in ways that they see as their right? Has made this entire crisis happen too.

There is a true lack of understanding between what the urban liberals and intellectual class in the universities teach and the common working class and more conservative elements who love capitalism and mix it with Protestant beliefs.

You would think loving Jesus Christ for a true Believer would not be controversial. But it is. Because the Protestants in the USA are about worshipping the Golden Calf. Making money. Profit. Not wanting to accept Gay rights, Minority people becoming Presidents, and having to allow some culture war things to happen.

It is about change being HALTED forever.

Unfortunately, you can't stop change. It is endemic to living in the world. You can destroy everything that the nation has built in your quest to hate the enemy. That is what Civil War is all about.

Just do not expect to be the exception to the rule when other nations pass you by like a horse race and you wind up losing the race for power. Nothing stops because you failed to understand what was going on in the world. And failed to get an education about it.

Ignorance often concedes power and gives power to the worst people. And it also is the seed that brings that power down.


It never ceases to amaze me how many are fooled by supposedly religious people. I remember watching in amazement, not long after I came to Canada, those Sunday morning preachers conning people into sending them their hard earned cash. They became millionaires by getting idiots to part with their money and for what? To be closer to their God? Those preachers were further from their God than any Satan they could conjure up.

It's the same with Trump. He holds a Bible, and looks serious, and pretends to believe in whatever they want him to believe in, and they follow him, even though, if their God really did exist, he would be confined to Hell without a second's thought come Judgement Day, and them along with him, for being so gullible.

All religion is myth, but it's astonishing how many supposedly religious people don't even subscribe to the myth, all the while pretending they are devout. No-one who loves Jesus Christ can ever hate, or hurt, or deny anyone. Jesus sure didn't. One can't be both rich, and a Christian, while there are poor people.

There is no doubt that liberals have helped create the divide currently expanding in the US at the moment, (and elsewhere, of course) and for some, their dogma is just as destructive, but their motive, and intent, are different.
#15306182
Pewty wrote:...Trump has already indicated he will have no qualms about using his term to get back at those he thinks have wronged him in some way, including those who sought to make him pay for his criminal activity. Apparently he would also pardon violent criminals who tried to keep him in power after he lost the 2020 election.

...

Yes, so this Great White Hope candidate won't build any highspeed rail, or get American cities up to speed with mass transit. But he WILL get even with all those rascally rascals who shot his Pa.

Image


Imagine if the USA voted for "economic development and international harmony" rather than voting for the well-marketed revenge fantasies that play two mafia-connected political franchises against one another.

Imagine not collapsing. Wouldn't that be swell.
#15306242
This whole you're just obsessed "argument" is weird and stupid.

What exactly is that argument supposed prove/show/demonstrate? How does that absolved Trump and his supporters?

It's some sort of backwards "look the other way, so I can pick your pocket" kind of thing. Doesn't make sense.
#15306264
Pewty wrote:No I'm not. What I said was correct. It's just that you do that as well.

Hey, now you're wrong. Again.

Nonsensical argument, but at least you seem to acknowledge I was right about that.

I think religions are crap, but I have no objection to people believing whatever they want as long as they keep it to themselves, and don't try and force anyone else to live according to their beliefs.

Noah's Ark is a myth, same as all religious stories. I'm assuming you don't think there were dinosaurs on it?

Your last sentence there is just silly.


Not yet. We were talking about the future, remember?

I don't know what to say to that. What absolute bollocks. Complete and utter rubbish. Where the hell do you get that from?

Yeah, I don't agree with that, either.

It's not my country. I just like arguing about it, because I have such respect for America and Americans in general. It's a shame to see what happens to them when they fall victim to a con man like Trump.

You are talking too much about "I dislike religion because it is bad" but you don't explain me why it bad.

Rancid wrote:This whole you're just obsessed "argument" is weird and stupid.

What exactly is that argument supposed prove/show/demonstrate? How does that absolved Trump and his supporters?

It's some sort of backwards "look the other way, so I can pick your pocket" kind of thing. Doesn't make sense.

Democrats' obsession of Trump is weird and stupid.

Trump is a former Democrat and his positions on social and economic issues are almost the same with Democrat squad today. He is not any close to conservatives. He is just one of you.

So what is this all fuss about Trump?
#15306267
Pewty wrote:GBT was reading our posts...


I dont mind comics but next time please post something thats actually funny.

For anyone.
#15306268
Negotiator wrote:I dont mind comics but next time please post something thats actually funny.

For anyone.

I think it’s supposed to be ‘wryly ironic’. Or something. I dunno. :|
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