Russia-Ukraine War 2022 - Page 804 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15306139
skinster wrote:Damn. :lol:


For the first time since the start of the war, the skies over eastern part of Ukraine is fully clear of Russian planes. I think those 15 lost SU-34s, SU-35s and A-50 in 2 weeks sent the point across. So Ukraine is still loosing or what?

Yeah Ukraine counter offensive didn't lead anywhere. Doesn't mean that Russia is going anywhere either for now.
#15306158
No one is talking about Israel's "Stepping on egg shells" position with Russia changing? Israel will now provide (defensive) military aid to Ukraine. Basically because Russia is courting Hamas and Houthis. The way they politically spun it was "we know how it feels to be attacked... blah blah blah". As usual, nations do not have friends. They only have interests.
#15306172
JohnRawls wrote:For the first time since the start of the war, the skies over eastern part of Ukraine is fully clear of Russian planes.


Completely wrong.



Russia didnt dare using their airforce much until quite recently, for the simple reason that Ukraine still had their soviet time air defense.

That was, as we now know in hindsight, the reason why Russia attacked the energy system of Ukraine again and again around the winter 2022/23, forcing Ukraine to again and again use the resource that couldnt be replenished.

So yes, for the longest time the skies HAVE been clear of russian airplanes, and for that matter helicopters. That only changed quite recently.



And what Ukraine is currently doing is mass destroying their western made air defense by positioning them close to the front line, where they quickly are found out and destroyed.

And yes the ukrainians may get one or another headline out of this, but they also get their western made air defense systems destroyed quite quickly. And theres no replacement. These items are extremely expensive, the people who are running them are hard to come by, i.e. needed a very long training, and production of them is also not fast.



Its another example of Ukraine winning the war in western headlines, why destroying their hard to come by military resources for really little actual gain, and certainly not for changing anything about how the war is going.
#15306175
So the Liberal thinks that Russians are sub human Asiatic orcs.

Now I know, I know some of you might be saying, aren't the orcs half elves, rather than half humans. :lol: Yes well you've got to remember a lot of these Liberals are not the sharpest tools in the shed. There's also the issue that a number of historians and archeologists have questioned whether elves actually ever existed. I'm not really up to date with the latest research, but I believe there are some historical revisionists who even go as far as denying the existence of orcs as well. But anyway lets leave these orc and elf deniers aside. The point is that the liberal considers Russians to be Asiatic sub humans while he considers the Ukrainians to be part of the uber mensch.

This is why the Liberal thinks that even if Russia conquered the whole of the Ukraine, the Ukrainians would fight on with sticks and stones, where as if Ukraine conquered (sorry liberated) Crimea, Russians would meekly accept the new status quo and wouldn't carry out any acts of sabotage.

Now some would say, what about the American citizens of Kiska and Attu, their resistance to occupation wasn't exactly heroic. Well the Liberal would say that a lot of those citizens,inhabitants were Asiatic sub humans and in fact that is exactly why Franklin Delano Roosevelt, wise man that he was, had to put all the Japanese Asiatic subhumans into concentration camps, while he would never have dreamed of putting German and Italian Americans into concentration camps.

Hang on that doesn't quite add up, because I thought Asiatic sub humans were meant to meekly accept the government. Um :eek: . There's obviously some subtlety to Liberal thought that I'm not understanding. I'm going to have to study this matter further.
#15306189
About increasing NATO's military spending, Negotiator wrote:Trump only said that because he wants these countries to spent money on US military products. Thats it. Thats all...


Yes, a warTM is a good way to market military products... in much the same way that a pandemicTM is a good way to market drugs.

And since we live in a civilization built on lies and greed (and genocide), we should expect more of these wonderful marketing tools no matter which mafia-connected greaseball is elected "president."
#15306199
Negotiator wrote:Completely wrong.



Russia didnt dare using their airforce much until quite recently, for the simple reason that Ukraine still had their soviet time air defense.

That was, as we now know in hindsight, the reason why Russia attacked the energy system of Ukraine again and again around the winter 2022/23, forcing Ukraine to again and again use the resource that couldnt be replenished.

So yes, for the longest time the skies HAVE been clear of russian airplanes, and for that matter helicopters. That only changed quite recently.



And what Ukraine is currently doing is mass destroying their western made air defense by positioning them close to the front line, where they quickly are found out and destroyed.

And yes the ukrainians may get one or another headline out of this, but they also get their western made air defense systems destroyed quite quickly. And theres no replacement. These items are extremely expensive, the people who are running them are hard to come by, i.e. needed a very long training, and production of them is also not fast.



Its another example of Ukraine winning the war in western headlines, why destroying their hard to come by military resources for really little actual gain, and certainly not for changing anything about how the war is going.


No, right now everything besides the strategic aviation is grounded. The A-50s, the SU-35s, SU-30s, SU-35s etc. The only thing that still flies are Tupolev and Mig 31 for very long range missile lobbing if there are still any missiles left in numbers. Right now Russia should be re-stockpiling due to slow production though.

The A-50s is very good, now Russia has lost their main air and ground surveillance capability. Those upgraded S-200 missiles integrated in to Western Radar systems along with IR upgrade is doing wonders. 200km reach with good accuracy. Not possible to dodge it anymore by just removing the radar track.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15306236
JohnRawls wrote:
No, right now everything besides the strategic aviation is grounded. The A-50s, the SU-35s, SU-30s, SU-35s etc. The only thing that still flies are Tupolev and Mig 31 for very long range missile lobbing if there are still any missiles left in numbers. Right now Russia should be re-stockpiling due to slow production though.

The A-50s is very good, now Russia has lost their main air and ground surveillance capability. Those upgraded S-200 missiles integrated in to Western Radar systems along with IR upgrade is doing wonders. 200km reach with good accuracy. Not possible to dodge it anymore by just removing the radar track.


Apparently the downing of these planes recently has something to do with repositioning/reallocation of some missile batteries/radars.

How do you know that skies over eastern Ukraine are clear?
#15306254
Rancid wrote:Apparently the downing of these planes recently has something to do with repositioning/reallocation of some missile batteries/radars.

How do you know that skies over eastern Ukraine are clear?


Because NATO flies AWACS and even Ukrainian Radars can see all of occupied Ukraine territory and beyond. The question has always been interception and not really seeing/not seeing them. Hence why the 200km old Soviet S-200 modified missiles are good.(Guided modules are basically wings to a bomb that glides to target so it needs height) Not that the Russians fly low since they need that height for FAB throwing with guided modules. There is also the question of availability and ability to put them near the front line.

Patriot and other Western systems are better almost everything wise besides perhaps range of rockets and their cost. Its really dangerous to put Patriot/IRIS-T near the front line due to how few there are and how valuable are they in general. Those are the radars being used anyways. If somebody gave Ukraine 10-12 more batteries of Patriot or IRIS-T then it would be a different case obviously but it is what it is.
User avatar
By litwin
#15306255
JohnRawls wrote:No, right now everything besides the strategic aviation is grounded. The A-50s, the SU-35s, SU-30s, SU-35s etc. The only thing that still flies are Tupolev and Mig 31 for very long range missile lobbing if there are still any missiles left in numbers. Right now Russia should be re-stockpiling due to slow production though.

The A-50s is very good, now Russia has lost their main air and ground surveillance capability. Those upgraded S-200 missiles integrated in to Western Radar systems along with IR upgrade is doing wonders. 200km reach with good accuracy. Not possible to dodge it anymore by just removing the radar track.

you are the king man 8)

ps

8)
User avatar
By Rancid
#15306257
JohnRawls wrote:
Because NATO flies AWACS and even Ukrainian Radars can see all of occupied Ukraine territory and beyond. The question has always been interception and not really seeing/not seeing them. Hence why the 200km old Soviet S-200 modified missiles are good.(Guided modules are basically wings to a bomb that glides to target so it needs height) Not that the Russians fly low since they need that height for FAB throwing with guided modules. There is also the question of availability and ability to put them near the front line.

Patriot and other Western systems are better almost everything wise besides perhaps range of rockets and their cost. Its really dangerous to put Patriot/IRIS-T near the front line due to how few there are and how valuable are they in general. Those are the radars being used anyways. If somebody gave Ukraine 10-12 more batteries of Patriot or IRIS-T then it would be a different case obviously but it is what it is.


If the skies are clear, then what does that mean though?
#15306258
Rancid wrote:If the skies are clear, then what does that mean though?


They can't provide close air support and throw 500kg bombs on top of defensive positions anymore. Also they do not see troop movements and see relatively less of Ukranian airspace because A-50 are grounded.

The reason why we fly radars on planes is because curvature of earth makes Radar operations problematic if it doesn't fly high.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15306282
JohnRawls wrote:
They can't provide close air support and throw 500kg bombs on top of defensive positions anymore. Also they do not see troop movements and see relatively less of Ukranian airspace because A-50 are grounded.

The reason why we fly radars on planes is because curvature of earth makes Radar operations problematic if it doesn't fly high.


So what I'm hearing is, Ukrainian casualties rates should go down.
#15306302
So there's been more back and forth on the internet about human waves and the so called meat waves. No one who wishes to maintain a shred of credibility should be talking about human waves in relation to this war. Here are some water waves,



Yeah its scary just watching it. So the idea of the human wave is something analogous to the water wave and perhaps takes 2 forms. Here at the Grunwick picket line we definitively see phenomena that could not unreasonably be described as human waves.



So historians have struggled to understand how ancient battles could go for so long, sometimes for days with such low casualties. The idea that they were something akin to these picket line struggles with both sides protected behind shield walls used to be popular. But for various reasons that theory has fallen out of favour, But regardless that form of battle went out long ago if it ever existed in the first place, so by human wave something like this is imagined.



This did not happen in World War 2. Its not happening in this war. And we should be extremely sceptical of things that look a bit like this that purport to be actual battle footage from WW1. This idea that depth of attackers can overwhelm concentrated automatic fire by the people at the front absorbing the bullets and protecting the people behind for long enough to overwhelm the defenders just doesn't happen. Infantry attackers overwhelm defenders in a sudden shock assault sure. But that happens because of a combination of surprise, smoke, suppression and attacking from directions that the defender doesn't have good lines of fire. It does not happen because the front ranks are protecting the back ranks by using their bodies to absorb the bullets. When ever some so called expert starts talking about human waves whether by Russians or Ukrainians they're talking nonsense.

As for the term "meat wave". this is just a silly term, that no credible analyst should use. People are trying to make up pseudo technical post rationalisations for silly propaganda terms.
#15306336
skinster wrote:https://twitter.com/Kanthan2030/status/1760919614228492557

https://x.com/KimDotcom/status/1763637250271871377?s=20


I like how you are an imperialist now even knowing how the vote will go if it happens :lol:

Its like Gaza conducting a referendum now asking if the land should be given to Israel :lol:
#15306342
Rancid wrote:So what I'm hearing is, Ukrainian casualties rates should go down.


Haha!! More Moscow potemkin crap relegated to the past. I'll never forget the wooden T-95. Next: SU-57. :lol:

Next they will save money and go for a made in ussr T-54 :lol:

Sanctions are working.

Moscow tech is not.

putin abandons Armata (which never exited ) tank.


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