Russia-Ukraine War 2022 - Page 837 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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User avatar
By litwin
#15310364
ingliz wrote:Well, he's not losing.

Conversely, Ukraine can't get enough volunteers to volunteer.

Draft evasion is rampant.

Press gangs too.

Zelenskiy has signed a law allowing the disabled to be conscripted.

And another lowering the age for compulsory military service.

and

They're running out of ammunition.


:)



Note how the audience (appear to be the young) applauded :knife: . Muscovy is a fascist - STALINIST , ORIENTAL EMPIRE WHICH JUST WANT TO EXTERMINATE US , AMERICANS AND EUROPEANS


Moscow official : Ukrainians cannot be re-educated, so they all need to be KILLED without pity.


User avatar
By litwin
#15310397
Finland's commitment to supporting Ukraine's defense against aggression is commendable. While the US navigates through information warfare, it's crucial to prioritize solidarity and decisive action in standing against pootin's imperialistic aggression.





#15310418
Jeffrey Sachs wrote:The war began 10 years ago when Victoria Nuland not only passed out cookies on Maidan but engaged in insurrection to violently overthrow a government in Ukraine—pretty stupid, pretty stupid to have a regime change operation in a country with a 2,000-kilometer border with Russia.

That's our American foreign policy.

That's when this war started.

This war didn't start in February 2022; it started in February 2014. It started with Nuland, Blinken, Sullivan, and Biden, who was a key person in that whole thing.

Then, the fighting went on for 10 years, and in December 2021, Putin said, 'Look, stop the NATO enlargement. We can avoid an escalation.'

I talked to the White House at that point. 'No, we don't stop anything.' They just thought they had all the cards. 'We're going to cut them out of the SWIFT banking system. We're going to bring the economy to its knees.'

A bunch of nonsense by ignorant people.

So, Putin escalated.

He didn't start the war; he escalated the war.

And within basically a week, Zelensky said, 'Okay, okay, okay, we can be neutral,' and the Turks mediated negotiations.

Then, though, the US government wants to hide all these facts, which are sitting out there for those who know where to find them. The US intervened and told the Ukrainians, 'You keep fighting.'

And we have our senators who say, 'This is the best money we've ever spent—because it's Ukrainians dying, not Americans. They're weakening Russia.'

Well, they are not weakening Russia, but they are killing Ukrainians.

So, this is not responding to Putin's invasion.

The war started 10 years ago, and we kept refusing every offramp until this day.

Robbie, you know, you hear Putin say, and if you listen every day, 'We're open to negotiations.' Then, these fools in the US government say, 'There's no one to negotiate with. They don't want to negotiate.' And then President Putin says, 'Oh, we're open to negotiations.' 'Oh, there's no one to negotiate with,' is what we hear from the US side.

This is just narrative.

It's destroyed Ukraine, and they just rip up money like there's no tomorrow.

So, another $61 billion, and now I hear from you that the latest plan is to take the illegally confiscated assets of Russia because there's no legal basis to do this and use that.

That'll be really great for the international financial system, I'll tell you, because these are people who don't think ahead one day.

They just improvise day by day.

And then they'll find out, 'Oh, things don't work out so well for the US dollar, for the US as the reserve currency, for the US's place in the world,' because these people are acting like clowns, frankly.

Day by day, not thinking ahead, doubling down on lost gambles, and everything to tell a story so that they can get to the elections in the way they see fit.




wat0n wrote:1500 km away from the border IIRC.


Rancid wrote:Yes, Tartarstan


I don't see any reports about this except on some Slava Ukraini twitter pages. Are there any news reports on it? Not that hitting a factory = Ukraine - or "country 404" as Pepe Escobar amusingly calls it - has won the war now. Because it's obviously done..

noemon wrote:Both of you are projecting. You are the only people in this thread that treat this war as a fight between Captain America and Hitler's reincarnation.


Indeed. He couldn't even answer your questions. What a coward..

Also, @noemon, is it possible that you can get Spammy McSpamstein in this thread to cease with multiple posting? I thought there are rules against double-posting.
By Rich
#15310419
skinster wrote:Also, @noemon, is it possible that you can get Spammy McSpamstein in this thread to cease with multiple posting? I thought there are rules against double-posting.

:lol: I have to say I do remember a time, when you were the forum's Twitter Queen. As well as them taking up screen space there's the issue that they can't be directly quoted.
#15310423


Rich wrote::lol: I have to say I do remember a time, when you were the forum's Twitter Queen. As well as them taking up screen space there's the issue that they can't be directly quoted.


Right, but I didn't double-post and there were no rules against posting news from Twitter. Also, you can quote tweets.
#15310480
Quoting Jeffrey Sachs, skinster wrote:
...The war began 10 years ago when Victoria Nuland not only passed out cookies on Maidan but engaged in insurrection to violently overthrow a government in Ukraine—pretty stupid, pretty stupid to have a regime change operation in a country with a 2,000-kilometer border with Russia.

That's our American foreign policy.

That's when this war started.

This war didn't start in February 2022; it started in February 2014. It started with Nuland, Blinken, Sullivan, and Biden, who was a key person in that whole thing.

Then, the fighting went on for 10 years, and in December 2021, Putin said, 'Look, stop the NATO enlargement. We can avoid an escalation.'

I talked to the White House at that point. 'No, we don't stop anything.' They just thought they had all the cards. 'We're going to cut them out of the SWIFT banking system. We're going to bring the economy to its knees.'...


It's interesting to read "the real story about how the violence in Ukraine started" in the middle of hundreds of lies from litwin. But litwin is only imitating war-profiteer commercial media when he posts non-stop Russia-hate spam with no regard for its response from other posters.

Likewise, mainstream media hits its public over the head with a choreographed family of lies every day with no regard for how this information is being received.
#15310486
QatzelOk wrote:It's interesting to read "the real story about how the violence in Ukraine started" in the middle of hundreds of lies from litwin. But litwin is only imitating war-profiteer commercial media when he posts non-stop Russia-hate spam with no regard for its response from other posters.

Likewise, mainstream media hits its public over the head with a choreographed family of lies every day with no regard for how this information is being received.


Yes, the real story about how violence in Ukraine began is very well documented and has been shared in this thread numerous times but people here seem to prefer to live in a fantasy world about this war. They fell for all the lies; Russia was bored and decided to make war because Putin is Hitler 2.0 despite opting for diplomacy and peace agreements numerous times before understanding that couldn't work; the war would be quick and easy; the U.S. would always be 100% behind Ukraine; Russia would lose and its economy would be destroyed yada yada yada.

Oddly they give little to no updates about how they're winning on this war. They were so mouthy in the first few months of the escalation of the war in early 2022 when they believe the war began like complete ahistorical dopes and still act like they are not on the side of fascists who sport swastikas and all other kinds of fascist symbols. Now they are like teeny mouses. :D

Litwin is nuts and likely a NAFO troll. I don't think he realises that he is very likely doing his mission to sell this war more harm than good, since he mainly just spam and shitposts. But, that's fine with me.

Jeffrey Sachs is good on some issues. He's pretty much an inside-the-U.S.-government type and could be on some intel payroll. The idea is he basically speaks publicly for those working in the U.S. government who are ignored with regards to foreign policy, such as this war. He was good on the war on Syria too, sharing much about how the U.S. spent over 100 billion and aligned with salafis/fascists in an attempt to bring the Assad government down. Thankfully that failed. As it seems like this might war will too. And as it seems like the U.S. aircraft carrier in West Asia, Israel, might fall too, soon..

Here's more from Sachs from today:
#15310491
Mouthing the words to the lies this thread seems to be operating on, skinster wrote:
... Russia was bored and decided to make war because Putin is Hitler 2.0 despite opting for diplomacy and peace agreements numerous times before understanding that couldn't work; the war would be quick and easy; the U.S. would always be 100% behind Ukraine; Russia would lose and its economy would be destroyed yada yada yada. ...


Yes, and let's not forget the other wopper of a lie: After NATO broke its word and expanded right to Russia's bordering countries, it overthrew Ukraine's leader and this created a civil war in Ukraine with Covid-19 biowarfare memes in the background.

And yet we are told, by commercial forces, that: "Russia invaded Ukraine because it wants to rebuild an empire." Um... needed to defend itself against NATO-the-terrible?

NATO innocently expands, but Russia 'is creating an empire' by defending itself against the world's biggest international terror organization (NATO-ISIS-Israel).
User avatar
By Rugoz
#15310604
QatzelOk wrote:Yes, and let's not forget the other wopper of a lie: After NATO broke its word and expanded right to Russia's bordering countries, it overthrew Ukraine's leader and this created a civil war in Ukraine with Covid-19 biowarfare memes in the background.


That is indeed a whopper of a lie. :lol:
By Rich
#15310618


Nice to hear someone talking sense for a change. Russia is advancing, but very, very slowly. I'm inclined to believe the Ukraine cheer leaders that Russia is currently absorbing unsustainable losses in equipment. That means fear mongering about Russia pushing on into Poland German and France are utterly absurd. But it doesn't mean Ukraine can just wait for Russia to use up all its equipment stocks and the make its own greatest offensive. Russia can early defend its territory if it drops down to sustainable equipment loss levels. We just don't know if Putin wants peace now. Currently he can't offer a ceasefire, because if he does all the Liberals will say

"Nah, nah, nah, nah! Told you so! Told you so! Russia's a bunch of loser sub humans, we're going to get absolute and total victory."

No the first step to getting peace is to break the insane hubris of the Ukrainian leadership and their western liberal enablers.
#15310654
Rancid wrote:Yale course on Ukrainian history:


Mentioned this back in the very early days of the war. Worth a watch.


I liked his Greek & Jewish mention.

He says: "The Greeks are the longest continuous and oldest inhabitants of Ukraine, next are the Jews, so in regards to Ukrainian history we see the interplay between Greek historical narratives and Jewish narratives and we know that is solid real history".

He also says that Ukraine was in the past a contest between the Greek, Jewish and Muslim religions. He also talks a lot about the foundation of nations which is a very interesting topic and one in which I consider myself to be a kind of authority.

People have very little idea of what it is that actually makes a nation. His freudian slip let it out in the previous post when he said "bad history is just political memory". Political memory is precisely what defines a nation. A community built around the same political memory which ethnologists call the "national mythos".

Greeks and Jews today are considered by ethnologists to be the most well-defined examples of ethnic-nations precisely because they have a very solid political memory or national mythos. The Jews have Moses and King David while the Greeks have Homer, Alexander, Jesus, Ceasar, Justinian and so many powerful historical totems. One could say Greeks invented history so they can preseve their political memory and national myths.

Hence why I have no issue calling Cyprus a fake nation because it is indeed a totally fake nation. But why do I say that?

Because if it was not for Turkish and British Imperialism in Cyprus, the state of Cyprus would never exist. This is not just something that comes out of my behind, it is actual historical fact that no Cypriot person ever considered an independent country, they all fought and bled for unification with Greece by and large. Of course that does not mean that Cyprus has not developed a national mythos or that since the 60's defenders of independence and the Cypriot national mythos have not come to be. Of course they have as people adapt to new situations they create new national myths. Greece and Greek Cypriots had to swallow the bitter pill of "independence" as a compromise with Britain who wanted to maintain its sovereign bases in Cyprus and Turkey who wanted to instrumentalise the 15% Turkish minority of the island to federalise and break up the island. 15% minority of Turks in Cyprus want their own state, 90%+ of ethnic Russians in Crimea, Donbass want the same.

In Ukraine we see a distinct historical situation going on. We have 2 people largely resembling the parallel between Greeks and Greek-Cypriots, Russians and Ukrainians openly worship the same national heroes and openly agree that they do worship the same national heroes.

Americans do not worship Queen Victoria for example even though they do share the same national origins as the English and that is in fact the ONLY MAIN thing that actually makes them distinct from the English, the US Constitution(the biggest totem) logically follows right exactly by rejecting Queen Victoria as part of the national myth. Greeks and Greek Cypriots both worship King Constantine of Constantinople, the Marbled King, both believe God turned him into Marble and that in the second coming he will be de-Marbled and crush the Turks into oblivion. In reality he fell into battle as he was last seen charging against the enemy after having refused to abandon the City. But this potent national mythos defines "bad history=political memory=national identity".

Both Ukrainians and Russians worship Catherine the Great. This should give you a hint as what the Ukranians actually are, as they themselves admit via their own politico-historical memory. And there are several more historical facts that buttress the Russianess of Ukranians. Even Ukraine the state itself asks its people these basic questions: "Do you feel more Ukrainian or more Russian?", in its national elections the pro-Putin candidates more often than not consistently win, the entire country, not just the East.

Of course some people will say but there was a "Ukrainian poet who spoke of Ukraine, blah blah", sure there is always 1 or 2 or 3 or more people that try to capitalise on possibilities especially when politics allow, just like there are Cypriots who spoke up in favour of independence vs union with Greece and who developed a narrative to make that possible as that was the only available political option for the leadership of the island, but ask yourself without British, Turkish and international pressure would the Cypriots have ever created a country of their own? Absolutely not. Without Soviet, British and US meddling in Ukraine would Ukraine ever have existed? 100% not because there has never been a critical mass of people that did not feel Russian, or that they felt non-Russian enough to take up arms against Russia. This critical ingredient of fighting a war to claim your land titles, never actually happpened in Ukraine and now that it has happened, it's happened only due to third-parties interfering and not natively nor organically.

We can pretend either for PC purposes or because of narratives, but historical reality is quite inescapable.

Snyder of course who knows all of the above has to seriously do some massive mental acrobatics to prevent his own self from blurting out freudian slips.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15310656
noemon wrote:
I liked his Greek & Jewish mention.

He says: "The Greeks are the longest continuous and oldest inhabitants of Ukraine, next are the Jews, so in regards to Ukrainian history we see the interplay between Greek historical narratives and Jewish narratives and we know that is solid real history".

He also says that Ukraine was in the past a contest between the Greek, Jewish and Muslim religions. He also talks a lot about the foundation of nations which is a very interesting topic and one in which I consider myself to be a kind of authority.

People have very little idea of what it is that actually makes a nation. His freudian slip let it out in the previous post when he said "bad history is just political memory". Political memory is precisely what defines a nation. A community built around the same political memory which ethnologists call the "national mythos".

Greeks and Jews today are considered by ethnologists to be the most well-defined examples of ethnic-nations precisely because they have a very solid political memory or national mythos. The Jews have Moses and King David while the Greeks have Homer, Alexander, Jesus, Ceasar, Justinian and so many power historical totems.

Hence why I have no issue calling Cyprus a fake nation because it is indeed a totally fake nation. But why do I say that?

Because if it was not for Turkish and British Imperialism in Cyprus, the state of Cyprus would never exist. This is not just something that comes out of my behind, it is actual historical fact that no Cypriot person ever considered an independent country, they all fought and bled for unification with Greece by and large. Of course that does not mean that Cyprus has not developed a national mythos or that since the 60's defenders of independence and the Cypriot national mythos have not come to be. Of course they have as people adapt to new situations they create new national myths. Greece and Greek Cypriots had to swallow the bitter pill of "independence" as a compromise with Britain who wanted to maintain its sovereign bases in Cyprus and Turkey who wanted to instrumentalise the 15% Turkish minority of the island to federalise and break up the island. 15% minority of Turks in Cyprus want their own state, 90%+ of ethnic Russians in Crimea, Donbass want the same.

In Ukraine we see a distinct historical situation going on. We have 2 people largely resembling the parallel between Greeks and Greek-Cypriots, Russians and Ukrainians openly worship the national heroes and openly agree that they do worship the same national heroes.

Americans do not worship Queen Victoria for example even though they do share the same origins as the English. Greeks and Greek Cypriots both worship King Constantine of Constantinople, the Marbled King, both believe God turned him into Marble and that in the second coming he will be de-Marbled and crush the Turks into oblivion. In reality he fell into battle as he was last seen charging against the enemy after having refused to abandon the City. But this potent national mythos defines "bad history=political memory=national identity".

Both Ukrainians and Russians worship Catherine the Great. This should give you a hint as what the Ukrianians actually are, as they themselves admit via their own politico-historical memory. And there are several more historical facts that buttress the Russianess of Ukranians.


I don't know enough to agree or disagree. I will take it at face value and assume it is communicated in good faith and that it is at least mostly true if not completely true. The question that raises for me in the context of your post is, why are Ukrainians still fighting/resisting? Where is this will to resist coming from?
#15310659
noemon wrote:US and British assurances, promises and other promised land nonsense.


They resisted when we still weren't sure if sending helmets was okay or a red line and resisted in 2014 when we didn't assist them.
User avatar
By noemon
#15310661
Snyder then continues to say that Putin made a bad argument when he said that "Ukraine and Russia are one without external intereference".

Putin's argument however is historically solid and very easy to prove. One only has to look at Soviet policy and it's all there in Black & White. Putin of course does not even go there because it doesn't suit Russian national mythology to destroy the Soviets.

But there is in fact an entire academic department dealing with the Communist system to create new nations. The Communists founded tens probably hundreds of countries during their 50 years of existence.

They founded Bosnia, FYROM, Transistria, Belarus, Ukraine, Kazakshtan, Uzbekistan, and they had an actual system of going about doing it. A national system where they stitched together diverse populations from distinct provinces and a system of re-writing history to convince them they are now one and the same all the while the "Soviet Man" was hanging around in the background as the ultimate ideal.

This Soviet system is so convoluted, historically pathetic and so problematic that no serious academic considers any of these Soviet nations as "real". They are factually fake and we have the actual blueprints from their Soviet creators on how to make them look real while knowing they are totally fake.

Several academics in ethnology deal with the Soviet experiment as one of the worst social experiments in history. The Austrian Ulf Bruunbauer is one of them, an expertise, I have actually read 3 of his books. These books written many decades ago are a MUST-READ for anyone dealing with issues with nations founded by the Communists as the crazy is so large that the Communist national myths created for these purposes are still echoing in the present day. Fyrom people still believe they are the descendants of Alexander.

Snyder is of course totally aware of this and there in lies his problems, he tells you the theoretical truth of things but he does not give actual Ukranian data because then the conclusion will become too obvious even to his own class so he goes round and round the roundabout.

JohnRawls wrote:They resisted when we still weren't sure if sending helmets was okay or a red line and resisted in 2014 when we didn't assist them.


You see John is a true believer of Marbled Kings and cartoon narratives that have clearly been staged in the media.

Professional actor throws a tagline in the first day of the war and that proves something. :lol:
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