[Negotiator]

At this point really all one can say is "hopefully there will be no war".

Netanyahu is clearly desperate because their Gaza activities are a full blown catastrophe for Israel, especially because the whole world is now opposed to it and most people are calling it a genocide.

So now he wants to provoke a war with Iran. Which puts Iran in a bad spot, since they cannot not react, but they also dont want to play Netanyahus game and start a war.

Its now most likely that Netanyahu will now strike again. Hopefully in a way that Iran can ignore. Otherwise the escalation spiral may start spinning.

[E_GoBig]

Don't bet the farm.

Maybe, we produce most of our own oil, so we don't get hit as hard as countries that don't produce their own energy.

The Iranian attack didn't accomplish much. Prices here prob won't go up much.

"However fierce and painful the initial market reaction will be, the rally could prove to be short-lived unless supply from the region is materially disrupted."

Face it, the oil market is going to react badly.

Remember when the Russians invaded Ukraine about two years ago? Oil prices immediately went up to more than $100 a barrel, then it went to nearly $130 just couple of days after that. It stayed there for the next couple of months and gas prices eventually reached $5 a gallon before dropping to around $3.50 by year's end. The reason why oil prices shot up to more than $100 is because Russia is a major oil producer, and the US and Europe gave them sanctions therefore banning oil imports from that country.

Imagine paying $6/gallon because of the Iran attack on Israel? This is Biden's fault. He should have never banned oil drilling and he should have fired his energy secretary long ago when there was a big spike in gas prices. Also, the blame should also go to his defense secretary whose job is to increase wars and wreck the economy(although the president has the authority to declare war on another country).

So, we could end up in a worse recession because of one thing: skyrocketing gas prices as a result of the Iranian attack on Israel.

[SpecialOlympian]

It has been Israel's dream to get America to instigate a land war with Iran for so long. They even had that hilarious PowerPoint they showed Trump where they probably spent hours agonizing over how to most simply convey their point to the dumbest man to ever hold any elected office.

And it was just big fat black text on a white background (Times New Roman? Fucking lazy for how Israel gets depicted as masters of psyops and military shit) saying "IRAN LIED" because that was what they thought would work. On a fucking moron. And it still didn't.



No Iranian has ever done shit to me and we've fucked with them for decades. I would laud them for their restraint, but their behavior is normal considering that America is run by insane freaks who will gladly support Israel until the end of the world because they have religious beliefs that require Israel to exist so it can instigate the apocalypse.

We just exited Afghanistan after spending countless lives, trillions of dollars, two decades, and creating no lasting impact there. Yeah, I'd be restrained too if my enemy was an insane and obsessive weirdo with limitless money who seemingly has no goals or ability to think long term.

[Rugoz]

No Iranian has ever done shit to me and we've fucked with them for decades. I would laud them for their restraint

restraint my ass.

Iran attacks Israel all the fucking time through its proxy Hezbollah.

And when Israel hits back, namely killing one of the guys responsible, hiding in the embassy in Syria, Israel is supposed to be the bad guy.

Fuck the Mullahs. The only thing they're good at is spreading chaos in the ME and terrorizing their own people.

[Rich]

Personally I take a very dim view on the attack on the embassy as I took a very dim view on the Iranian Muslims taking diplomats hostage. I guess you could argue that the Israeli attack wasn't as bad, because it was attacking an embassy in a third country with which it didn't have diplomatic relations. but still attacking embassies is just something that should be avoided. Respect for diplomatic privilege is one aspect of so called international law that really should be respected.

However in addition Iran has issued fatwas against British citizens and residents. These are acts of war. Hence I have no problem at all with the British state attacking Iran and giving these Muslim terrorist types a taste of their own medicine.

[late]

Imagine paying $6/gallon because of the Iran attack on Israel? This is Biden's fault. He should have never banned oil drilling and he should have fired his energy secretary long ago when there was a big spike in gas prices. Also, the blame should also go to his defense secretary whose job is to increase wars and wreck the economy(although the president has the authority to declare war on another country).

So, we could end up in a worse recession because of one thing: skyrocketing gas prices as a result of the Iranian attack on Israel.

Ahh reality challenged...

We are not in a recession..

We are less vulnerable than a lot of places like Europe to oil price spikes. You are parroting Right wing crap about oil.

This day was coming since the 1960s, Biden has almost nothing to do with the cause..

You are going to have to say what you have against the DefSec, that's a new one for me.

[Rich]

An eye for an eye!

it is time we in Britain avenged Salmon Rushdie. Biden is a weak, senile decrepit leader who is treated with contempt by friend and foe alike. He has certainly delivered on his promise to undo Donald Trump's work and Make American Weak Again. We in Britain should take part in any Israeli attack whether Biden wants in or not.

[Rancid]

Given the Iran attack was largely stopped. This is another off ramp opportunity. Hopefully Israel does not escalate.

An eye for an eye!

it is time we in Britain avenged Salmon Rushdie. Biden is a weak, senile decrepit leader who is treated with contempt by friend and foe alike. He has certainly delivered on his promise to undo Donald Trump's work and Make American Weak Again. We in Britain should take part in any Israeli attack whether Biden wants in or not.

Donald Trump was the anti-war president though, remember?

Anyway, UK can go it alone on that one. BTW, an attack like that would be bad for Russia.

[late]

Given the Iran attack was largely stopped. This is another off ramp opportunity. Hopefully Israel does not escalate.



Donald Trump was the anti-war president though, remember?

Anyway, UK can go it alone on that one. BTW, an attack like that would be bad for Russia.

Is it just me or are the Rightys even more unhinged than usual? I suspect they know things are not going their way, and are reliving their Terrible Twos.

[Rancid]

Is it just me or are the Rightys even more unhinged than usual? I suspect they know things are not going their way, and are reliving their Terrible Twos.

Rich, while intelligent, has always been rather unhinged.

[Rich]

Is it just me or are the Rightys even more unhinged than usual? I suspect they know things are not going their way, and are reliving their Terrible Twos.

Joe Biden is basing his foreign /military policy around his reelection. Hence he wants to string out the Ukraine War and not admit defeat until after the November election. Similarly with Gaza, he's not trying to find any long term solution, just trying to make sure that any genocide or mass ethnic cleansing happens after his reelection. The Netanyahu-Gantz government actually seems pretty united over the war in Gaza, but Biden sees it in his electoral interest to blame everything on Netanyahu and try and interfere in Israeli democracy to remove Netanyahu.

So what says the Liberal if thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands have to die to ensure Biden's reelection, I have no problem with that. If the Apartheid system in Israel must be left unchallenged, while we cleave to the fantasy of the two state solution in order to get Biden reelected, so what? The problem is that Netanyahu is not likely to play ball. The problem is that so publicly seeking to overthrow Netanyahu is not wise. Netanyahu is not likely to sit back and let himself be undermined.

[wat0n]

I wonder if Israel will extract diplomatic and political concessions from the US on Gaza in exchange for not responding.

The fact that Jordan and seemingly Saudi Arabia participated in the interceptions should also make it easier for the Israeli public to trust the Sunni Arab states. This will be useful down the line.

[Rich]

The fact that Jordan and seemingly Saudi Arabia participated in the interceptions should also make it easier for the Israeli public to trust the Sunni Arab states. This will be useful down the line.

Trust them for what? Useful for what? The Sunni Arab states are not going to police your Arab bantustans for you. Israel was an Apartheid state before Hamas took over Gaza. Israel was an apartheid state before Hamas at least in this current form even existed. Even in the extremely unlikely event that Hamas is completely eradicated Israel will still be an apartheid state.

The 1967 borders certainly didn't give the Arabs "From the River to the Sea." But it did leave the Arabs, by my calculation less than 13km from the sea, Less than 13km from cutting Israel in 2. Now I know 2 state fantasists don't think that cutting Palestinian in 2 is a problem. Two State fantacists don't think that cutting Palestine into 2, 4, or even 24 non contiguous pieces is any problem what so ever for the long term viability of a stable, peaceful and prosperous Palestine.

Despite expecting this, nay demanding this off the Palestinian Uncle Toms, we know that most Israeli Jews do not view the prospect of being cut in two with equanimity. The 67 borders are a complete non starter. it might be helpful if you could tell us where the state border would actually be for this imaginary Palestine State by which you set such great store.

[wat0n]

Trust them for what? Useful for what? The Sunni Arab states are not going to police your Arab bantustans for you. Israel was an Apartheid state before Hamas took over Gaza. Israel was an apartheid state before Hamas at least in this current form even existed. Even in the extremely unlikely event that Hamas is completely eradicated Israel will still be an apartheid state.

The 1967 borders certainly didn't give the Arabs "From the River to the Sea." But it did leave the Arabs, by my calculation less than 13km from the sea, Less than 13km from cutting Israel in 2. Now I know 2 state fantasists don't think that cutting Palestinian in 2 is a problem. Two State fantacists don't think that cutting Palestine into 2, 4, or even 24 non contiguous pieces is any problem what so ever for the long term viability of a stable, peaceful and prosperous Palestine.

Despite expecting this, nay demanding this off the Palestinian Uncle Toms, we know that most Israeli Jews do not view the prospect of being cut in two with equanimity. The 67 borders are a complete non starter. it might be helpful if you could tell us where the state border would actually be for this imaginary Palestine State by which you set such great store.

One thing their participation can help with is to increase trust of the Sunni Arab states and seeing them as allies. With that, the case for holding onto the West Bank is really diminished.

And the Sunni Arab states have an obvious interest in extirpating all Iranian influence from Palestine, which in turn not only requires toppling Hamas - which Israel would need to do - but supporting Fatah if that happens, with boots on the ground if necessary.

[Rich]

which in turn not only requires toppling Hamas

I'm sorry, but you keep talking in this delusional language. Hamas were never going to be toppled. You could argue that Baathist rule was toppled in Basrah. You could perhaps say that Baathist rule was toppled in Baghdad, but even that is questionable. Baathist rule was certainly not toppled in Tikrit. Isis were not toppled in Syria. To claim it is so, is an insult to all the people that were not supporters of ISIS who had to suffer and be killed in the protracted campaign that it took to defeat them. Even then we could not simply pull out and leave the Sunni Arab communities to rule themselves, they had to be policed by Kurdish nationalists.

The Islamist and militant Arab nationalist ideologies will not be toppled in Gaza or the West Bank. We are not dealing with Ceausescu's Romania here. This is not like Communist rule in Poland. There will be no toppling. From Netanyahu's point of view, Hamas have one huge disadvantage. Hamas's domination over Gaza is completely blocking the growth of Islamic State in Gaza. Netanyahu probably hopes that if he can hit Hamas hard enough it will give an opportunity for ISIS to grow and establish itself.

[wat0n]

I'm sorry, but you keep talking in this delusional language. Hamas were never going to be toppled. You could argue that Baathist rule was toppled in Basrah. You could perhaps say that Baathist rule was toppled in Baghdad, but even that is questionable. Baathist rule was certainly not toppled in Tikrit. Isis were not toppled in Syria. To claim it is so, is an insult to all the people that were not supporters of ISIS who had to suffer and be killed in the protracted campaign that it took to defeat them. Even then we could not simply pull out and leave the Sunni Arab communities to rule themselves, they had to be policed by Kurdish nationalists.

The Islamist and militant Arab nationalist ideologies will not be toppled in Gaza or the West Bank. We are not dealing with Ceausescu's Romania here. This is not like Communist rule in Poland. There will be no toppling. From Netanyahu's point of view, Hamas have one huge disadvantage. Hamas's domination over Gaza is completely blocking the growth of Islamic State in Gaza. Netanyahu probably hopes that if he can hit Hamas hard enough it will give an opportunity for ISIS to grow and establish itself.

You should tell the people of Mosul or Raqqa ISIS still rules over them

[Rich]

You should tell the people of Mosul or Raqqa ISIS still rules over them

OK

1 ISIS's rule was ended
2 Therefore ISIS was toppled

This is faulty logic. Now the following could work logically.

1 ISIS was toppled
2 Therefore ISIS's rule was ended

This wasn't true in the case of ISIS, but it would be logically coherent. This is because "toppling a regime" is a subset of "removing a regime". But "removing a regime" is not a subset of "toppling a regime". I'm not sure what the issues is here, whether its one of language or logic. I am a fallible human being, no doubt I've got my blind spots. However I am a native speaker, I've been pretty good at maths, logic, IQ tests and the like and I don't think either love nor enmity towards any of the entities involved here is clouding my judgment on this matter.

[wat0n]

OK

1 ISIS's rule was ended
2 Therefore ISIS was toppled

This is faulty logic. Now the following could work logically.

1 ISIS was toppled
2 Therefore ISIS's rule was ended

This wasn't true in the case of ISIS, but it would be logically coherent. This is because "toppling a regime" is a subset of "removing a regime". But "removing a regime" is not a subset of "toppling a regime". I'm not sure what the issues is here, whether its one of language or logic. I am a fallible human being, no doubt I've got my blind spots. However I am a native speaker, I've been pretty good at maths, logic, IQ tests and the like and I don't think either love nor enmity towards any of the entities involved here is clouding my judgment on this matter.

Hamas won't just remove its government from Gaza, it needs to be toppled.

[late]

Joe Biden is basing his foreign /military policy around his reelection. Hence he wants to string out the Ukraine War and not admit defeat until after the November election.

Similarly with Gaza, he's not trying to find any long term solution, just trying to make sure that any genocide or mass ethnic cleansing happens after his reelection.

The Netanyahu-Gantz government actually seems pretty united over the war in Gaza, but Biden sees it in his electoral interest to blame everything on Netanyahu and try and interfere in Israeli democracy to remove Netanyahu.

So what says the Liberal if thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands have to die to ensure Biden's reelection, I have no problem with that. If the Apartheid system in Israel must be left unchallenged, while we cleave to the fantasy of the two state solution in order to get Biden reelected, so what? The problem is that Netanyahu is not likely to play ball. The problem is that so publicly seeking to overthrow Netanyahu is not wise. Netanyahu is not likely to sit back and let himself be undermined.

The Left is pissed off at him over Gaza, and his extreme support of Israel. You have things backwards.

There is no long term solution in Gaza. Or at least there isn't until Israel wants one. The mistake was getting directly involved in that mess in the first place, and that happened over 40 years ago.. (yeah, bass ackwards)

The people can't wait to get rid of him. He assembled a Far Right coalition, and they like him, big surprise.

Biden is not trying to overthrow Netanyahu. He is trying to keep a serious war from starting.

But thanks for demonstrating my point.

[wat0n]

I wish Biden was trying to overthrow Netanyahu. This attack makes it harder though.