Why do Americans automatically side with Ukraine over Russia? - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15311091
Rancid wrote:REminds me of a star strek episode where wars were fought in video games basically.

That said, both sides agreed to kill in real life, whoever was killed in the simulation. :eek:


I support the status quo. Full stop. I will never do anything to interrupt it. No notes, nothing needs to change.

I just think there's no reason for people to die for it when there are peaceful alternatives. If Kennedy had just gotten a Nerf arrow to the head while in his motorcade and said, "Ok, you got me," we would all be happier.
#15311558
late wrote:You're not the Doc, you're the other guy.

You don't seem to understand your own analogies.

late wrote:You keep predicting doom, you keep being wrong...


ME: predicting doom
DOCTOR: predicting doom (alcohol damage)

YOU: "hasn't happened yet."
ALCOHOLIC: "hasn't happened yet."

Do you see how I have the role of doctor in my discussion with you regarding how much longer Western Civ has? If you don't, then you have lost your ability to understand analogies.
.
#15311562
QatzelOk wrote:
You don't seem to understand your own analogies.



There are optimists and there are pessimists.

I was a pessimist for a very long time. One day I noticed that I kept being wrong, economics rarely did what I expected.

With some work, and a little luck, you will have a similar revelation.
#15311566
late wrote:There are optimists and there are pessimists.

I was a pessimist for a very long time. One day I noticed that I kept being wrong, economics rarely did what I expected...

Optimist-pessimist is a very simplistic way of dividing the myriad opinions out there. I realize that binary thinking is easier than complex thinking, but it is also dumb. In real life, many things are connected to once another, and the way that rich people have been playing fast-and-furious with the world's societies and resources... is coming to a big crash. This isn't just pessimism.

***

Being as optimistic as he can, SpecialOlympian wrote:...Peaceful war is in our reach. If we want it. .

This is from that boomer staple "War is over if you want it" courtesy of a well-known pop star with trendy hair.

The idea that "one" can have peace by simply "wanting it" makes really good media. It sells a lot of records. It allows people to smoke joints without feeling paranoia.

But here we are, 50 years later, and war is still right under our noses waiting to take us as well. So "optimism" is definitely the better marketing tool. If you're trying to sell something, sell it with optimism.

But trying to understand the human condition...? Optimism will keep you buying pop albums.

soundtrack
#15311570
QatzelOk wrote:
Optimist-pessimist is a very simplistic way of dividing the myriad opinions out there. I realize that binary thinking is easier than complex thinking, but it is also dumb.



It's human.

And it is dumb, but you are a pessimist, and I try not to be a pessimist.

Anyway, I have a book by an economist that is a pessimist. It's several hundred pages, and brilliant. One teeny tiny problem: he was wrong.

https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Fall-American-Growth-Princeton/dp/0691147728/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2NCJK06C8APDW&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.zER5E3Ipj1QhqlziI16opmeliKRJKyEawKTB0w5knyrsUS02457xMkNysN9AROQDhsg0qN_B13razfFMDdmBgljYCGF8HH57Ro8l_iTZkEBVWbBa4Q-asCjdUtrh2UUDvoeZiXOFM18KV211ByZZui2r3eTurzrjF9n8OMUSwTSW_TGeRZrubPf-AZzFVSsshzW6p3A4TJ5fIIJupcv0WFTeiA7fQQpBRh932n__jvk.s6ePpC-fcVSFoJjilV6f4VDrhS4RMQxHXC81TIcvBT4&dib_tag=se&keywords=rise+and+fall+of+american+growth&qid=1712768359&sprefix=rise+and+fall+of+american+growth%2Caps%2C114&sr=8-1
#15312595
Another reason that American media-viewers side with Ukraine is jealousy of Russia.

Russia's economy and international prestige are GROWING.

The West is SHRINKING and heading for some kind of collapse.


Overdose deaths last year

Russia 7,316 (half the USA's population)
China 49,000 (three times the USA population)
USA 112,000

...From 2019 to 2023, US life expectancy fell from 79 years to now 76. This figure is more at home among developing nations than those we consider advanced. Among developed US liberal peers, Germany’s current life expectancy is 82 years, UK 82, France 83, and so on.

Following a modest increase from 2022 to 2023, Chinese life expectancy now surpasses that of Americans, at 77 years, a historic first for China. Russia, which is fighting a brutal war in Ukraine, still saw an increase in life expectancy from 2022 to 2023: 72 to 73.

Returning to 2003 numbers, the American life expectancy was 77, while China’s was 73 and Russia’s 65...


https://www.unz.com/estriker/the-collap ... ographics/

***
#15312597
QatzelOk wrote:Another reason that American media-viewers side with Ukraine is jealousy of Russia.

Russia's economy and international prestige are GROWING.

The West is SHRINKING and heading for some kind of collapse.


Overdose deaths last year

Russia 7,316 (half the USA's population)
China 49,000 (three times the USA population)
USA 112,000



https://www.unz.com/estriker/the-collap ... ographics/

***


That is interesting why do you think that is?
#15312599
Tainari88 wrote:That is interesting why do you think that is?

It's the Elite of the USA that is "jealous" of Russia. The plebs just "hate" whomever their media master tells them to. Like dogs responding to their master's hatred of others.

And the Elite also hate Russia for long-term racism-related reasons. The Slavs were supposed to be happy serfs, buying alcohol and taking out high-interest loans from them (when they lived in Russia and other Eastern European countries).

The stats show that the USA is heading for the kind of collapse that Russia is finally recovering from. And Russia, China, and Iran are forging alliances with the rest of the world... while the West has always treated these other countries as potential colonies that could be exploited.

Instead, these countries are poised to pass the West on many levels, and our Elites and general population are too nasty or ignorant to change our downward trajectory.
#15312604
QatzelOk wrote:
It's the Elite of the USA that is "jealous" of Russia. The plebs just "hate" whomever their media master tells them to. Like dogs responding to their master's hatred of others.

And the Elite also hate Russia for long-term racism-related reasons. The Slavs were supposed to be happy serfs, buying alcohol and taking out high-interest loans from them (when they lived in Russia and other Eastern European countries).

The stats show that the USA is heading for the kind of collapse that Russia is finally recovering from. And Russia, China, and Iran are forging alliances with the rest of the world... while the West has always treated these other countries as potential colonies that could be exploited.

Instead, these countries are poised to pass the West on many levels, and our Elites and general population are too nasty or ignorant to change our downward trajectory.



Remember this, Qatzy.


'cause it's funny, but mostly cause it's wrong.
#15312633
QatzelOk wrote:It's the Elite of the USA that is "jealous" of Russia. The plebs just "hate" whomever their media master tells them to. Like dogs responding to their master's hatred of others.

And the Elite also hate Russia for long-term racism-related reasons. The Slavs were supposed to be happy serfs, buying alcohol and taking out high-interest loans from them (when they lived in Russia and other Eastern European countries).

The stats show that the USA is heading for the kind of collapse that Russia is finally recovering from. And Russia, China, and Iran are forging alliances with the rest of the world... while the West has always treated these other countries as potential colonies that could be exploited.

Instead, these countries are poised to pass the West on many levels, and our Elites and general population are too nasty or ignorant to change our downward trajectory.


I like what Chomsky has stated about Manufacturing Consent. People need to deal with that reality. But it will not be an easy path Q. That is for sure.

To tell you the truth I am happy to be here in Mexico. My neighbor is a guy with an old beat up car in the front of his house and some banana plants. He has a big sign endorsing the woman socialist scientist as president. I asked him why we was voting for her? He told me, 'results. The other politicians before Morena never sent me a check in the mail, no one gave me free meds, or food baskets or any real benefits. This government does. I am voting for them again. She is my candidate.'

It is that simple. Change has to be real benefits for ordinary people. Not bullshit. That is reality.
#15312648
Tainari88 wrote:I like what Chomsky has stated about Manufacturing Consent. People need to deal with that reality. But it will not be an easy path Q. That is for sure. ...


Yes Chomsky - the Pepsi-Cola professor of Linguistics - warns people to live according to reality. He lives by Pepsi-Cola donations and guaranteed press darling status.

The "reality" that he warns his readers to stay in... will be interrupted about 100 times in a day by texts that are produced by the same group who produced Noam Chomsky. In other words, he is there to play the "good cop" while millions of his contemporaries play "MK Ultra-media owner" cop.
#15312653
QatzelOk wrote:Yes Chomsky - the Pepsi-Cola professor of Linguistics - warns people to live according to reality. He lives by Pepsi-Cola donations and guaranteed press darling status.

The "reality" that he warns his readers to stay in... will be interrupted about 100 times in a day by texts that are produced by the same group who produced Noam Chomsky. In other words, he is there to play the "good cop" while millions of his contemporaries play "MK Ultra-media owner" cop.


So who do you think gives objective truths? I am curious Q.
#15312663
Re: Why do Americans automatically side with Ukraine over Russia?


Ignorance of the history that caused the war - The U.S. coup in Ukraine in 2014 - and the propaganda blitz leading up to Russia's entry in the Donbass following the eight years of genocide against the people living in that area, by the Ukrainian government.

It worked on loads of people, that propaganda blitz. Remember when they all had the Ukraine flag in their social media profile pics? A week before they had no idea of the colour of the Ukraine flag. Today, you hardly see it anywhere..

albionfagan wrote:The exposing of the hypocrisy of 'tankies' is none more evident than the Ukraine war. I am in no way a supporter of the United States of America, a country which has caused untold havoc around the globe for decades now. However, Russia is the other cheek of that arse. A bullying, cajoling and wounded nation that wants to throw its weight around in its near region. It has been that way for centuries and this war is just a continuation of that. That doesn't mean the USA are innocent (NATO expansion was a great provocation) but I hope Ukraine wins this war.


The tankies are always right and have been proven so again with this war. It's what happens when you look into the context of conflicts, what led up to them, etc. I mean, you even admit to some of that context with the NATO expansion provocation. You ignore though, like many of you who got it wrong on Ukraine, that the Russians tried the peace route for years before entering, including a month or so after their entry.

QatzelOk wrote:Yes Chomsky - the Pepsi-Cola professor of Linguistics - warns people to live according to reality. He lives by Pepsi-Cola donations and guaranteed press darling status.

The "reality" that he warns his readers to stay in... will be interrupted about 100 times in a day by texts that are produced by the same group who produced Noam Chomsky. In other words, he is there to play the "good cop" while millions of his contemporaries play "MK Ultra-media owner" cop.


Agreed, Qatz. Chomsky is an anticommunist pig who supports imperialism (Syria) in some places, offers the 'vote blue no matter who' every few years and supported segregation of people who refused to be forced into taking experimental medication in the form of mRNA jabs.

Granted, he taught me a lot about geopolitics when I was first learning about the world. But then I learned he fucking sucks on close inspection..

Tainari88 wrote:So who do you think gives objective truths? I am curious Q.


Try Michael Parenti's Inventing Reality instead. Or any of his work.

Parenti > Chomsky.
#15312677
Agent Steel wrote:As many of you know, not long ago, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a full scale invasion against Ukraine.

Almost immediately, US media reports painted Putin as a tyrant, and encouraged nationwide support for Ukraine, the presumed victim, and Russia, as the presumed aggressor.

But why?

Does Russia not have the right to fight back against the incursion onto their territory by the United Nations? Why is the UN allowed to constantly sanction aggressive tactics against their enemies but the moment Russia does the same thing, the whole world gets upset?

It seems like the majority of Americans just immediately assume that Russia is in the wrong without any foreknowledge of all of the events that CAUSED such an invasion. The American media presents a narrative, and the average schmuck gobbles it up and supports it. I do not understand why Americans are so gullible and susceptible to this type of mass-scale control.

Why do Americans automatically side with Ukraine over Russia?


The U.S. has been playing both sides: its Presidents focused on NATO enlargement to protect the dollar,

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_222258.htm

even though its own officials also warned that that would lead to red lines crossed and unintended consequences:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/01/18 ... r-ukraine/

and then later tried to pull similar stunts by getting Russia to join NATO:

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/n ... join-nato/

while also manipulating Ukraine:

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/n ... -road-map/
#15313009
Tainari88 wrote:So who do you think gives objective truths? I am curious Q.


The mass media and universities... don't have the right to give out objective truths. They are confined to tell the stories that their sponsors approve of.

And I don't blame Noam Chomsky for being a fallible human being who has great ideas every once in a while. I blame the messiah-seekers for trying to turn people like him (and Elvis Presley, and Kurt Cobain, and Michael Jackson, and John Kerry...) into messiahs, when they are just ordinary people.

Americans side with their mass media and their press darlings because ... this is what they are fed by Bankster Media.
#15313013
QatzelOk wrote:The mass media and universities... don't have the right to give out objective truths. They are confined to tell the stories that their sponsors approve of.

And I don't blame Noam Chomsky for being a fallible human being who has great ideas every once in a while. I blame the messiah-seekers for trying to turn people like him (and Elvis Presley, and Kurt Cobain, and Michael Jackson, and John Kerry...) into messiahs, when they are just ordinary people.

Americans side with their mass media and their press darlings because ... this is what they are fed by Bankster Media.


Well, I like reading texts now in Spanish from Mayans and from Spaniards and from French archaeologists and from many perspectives Q. Once you do? You might be able to detect some consensus about certain things and why they have consensus eh?

I am headed to Archaeology Mondays at the Merida English Library today. I have not gone for a while due to my illness. But I feel slightly better today. I am going to be there. They give updates on the latest discoveries.
#15313015
Tainari88 wrote:Well, I like reading texts now in Spanish from Mayans and from Spaniards and from French archaeologists and from many perspectives Q. Once you do? You might be able to detect some consensus about certain things and why they have consensus eh?

I am headed to Archaeology Mondays at the Merida English Library today. I have not gone for a while due to my illness. But I feel slightly better today. I am going to be there. They give updates on the latest discoveries.


I get most of my media in French, so the perspectives are very different. Algerian media, Iranian media in French, radical student media from French universities etc.

I don't have a lot of respect for American philosophy or thought because it is mostly career-oriented, or ass-kissing-the-elites related.

Noam Chomsky did a lot of great work with linguistics... about 60 years ago. Since that time, he has come to be "The Smart American" in alternative media and on campuses. It's like he has been made out to be a giant brain living among ignorant snipers.
#15313017
QatzelOk wrote:I get most of my media in French, so the perspectives are very different. Algerian media, Iranian media in French, radical student media from French universities etc.

I don't have a lot of respect for American philosophy or thought because it is mostly career-oriented, or ass-kissing-the-elites related.

Noam Chomsky did a lot of great work with linguistics... about 60 years ago. Since that time, he has come to be "The Smart American" in alternative media and on campuses. It's like he has been made out to be a giant brain living among ignorant snipers.


My father graduated in linguistics a long time ago Q. And he studied Chomsky. A lot of interesting work in linguistics.

He is an anarchist. He also lived or tried to live in a Kibbutz in Israel. He found it hard to get along with the others because he said they all tended to not be contrarian and he questioned everything.

Chomsky has an undercurrent of intense lack of confrontation of the system. I think it was about survival.

There are many great intellectuals who never made it in academia because they were ostracized and punished severely. The more reaction you get from the mainstream probably the better you are in thinking critically and the more truthful your criticism for it. People really want to believe in their myths, fantasies and lies. And woe to the person who shakes that up.

The French have an excellent tradition of independent thought in everything.

You can find really creative political thought in French media sources and also literature of all sorts.

There is a very strong lack of respect for government in many things in France. What the French respect far more are the creative parts of their culture. The ones that are always looking for something new among the most well-rooted traditions.

I really do not know much about French Canadian history either Q. I never studied Canadian history at all. Just passing knowledge about it.

I have learned some new things from you over the years. I appreciate it.

I have always identified with how my mother described herself. She was born in a small rural town in Puerto Rico and she was poor. And came from campesinos or Puerto Rican rural people. She moved to New York City when she was young. I think she was 7 years old when she got there. She lived there for 13 years. Went through a lot of struggles. But she wound up back home on the island where I was born and my older sister too.

She was an outstanding student and very politically active and involved. She was asked many times to be the leader. It never was her personal ambition to be a leader. However, everyone noticed her abilities and pressured her into leadership roles. It cost her a lot of time and sacrifice. She was extraordinarily intelligent and dedicated. But also she was down to earth and very humble. For her she was always from the Latin American working class and peasant class. And she had a very hard-won education and she was driven to learn her entire life.

Every pressure and obstacle was a really great opportunity to serve the ones at the bottom there.

She died how she lived. With integrity and got tremendous respect from many people. From all walks of life.

It is a beautiful day. I think she would have liked you Q.

You are a handsome man. No matter how old you get. But more importantly, you have an unconventional mindset.

C'est un plaisir de vous lire et aussi de vous comprendre.
#15313018
QatzelOk wrote:I get most of my media in French, so the perspectives are very different. Algerian media, Iranian media in French, radical student media from French universities etc.

I don't have a lot of respect for American philosophy or thought because it is mostly career-oriented, or ass-kissing-the-elites related.

Noam Chomsky did a lot of great work with linguistics... about 60 years ago. Since that time, he has come to be "The Smart American" in alternative media and on campuses. It's like he has been made out to be a giant brain living among ignorant snipers.


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